Request for Advice

[yukonnights]

Jasmine, It seems that the e-mail would be easy, simply don't respond to anything that will cause inner disturbance. Your peace you can control in this way. If this causes them inner turmoil, that will be their own doing.
Telephone sucks in most ways anyway, can't suggest a way to eliminate someone dumping on you if you allow them in the door that way.

What do you think you should/will do? Your own inner voice is the one guiding you, all the rest of us can only offer weak input and some support.

(PS- don't be too disillusioned by Christianity simply based on the modern American version or even the recent European. Your smart, so keep an open mind and dig deeper. There have been Christians from the beginning who went deep into the well of silence and contemplation and have found the inner peace we all seek.)------- If it aint love, it aint God. No matter what you call it.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Only thing I can do is to keep on my path, dance around the topics if at all possible and bite back the emotions that spring up when my wishes aren't taken into consideration. All I can hope is that doing so won't damage the person I'm trying to become.

 

[playwithlezli]

Only thing I can do is to keep on my path, dance around the topics if at all possible and bite back the emotions that spring up when my wishes aren't taken into consideration. All I can hope is that doing so won't damage the person I'm trying to become.

good night Jaz, stay strong and sweet dreams

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I have dug deeply in the old Greek and Judeo beginnings of christianity and I still found no joy or peace in it. I tried for nearly three decades, Yukon. I can't anymore. I've found my peace and joy now.

 

[yukonnights]

Sounds good. It's those dang emotions though. We bite them back and they bite us.

Oh, to go to a secret place that only you know. A darkness all full of light. Where the biting emotions simply lay down and die a peaceful death.

 

[yukonnights]

By the way, I have spent a lot of time in Texas. Your in pretty rough country gal. I really like what your saying and hope for only the very best (for all of us). If only we could all just get along.

But I wonder, isn't peace and joy something we have to forever journey into but never reach the end?

 

[Gi_Venus]

Hello Jasmine*hugs* sorry I did not see this thread until today.
It does sound like you need more separation, you do not have to be cruel knowing your nature that would be abhorrent to you. I think yukonnights is right in limiting contact. I deal with a similar situation in my family and have been repulsed in the past by their fundamentalism. In my case I was not so nice in my youth..and actively rebelled. It is only until I started asserting myself that I found some amount of peace. I did have to debate and hold up to them that there is morality and decency outside the christian world, also that only God can judge a mans/womans heart. I described to them that my path was not that of Christianity and that was okay. What was important in this is that I did this from a peaceful state...not in a confrontational way. Sigh! My mother insists on praying for me.....that is okay, it is the heart and intent behind it that counts

If you decide to have a sit down with her....or better yet a well written out letter, be sure to acknowledge her feelings and her faith(this is the part I have a hard time with) Tell her it is your path and it is right. I would not tell all of your thoughts she does not need to know that which will surely agitate that situation, but like Yukonnights said.....backing away from her in a gentle fashion would be the correct thing to do while asserting yourself......do not be afraid to assert yourself when she goes overboard. Eventually she will accept it, she may not like it but she will accept it. Try for example....you know mom, it is really hurtful to me when you try to force your beliefs onto me. I really want to know about your life and I really love you but can we talk about something we both can share?

Another thing is to emphasize the commonality of all the world religions to each other to yourself...recognize the common themes and wisdom and understand it is only a different interpretation of what you are embracing.....She will not accept all this of course but it will help you in your hard feelings toward her faith.
All written word is the act of men,"supposedly some under the influence of God" ,writing down the indescribable which becomes diluted and lost once expressed.

I am so sorry you are having such a grevious time with this I stay connected to my family only because of my mother, once she is gone I will be fully on my own path, gently I start to walk it before she is gone and suprisingly she has accepted more than I would have believed possible.
We are here for you of course((((Jasmine)))) Be gentle on yourself Imouto-chan.

 

[Wolfman1982]

NJ: believe in God, be a good human being (a humanist), understand karma. The story about the good Samaritan is a story about karma. both you and I know, that Jesus wasn´t the son of God. But as I see "true" Christianity, then Paul(us) aka. Saulus is out of the picture. And a "true" Christian is a woman, or a man who believes in God, is a humanist, and tries to follow the karma rules.

And if you need to talk to a person privately, then PM me, since at least two people in thread, can say I am ok on IM. Meaning I am not a flirtatous person who goes after people. Even though I have cyber kissed them both, in all friendlyness.

