Richmond

[WriterDom]

Anyone with knowledge of this fine city, please advise a northern boy on where to go, what to see, and any classic eats.

Why stop there? Go all the way to Florida. The head west through LA. (lower Alabama) across Mississippi to New Orleans. Do it in July and come back and tell us Washington DC is the hottest place in the country.

 

[intothewoods]

Why stop there? Go all the way to Florida. The head west through LA. (lower Alabama) across Mississippi to New Orleans. Do it in July and come back and tell us Washington DC is the hottest place in the country.

I think you're still mad about that cotton candy comment.

 

[WriterDom]

I think you're still mad about that cotton candy comment.

What cotton candy comment?

I remember cotton candy. So sticky.

 

[00Syd]

Had the south won won would you be apologetic?

The only difference I see between the US and the Confederacy is one won their war for independence and the other lost.

And the winners get to write the history books.

*shrug* fuck if I know. I was just relaying a strange experience for me, not trying to make some sweeping argument or accusation.

 

[WriterDom]

*shrug* fuck if I know. I was just relaying a strange experience for me, not trying to make some sweeping argument or accusation.

Eh, it was just a statement. I didn't mean for you to take it personal.

We even have a Southern Mt. Rushmore.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stone_mountain_closeup_mosaic.jpg

 

[00Syd]

Eh, it was just a statement. I didn't mean for you to take it personal.

We even have a Southern Mt. Rushmore.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stone_mountain_closeup_mosaic.jpg

Wow that's awesome, haha. I never heard of that before.

 

[andrewgoogle]

I live in Richmond. It's a great city. The recommendations are right on the mark. Momument Avenue is awesome with all it's statues. The Museum of the Confederacy and the Confederate White House are not to be missed. I certainly don't agree with their viewpoint, but historically they are significant. I would also encourage you to stop by and see Hollywood Cemetery. If cemeteries don't creep you out - this one is awesome. Beautiful monuments. Full of the famous dead.

 

[sinnocence]

Eh, it was just a statement. I didn't mean for you to take it personal.

We even have a Southern Mt. Rushmore.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Stone_mountain_closeup_mosaic.jpg

Oh yeah. I've been to Stone Mountain so many times with my aunt living in Atlanta. That place is pretty cool. Especially taking the skyride up to the top and the laser light show around Christmas.

 

[WriterDom]

Yeah I haven't been in many years. I liked the train ride that came under attack.


President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson (and their favorite horses, "Blackjack," "Traveler," and "Little Sorrel," respectively).

 

[JMohegan]

It was all from the POV of The War of Northern Aggression, at least insofar as our tour guide saw it. I was, I dunno, 14 at the time, and it was the first time I had seen the Civil War talked about in such an unapologetic manner, from that POV, after years of Yankee teachings of the war. I remember it as being a little jarring.

I've had sensitivity training, here on the boards, so I'm sure I'll be fine.

 

[JMohegan]

There's a hotel - The Jefferson. It's really nice inside.

Oh my - nice indeed.

I'm gonna look for Scarlett on that staircase.

 

[JMohegan]

That BBQ place at Boulevard and Broad is good.

Walk through the Fan on a nice day, Monument ave.

The Fan District - seems aptly named.

I love BBQ, but don't eat pig. If I'm nearby and they've got chicken, I'll check it out - thanks.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm gonna be down there next month visiting the folks in the Fan. I'd stand you to a drink if we overlapped.

I think you are best off in Richmond with a nice weekend, a historical guidebook and your legs. It's a nice, old, run-down city that sort of got started gentrifying but never really took off and the history is right under the surface.

 

[JMohegan]

Had the south won won would you be apologetic?

The only difference I see between the US and the Confederacy is one won their war for independence and the other lost.

And the winners get to write the history books.

After winning its war for independence, it took the US roughly 80 years to abolish slavery. In the interim, the North was complicit in that abomination in many ways. Nobody's white American ancestors' hands are entirely clean.

