Responsibility and Control

[MissTaken]

For several days, now, I have been thinking about these two aspects to BDSM.

Many of us are open about how we love to be bound and at his bidding so as leave the responsibilities of our chaotic, fast paced lives behind.

But, in so doing, can you really give him control?
What if he or she decides to introduce a toy to your play that you are uncertain about. Perhaps, a flogger or cane.

Can you give over control to the degree that he or she really is able to do as they will with you?

Even if you feel fear and anxiety at the thought or introduction?

Can you trust his or her directions, suggestions to the degree to which you can do so even though you aren't in agreement?

Dominants?
While my thoughts are a bit scattered, I look forward to your input as well.

What is the difference between responsibility and control and at what point is the total submission possible?

 

[WynEternal]

During my time with my Mistress, many of my aversions and fears were calmed. I trusted her totally. Anything less would probably have sent me running and screaming.

When she first used the flogger on me, I was very much uncertain of what my response would be to it. But I trusted her to know what she was doing and she did. Actually it was through her that I was introduced to everything else, crops, canes, buttplugs. The only thing not included in that was my virginity, but I wasn't out of that by much.

Why did I put so much trust in her? We spoke at great lengths about what what my experiences were and what I thought my limits were. Nothing happened all at once. It was gradual over time.

I gave her control, but we also made it safe for me to say when it was too much. She was there to calm me down and soothe my fears.

If I didn't trust her, I don't think I would ever have been (as James mentioned once) naked in a parking lot.

 

[Lancecastor]

I've read in more than a few places that the funny thing about D/s play is that when you get right down to it there is no dominance without a submissive saying "yes, please" in some way, specifically or tacitly.....so the simple answer is that all D/s requires a trusting s and a tuned in D.

As with any relationship, you get to know each other and trust within unspoken specifics based on past trust building.

More than once I've picked up a woman somewhere and taken her somewhere for a weekend as a total surprise to her...no advance knowledge or planning shared.

Half the fun for her is letting herself be taken up by it. Half the fun for him is in doing what he believes they will both enjoy. Any surprise between partners is, in that sense, a D/s activity.

All relationships are a fluid D/s dance in my view even if the pair have never heard of BDSM...because there is a never ending ebb and flow of responsibility and control by way of power exchange, right down to selecting the groceries in the other's absence.

To the extent that a couple highlites and pleasurizes any power exchange speaks to their ability to know each other more deeply and have fun in the process.

JMHO

Lance

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I could see it happening that I introduce something that might stretch the boundaies of trust...the key is being sensitive enough to know the difference between "oh no, I don't think I can do that" and 'please fucking stop because I am scared and/or hurting'. It is a fine line, but one that is visible if you are sensitive and actually care about the other person. You can pull out teh giant dildo or teh flogger, and realize that it is going too far too soon...and you can use it as a mind game, rather than actually use it. You shouldn't force its full use on someone, even a sub is still a human being with feelings and limits.

 

[lark sparrow]

I have to agree with much of what has been said. Although the Domme I belong to has the power to "make" me do as She wishes, when it comes down to it She also usually wants my desire and active participation beyond forcing me to do something simply because She can. Some things She desires are absolutely non-negotiable, many other things are to a certain extent - She decides what those are.

The control and responsibility are bound together, and include both of us. On my part, I would really need to make an effort to control my fear and anxiety towards the new introduction, to be responsible for my submission, or if it was too great, openly and honestly acknowledge it to Her and let Her make the decision about whether or not to carry on. Sometimes She feels my fears are valid and will change path to an extent, other times She sees reason to push past them.

There are few things worse in the relationship than feeling as though I have let Her down when it wasn't necessary. Some people say the submissive has the bottomline control, but if so, only at the high cost of no longer submitting. So, again the Dominance and submission must compliment eachother, must work together as a single unit in some ways. I'm not sure perfect submission exists, but I believe total submission does, within the bounds of an imperfect world and imperfect but evolving people, within the balance between control/responsibility which marks consensual D/s... if that makes sense.