 

[stlpenguin]

Well, first off, from one pagan to another, merry meet.

I understand what you're going through - I went through it a bit with my own family when I came out of the broom closet to them. To this day, neither my mother or father talk about religion with me. My being pagan makes them so uncomfortable, they don't even want to know what it is I believe in.

My in-laws were a completely different story. When I started dating my wife, the family was attending a really fanatical church... one of those ones that loved to get involved in EVERY aspect of your life so they could contro.... er, 'teach' you better how to be Christian. Somehow (and I don't, to this day know how, as I never told her nor anyone she knows, to my knowledge) my sister-in-law found out I was pagan, and got the entire family whipped up into a religious furor over me. They had the whole church praying for my soul, and for my wife's soul since she was dating me. Apparently, they felt I was going to taint her. My mother-in-law was unbearably close to forbidding me to see her ever again.

However, education and good living are the two things that solved most of my problems accross the board. I told them everything - what I believed, what I didn't believe, how I practiced my faith, what was sacred to me, what was forbidden and why... and then I continued to live my life as a good person. My mother-in-law didn't buy into a lot of what I told her when I did. In fact, for a few years, she was vindictive and rude, and sniped at me whenever she could through a thin little smile... But she couldn't deny that her daughter was happier than she'd ever been. Her daughter wasn't taking anti-depressants for the first time in years. Her daughter never had a complaint about me being a jerk, or standing her up, or hitting her, or ANYTHING. The proof was in the pudding.

So, that's my advice to you - Tell her everything, so she'll understand why you've been elusive about your religious beliefs. She won't absorb it all. It won't be an instant fix. In fact, it'll create a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth at first... but keep with it, and show them you live like a good person. Give them NO reason to believe that you're anything less. Those that want you will come around. Those that don't come around more than likely don't love you for WHO you are, but WHAT they percieve you to be.

-- Scott

 

[Night_Jasmine]

Penguin, trust me, I do plan on coming clean about a great deal of things. But for now, in order to keep my soul in balance, I must be gentle around the "patriarch" of the family. My grandfather is getting on in years and I know that both announcements would literally cause too much grief and cause problems. I couldn't have that weighing on my heart. One of my patrons emphasizes balance, which I have tried hard to work towards and maintain. Once he passes, I full expect and am prepared to be treated like a pariah (at best) or even disowned (at the worst). For the moment, I am new on my path and still learning...once the time comes, I can be at that moment of balance and keep true to myself. *smiles* Any advice from a fellow pagan would be greatly welcome.

Wolfie, I have three IM programs and would be happy to chat with you more as a friend. You've been such a comfort since we've met.

Gia, you're so right. I do need some seperation but it's hard when they get upset when I don't call them or respond to emails and the like. *sighs* They don't want to let go. I accidentally mentioned moving further north the other day, and my mother nearly had a coniption fit. She doesn't want me leaving Texas at all.

Yukon, I've lived in Texas all my life and the bible belt is no place for me now. I came to that realization some months ago. The south is really no place for a non-christian non-hetero person such as myself. Problem is, even with new generations being born, the old methods of thinking have not died.

 

[yukonnights]

Good morning Jasmine, hope you found a bit of peace last night.

I really like what GiVenus said above. Especially this; "All written word is the act of men... writing down the indescribable which becomes diluted and lost once expressed." This is a fine description of apophatic theology, which is a well known and early tradition in classic Christianity. Simply stated (overly simple!), it is that God cannot be described by using terms we know (He is beyond knowing). The apophatic theology (or negative theology) attempts to grasp God by peeling away what He is not (eg. hate, war, air, fire or anything that we can describe). When one does this, we are left with only awe at the indescribable. As GiVenus said, people have tried to express the inexpressible for us, but it is never quite possible. This is the God we seek. And I think that even turning to begin such a quest is rewarded by God with a drop of His peace, His love, and His joy. Will we ever know it in fullness? I think not in this world. But a little is better than none.

If you are interested in this, I would suggest "The Cloud of Unknowing", and works by St. Dionysius. There is a huge amount of ancient writing on this subject by many, many people.

If you would, explain to me what exactly Paganism means in this day and age. It is such a broad description that it could mean just about anything. I would be very interested to know.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I'm still learning, to be honest. Penguin probably would be able to explain it better.

Theoretically, in older times, to be considered "pagan" is the worship of a god other than the hebrew/christian god.