WD, how long do you think the Confederacy would have maintained the institution of slavery, had they won their war for independence? If the South were writing the history books on this subject, what would they say?

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wow - this and this look wonderful.

I'll definitely go there, no matter the weather. Thank you so much, osg!

glad to be of help! the grounds, fountains, wildlife, beautiful old trees...are all amazing. and it very easy to find little hidden, out of the way spots where you can just BE. Daddy and i have some very precious memories tied to that park.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm gonna be down there next month visiting the folks in the Fan. I'd stand you to a drink if we overlapped.

I think you are best off in Richmond with a nice weekend, a historical guidebook and your legs. It's a nice, old, run-down city that sort of got started gentrifying but never really took off and the history is right under the surface.

I'll be there tomorrow and Friday.

As far as I can tell, once downtown legs will take me where I want to go. Weather's calling for rain Thursday, which will have an impact on my photography more than anything else.

Maybe we can have that drink next time I'm in the Big Apple.

 

[JMohegan]

I live in Richmond. It's a great city. The recommendations are right on the mark. Momument Avenue is awesome with all it's statues. The Museum of the Confederacy and the Confederate White House are not to be missed. I certainly don't agree with their viewpoint, but historically they are significant. I would also encourage you to stop by and see Hollywood Cemetery. If cemeteries don't creep you out - this one is awesome. Beautiful monuments. Full of the famous dead.

Thanks, Andrew.

Cemeteries don't creep me out at all. Some are fascinating, and many quite lovely. The Normandy American Cemetery, for example, is one of the most dramatic places on earth.

 

[JMohegan]

What cotton candy comment?

I remember cotton candy. So sticky.

Melts in the rain, was the point.

 

[WriterDom]

After winning its war for independence, it took the US roughly 80 years to abolish slavery. In the interim, the North was complicit in that abomination in many ways. Nobody's white American ancestors' hands are entirely clean.

WD, how long do you think the Confederacy would have maintained the institution of slavery, had they won their war for independence? If the South were writing the history books on this subject, what would they say?

Honestly I don't know. I don't think the south would have integrated when they did without looking down the barrel of a federal tank. It scares me to think about the whole issue of gay marriage coming to a head down here. 90% or more of the people outside of metro areas are against that here.

 

[JMohegan]

Honestly I don't know. I don't think the south would have integrated when they did without looking down the barrel of a federal tank. It scares me to think about the whole issue of gay marriage coming to a head down here. 90% or more of the people outside of metro areas are against that here.

From my perspective, this is where your comment about "the only difference I see" starts to break down.

Speaking about the history of America as a whole, I'd say we've accomplished many great things and created a society of extraordinary values and worth. But I'd also say that at times we've seriously and inexcusably screwed up. Slavery, Trail of Tears, Japanese American internment, turning away European Jews in the middle of WWII, segregation and Jim Crow laws and the fact that people had to be literally beaten to death on national TV before most of the country even noticed much less gave a fuck. Etc.

The part about the memorialization of the Old South that seems so bizarre to me is the portrayal of antebellum southerners as members of some wonderful society, who became victims of ruthless northern aggression as they fought gloriously for independence - with scant acknowledgment that antebellum white southerners were ruthless oppressors themselves, or that the antebellum black southerner's viewpoint should be included to balance the retrospective.

I'm looking at the list of statues on Monument Ave and thinking that Ashe is a strange choice for that particular location. A Virginia counterpart to Tubman or Douglass would seem to represent a more balancing and appropriate fit.

 

[BiBunny]

Not only that, JM, but you have to remember that slave-owning rich whites accounted for a very small percentage of the population in the pre-war South. Poor whites were getting screwed just as hard as black slaves, albeit in different ways.

I have a weird fascination with the antebellum South for some reason, but maybe everyone who grew up here does.

 

[WriterDom]

From my perspective, this is where your comment about "the only difference I see" starts to break down.