 

[Goddess Helena]

For Me

Building a base of mutual faith, trust and affection is always the key. I need My boy to believe in Me before anything can happen. I need to have faith in him and his submission. I think part of My job as a Domme is to gently push limits. To introduce toys and methods that he is not familar with, to help him grow. O/our bond helps to assure that he will trust Me enough to let Me do as I wish. I have found that being on the same page with My pet helps greatly. As does being affectionate with him. He is a valued pet and needs to be reminded of that from time to time. Being able to read My boy helps me to see how he is reacting to what I am doing to him and how he is dealing with it. My goal is never to break him. While I could always make him to submit to My will, I would rather move slowly and have him begging and grateful.
I think because of the type of relationship that My boy and I had, he very rarely had trouble submitting to Me. When he did, it was because he wanted a spanking, not because I was pushing too hard.


Helena

 

[jon.hayworth]

For several days, now, I have been thinking about these two aspects to BDSM.

Many of us are open about how we love to be bound and at his bidding so as leave the responsibilities of our chaotic, fast paced lives behind.

But, in so doing, can you really give him control?
What if he or she decides to introduce a toy to your play that you are uncertain about. Perhaps, a flogger or cane.

Can you give over control to the degree that he or she really is able to do as they will with you?

Even if you feel fear and anxiety at the thought or introduction?

You are stating one of the most complex problems that runs through Dom Sub relationships - I guess the key phrase you used was -

Can you trust his or her directions, suggestions to the degree to which you can do so even though you aren't in agreement?

In my opinion it is this trust that the Sub has in the Dom and the Dom must earn from the Sub, that differentiates between a Dom Sub relationship and a relationship that would be termed abusive.

In our relationships "NO" does not always mean "NO", whereas in a Vanilla relationship "NO" has to be taken on its face value. OK most of us use "Safe Words" as substitutes for "NO", but my guess is that what MissTaken had in mind was when a couple felt so confident that they felt able to dispose of those mechanisms.

My Sub and I tried that out, and I think if anything I did not push her as far as I would have done if we had been using a Safe Word - why - Because I felt a greater degree of responsibility for her welfare than I do when we have our Safety in place.

I don't know if any of this helps.

jon

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: For Me

Building a base of mutual faith, trust and affection is always the key. I need My boy to believe in Me before anything can happen. I need to have faith in him and his submission. I think part of My job as a Domme is to gently push limits. To introduce toys and methods that he is not familar with, to help him grow. O/our bond helps to assure that he will trust Me enough to let Me do as I wish. I have found that being on the same page with My pet helps greatly. As does being affectionate with him. He is a valued pet and needs to be reminded of that from time to time. Being able to read My boy helps me to see how he is reacting to what I am doing to him and how he is dealing with it. My goal is never to break him. While I could always make him to submit to My will, I would rather move slowly and have him begging and grateful.
I think because of the type of relationship that My boy and I had, he very rarely had trouble submitting to Me. When he did, it was because he wanted a spanking, not because I was pushing too hard.


Helena

On the flip side, I have different kinds of relationships with my subs, in that we are not exclusive or romantically involved, and I have never had a problem with trust. My subs trust me also, and they submit to all I desire with am open heart, mind, and body.

But I spend hours, weeks, days, and some times months getting to know them, and allowing them to get to know Me. Friendship, and high regard, and trust develops.

Eb

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Re: Re: For Me

On the flip side, I have different kinds of relationships with my subs, in that we are not exclusive or romantically involved, and I have never had a problem with trust. My subs trust me also, and they submit to all I desire with am open heart, mind, and body.

But I spend hours, weeks, days, and some times months getting to know them, and allowing them to get to know Me. Friendship, and high regard, and trust develops.

Eb

Are there certain things you desire from some subs and not others, based on their personality and limits? Or do you specifically choose people who have few if any limits?