This day in age, it can be considered a great many things. Some followers who call themselves pagan draw on some of the Wiccan ideas for guidance. Me, I keep the motto "an' it harm none" very close to my heart.

Some pagans follow nature, allowing the elements to be their guide. Some choose to follow patrons. I met one pagan whose main ideaology was drawn from the Druids but mingled with a few other things.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

As far as my mother...I just emailed her back and told her tht I respected the path she is on and that she is doing as a mother should, praying for her child. But that my concern is her not respecing my need and wish for no religious material or comments to be sent my way. That I am happy and learning who I am and to please allow me a chance to continue on my self discovery, no matter where it may lead me.

*sighs* Here's hoping it'll work.

 

[yukonnights]

I'm still learning, to be honest. Penguin probably would be able to explain it better.

Theoretically, in older times, to be considered "pagan" is the worship of a god other than the hebrew/christian god.

This day in age, it can be considered a great many things. Some followers who call themselves pagan draw on some of the Wiccan ideas for guidance. Me, I keep the motto "an' it harm none" very close to my heart.

Some pagans follow nature, allowing the elements to be their guide. Some choose to follow patrons. I met one pagan whose main ideaology was drawn from the Druids but mingled with a few other things.

Thanks! It is pretty broad I guess. I love your philosophy; "and do no harm to any soul". I think the one thing we can (should?) all agree on is that God is good, He is Love and I don't think a being so awesome is going to reject any soul who is searching to know and love Him (or Her or IT).

And we are all still learning, to be honest.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

A biology teacher in high school once told me (this guy was my favorite teacher) that life is learning. The day we stop learning is the day our life ends.

Now that I think about it, he was one of the first to start encouraging me to follow a path that wasn't laid down by my parents. Gods, looking back on it, I wish I had been able to understand.

 

[yukonnights]

But you said it yourself, life is learning. You couldn't understand him then but you do now. So you see, this learning stuff does work!

I don't think our life ever ends, so that means we will forever have new things to learn! God (and life) is so far beyond all we now know. I don't think we will ever know all, but just keep growing and growing. ( But the path we walk has an outcome on what we learn, I think. If we walk a path of hate, for example, we only learn to hate more, etc.)

I think you are on the path of learning good. Be at peace and do no harm...

 

[playwithlezli]

I am enjoying this conversation, thanks guys.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

You're welcome, Lezli.

Gia says I couldn't hurt a fly. I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty lethal to roaches. *giggles* But yeah...I'm trying to allow my inner self time to grow and expand my horizons. Hoping that not only will I learn to love myself but I'll become someone that my soulmate will be proud of.

 

[neonflux]

As far as my mother...I just emailed her back and told her tht I respected the path she is on and that she is doing as a mother should, praying for her child. But that my concern is her not respecing my need and wish for no religious material or comments to be sent my way. That I am happy and learning who I am and to please allow me a chance to continue on my self discovery, no matter where it may lead me.

*sighs* Here's hoping it'll work.

Hi Jasmine,

I have been thinking of you and keeping you in my meditations. Congratulations on writing your email. How did it feel? And how are you doing after sending it? I am hoping well - you should be proud for sharing your feelings in such a loving way, no matter how she decides to take it.

{{{{ BIG HUGS }}}}}

Neon

P.S., also a *big nod* of understanding as someone who left Texas at age 18 and never moved back. Although I will say that as I've gotten older, I appreciate more and more what it gave me. Molly Ivans, Anne Richards, Jim Hightower - they couldn't have come from anywhere else.

 

[Night_Jasmine]

I did feel better, although a bit frustrated. She didn't answer back on that at all. Just changed the subject. At least I tried right?

 

[neonflux]

I did feel better, although a bit frustrated. She didn't answer back on that at all. Just changed the subject. At least I tried right?

I cannot say what was going on with your mom without talking to her. But one possibility is that she did read it and that it will take her a while to process. Who knows what kind of seed you planted.

Neon

ADDITION: Give it time *hug*

 

[Night_Jasmine]

*hugs Neon* Time I have...spending time in contemplation and planning. Trying to figure out my own needs as well as being able to meet others without compromising what's necessary for me.

 

[neonflux]

*hugs Neon* Time I have...spending time in contemplation and planning. Trying to figure out my own needs as well as being able to meet others without compromising what's necessary for me.

~ ~

 

[Night_Jasmine]

That's always the hard part though, isn't it?

 

[neonflux]

That's always the hard part though, isn't it?

Yes, I agree.