Speaking about the history of America as a whole, I'd say we've accomplished many great things and created a society of extraordinary values and worth. But I'd also say that at times we've seriously and inexcusably screwed up. Slavery, Trail of Tears, Japanese American internment, turning away European Jews in the middle of WWII, segregation and Jim Crow laws and the fact that people had to be literally beaten to death on national TV before most of the country even noticed much less gave a fuck. Etc.

The part about the memorialization of the Old South that seems so bizarre to me is the portrayal of antebellum southerners as members of some wonderful society, who became victims of ruthless northern aggression as they fought gloriously for independence - with scant acknowledgment that antebellum white southerners were ruthless oppressors themselves, or that the antebellum black southerner's viewpoint should be included to balance the retrospective.

I'm looking at the list of statues on Monument Ave and thinking that Ashe is a strange choice for that particular location. A Virginia counterpart to Tubman or Douglass would seem to represent a more balancing and appropriate fit.

I think slavery would have become obsolete. Would you rather buy a tractor that could do more in one day than 50 slaves or slaves you have to clothe and feed the entire year? It might be nice to have a house slave if you had the money. People still do that kind of thing. They rent rather than buy. And the house help can quit if they like.

But this has little to do with Richmond.

 

[Homburg]

After winning its war for independence, it took the US roughly 80 years to abolish slavery. In the interim, the North was complicit in that abomination in many ways. Nobody's white American ancestors' hands are entirely clean.

WD, how long do you think the Confederacy would have maintained the institution of slavery, had they won their war for independence? If the South were writing the history books on this subject, what would they say?

I've read a few accounts that posited slavery was on its' way out anyway. Those accounts tended to be South-friendly though, and worked on the supposition that the war was more about state's right versus a strong central govt, and that slavery was just the issue used to sell the North on why it should send so many of its' sons to die in the South instead of just letting the rebel states go.

The problem is that there is an awful lot of revisionism going on, trying to see these people through the lens of modern morality and ethics, and projecting our thoughts and views on them.

Personally, slavery was on its' way out. The War Between the States simply hastened its' deserved demise.

Note: I use "War Between the States" because "Civil War" is wholly inaccurate (no one was attempting to overthrow the US govt), and "War of Northern Aggression" is callow.

Note, part deux: I started this earlier today and apparently forgot to hit send before I left.

 

[Homburg]

The part about the memorialization of the Old South that seems so bizarre to me is the portrayal of antebellum southerners as members of some wonderful society, who became victims of ruthless northern aggression as they fought gloriously for independence - with scant acknowledgment that antebellum white southerners were ruthless oppressors themselves, or that the antebellum black southerner's viewpoint should be included to balance the retrospective.

Not too many antebellum black southerners were literate and getting published.

I'm looking at the list of statues on Monument Ave and thinking that Ashe is a strange choice for that particular location. A Virginia counterpart to Tubman or Douglass would seem to represent a more balancing and appropriate fit.

Ashe was born and raised in Richmond, was literally one of the best tennis players of all time, and was quite active in the civil rights movement throughout his life. Monument Ave may have been conceived as a place to honour Confederate figures, but it has wound up a place to honour great Virginians. Ashe's inclusion caused one helluva stir when it happened, but, honestly, I'm happy to see him accorded such an honour (even if he would likely have been displeased with his fellows on site).

As an aside, Ashe was laid to rest in state in the Governor's mansion. The last time that happened? Yeah, Stonewall Jackson. Richmond LOVED Arthur Ashe.

 

[JMohegan]

Not only that, JM, but you have to remember that slave-owning rich whites accounted for a very small percentage of the population in the pre-war South. Poor whites were getting screwed just as hard as black slaves, albeit in different ways.

Poor white trash killed Scarlett's mother, and tried to steal Tara too!

I'd dispute the notion of equivalence, but acknowledge your broader point.

I have a weird fascination with the antebellum South for some reason, but maybe everyone who grew up here does.

Really? In what ways does your fascination manifest itself?