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: Responsibility and Control

You are stating one of the most complex problems that runs through Dom Sub relationships - I guess the key phrase you used was -

Can you trust his or her directions, suggestions to the degree to which you can do so even though you aren't in agreement?

My Sub and I tried that out, and I think if anything I did not push her as far as I would have done if we had been using a Safe Word - why - Because I felt a greater degree of responsibility for her welfare than I do when we have our Safety in place.

I don't know if any of this helps.

jon

Hmm something to think about.

I suppose I never considered the freedom that a safeword gives a Dom/me.

Thanks for making me think and smile

 

[MissTaken]

All relationships are a fluid D/s dance in my view even if the pair have never heard of BDSM...because there is a never ending ebb and flow of responsibility and control by way of power exchange, right down to selecting the groceries in the other's absence.

To the extent that a couple highlites and pleasurizes any power exchange speaks to their ability to know each other more deeply and have fun in the process.

JMHO

Lance

I have always appreciated the analogy of relationships as a "dance." I do believe you have posted this before and I , for one, totally agree. Two people complement one another, trust one another, one without the other is lost. Imagine the Tango being performed without a partner!

I do believe that total submission and trust is possible, after time. Of course, my idea of D.s is romanticized and perhaps a bit naive, but it is mine. In time, after being together, sharing life as well as love and playtime, two people learn to recognize one another's needs, cues and weaknesses. Then, I believe a sub could lie, bound completely helpless and say, "I am yours, do as you will" with reservation, fear or anxst.

Yes, I have given myself in that fashion. My trust was so intense that he lead me to a room wherein the only visible items were a chair and a riding crop. This scene was intense and took down many walls, barriers and introduced me to many activities that I had, at one time, made hard limits.

My thinking is that we often encourage people entering the lifestyle to communicate. Communication goes far beyond words and extends into that communication that only the two will be able to translate. Also, perhaps, vis a vis communication behind the wall of the internet, people seeking D/s through on line services, over communicate.

I give him a list of do's and don'ts and he follows them when we meet. Hmmm then, who is in control?

For me, I don't want it, don't need and need to give complete and total control away.

Just babbling in my usual, "Oh MY God those kids have worn me out today" manner!

 

[MissTaken]

Re: Re: Responsibility and Control

There are few things worse in the relationship than feeling as though I have let Her down when it wasn't necessary. Some people say the submissive has the bottomline control, but if so, only at the high cost of no longer submitting. So, again the Dominance and submission must compliment eachother, must work together as a single unit in some ways. I'm not sure perfect submission exists, but I believe total submission does, within the bounds of an imperfect world and imperfect but evolving people, within the balance between control/responsibility which marks consensual D/s... if that makes sense.

Hmmm And you, larksparrow! Are making me rethink!!!!

I have been one to advise novice subs that they actually do have control.
Your post is making me wonder if I am incorrect.

If I truly want to please Him and face the fear of disappointing him, doesn' HE have the control?

Hmmm I will have to think further on this and on your post.

 

[MissTaken]

Johnny!

It is good to see you here! Oh Gosh! I am busted again. Now, you will see my darker side, the side I do try to keep away from the GB


Enjoy!



Wyn...your remarks concernng the flogger hit very close to home. It was exactly my first scene with a flogger that comes to mind with this thread. I used to poo poo floggers, riding crops and any other seemingly "painful" implement. So, when blindfolded and feeling the tendrils of the flogger caressing my body, later to feel it's pressure as it swatted me, I was afraid, excited, nervous, excited and ultimately, I loved it.

I had truly submitted.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Johnny!

It is good to see you here! Oh Gosh! I am busted again. Now, you will see my darker side, the side I do try to keep away from the GB


Enjoy!

Thanks for the welcome...dark sides are the more interesting parts of a person!

 

[BlondGirl]

A very dear friend who has been my mentor in this journey of depravity describes this topic as such:

"The Dom controls the details. The sub controls the scene itself."

(He never went with a "yellow" command. It was red or green only.)

 

[Azalea]

I have never engaged in any bdsm activity, but my fantasy life revolves around this sort of scenario. This discussion of responsibility and control intrigues me. What is the best way way to talk one's partner into experimenting with a little bdsm play? Any suggestions on how to get started?

 

[cellis]

There are times when He can feel my resistance, my inability to get into the scene... He is so in tune to me most of the time that He knows He has only to do so little unexpected thing and I will off and flying.

I know this might sound strange, but for me that is all it takes... for example, we were playing the other day and He had me bound to the corners of the bed, face down. I could not relax, I could not find a way to breath comfortably. And then the next thing I know... whack! He hit me with the cat... normally He works up to it... but that day He just hit me with it... and that did the trick... I just settled into the space I needed to be in....

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: For Me

Originally posted by Johnny Mayberry

Are there certain things you desire from some subs and not others, based on their personality and limits?

I treat each sub individually, since each man is different, and have different levels of submission and limits.


Or do you specifically choose people who have few if any limits?

I choose men whose primary desire is to serve Me, and their ablity to agree to my requirements.

I send them a requirements list, and they have to agree to its terms. They complete BDSM checklists so that I can see where their knowledge and limits are.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

An informed choice

In My D/s world, responsibility and control is an informed choice. It is a conscience agreement between two consenting adults. It is a contract (verbal or written) by two adults that one person will dominate, and the other will obey.

Since the choice is an informed one, and the boundaries are clear, there should be no indecision involved.

That does not mean that things cannot change or are rigid or boring, it just means that there is self-awareness between the two people involved.

Eb

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Thanks for the response, Ebonyfire.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Thanks for the response, Ebonyfire.

Welcome, sorry it took so long, I am a lazy Domme.....

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Re: Responsibility and Control

If I truly want to please Him and face the fear of disappointing him, doesn' HE have the control?

Think of it this way. Within a power exchange, He has the control because you have given it to him.

For you to give it to him, there must be a certain level of trust in his ability to be your dominant.

If that trust is not there, then you will be constantly questioning and/or doubting that control.

Eb

 

[reanne]

Agreeing to be bound by your Dom/me has to be the ultimate act of submission, for the sub is then truly at the mercy of their Master and has to have placed complete trust in them and that they will respect the safe word. I mean let's face it, once tied and immobilized the Dom/me could do whatever they wanted.

 

[lark sparrow]

Agreeing to be bound by your Dom/me has to be the ultimate act of submission, for the sub is then truly at the mercy of their Master and has to have placed complete trust in them and that they will respect the safe word. I mean let's face it, once tied and immobilized the Dom/me could do whatever they wanted.

I see your point in the physical realm, but I am going to place a differing view.

There are actually plenty of people I would trust to tie me up and live through it unscathed - there are far fewer people that I would let control me in emotional realms, wherein I would be emotionally vulnerable, connected and "naked" to their wishes and whims, surrendered.

I can see how being bound involves trust, which is an emotion, but I have been fully immobilized by a Domme I barely knew, had only met half an hour before and mainly trusted her reputation. I was certainly not ultimately submitted to her. For me personally, the ultimate act of submission is in the heart, mind and soul - it's not defined in a singular, physical act.

Again, on a personal note, I think an ultimate act of submission (for me) is in doing something that I would not do with someone else readily. So, being tied up wouldn't qualify. It would probably be an act that would set off all my reactionary 'you cannot control me' or protective 'don't go there - you can't get inside' feelings and actions with anyone else, but with One to whom I was surrendered I would do easily and unquestioned.

It's more of a mind set, if that makes sense - being surrendered on a deeper level than what can be done physically, though may include something physical. I can't think of a really good, clear cut example to illustrate at this moment though, other than a desire to please and a sense of connectedness that over-rides ego, fear, etc.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

The best place to be, of course, is so in tune with each other that what I want is what you need.