Reprogramming our responses.

[intrigued]

I realize this really doesn't fall into the category of an appropriate topic here. But a lot of you are quite insightful and wise when it comes to relationships and human interactions, so here I am.

Today I was talking with my doctor and we got off on a tangent about how people deal with stress and how to control your response to stress and other "upsets". This led to an "is it worth it?" discussion about reprogramming yourself, so to speak, to just shrug off things or learn to respond to situations in a different way than you normally do.

He gave me an example of a grocery shopping incident he experienced with his wife in which she put a jar of spaghetti sauce into the cart. He asked her why she was getting it when they had 4 other jars at home, why spend $5 on another jar? She responded that it was Emeril's sauce, and she wanted to try it. He got pissy with her. She pulled him aside and said (not verbatim) "We're in the grocery store, at the check out. Is it worth it to lose hours fighting about this, for $5?"
He told me it was an excellent point and that he realized he needed to stop and think more instead of just shooting off. He decided it wasn't worth what he'd go through with her, for $5.

Admittedly, I'm over analytical, but I'm trying to be a better person, lol, so I've been thinking about it. Initially, I was nodding my head in agreement with him, it did make sense. But the more I thought about it, I began to wonder who was really "right" here? Not specifically about $5 sauce, but about the dynamics surrounding the interaction.
Granted, relationships require compromise. We do have to pick our battles and what not. It just seemed to me that even though it's a minor thing, she won on several levels. His thoughts were completely dismissed because of the threat of how he'd have to pay if he didn't back off. That is the part that I'm struggling with.
Does one person really have to just "submit", in order to not have to pay?

When things like this happen in my life, it leaves me feeling so negatively that I "submit" simply to avoid all the bad vibes and tension. In this case specifically, I'd come back later and get the damn sauce by myself. Even then, I'm left resenting that person. That resentment begins to build and therein is the heart of what I'm trying to get at. In learning to reprogram your outward response so as to avoid wasted energy and a negative experience, what happens to how you REALLY feel?


Thanks very much!

 

[midwestyankee]

Emotions, which are at the root of how we "really feel," come and go and cannot be controlled directly. However, we can indirectly influence our emotions through our behavior.

Think of times when you have been disappointed and then something happened at random that took your mind off the disappointment. Soon it was forgotten and you were off doing something else, perhaps even something enjoyable. What happened was, you stopped paying attention to your feelings of disappointment and instead acted as if those emotions were not important. They weren't important, in fact.

If you find yourself experiencing negative emotions, you can indirectly influence them by changing your behavior so that you are no longer paying attention to them. Soon they will be replaced by other emotions - most likely pleasant ones.

If you find that you are frequently using much energy and attention dealing with negative emotions, then it would definitely be worth your while to "reprogram yourself," as you put it.

I can recommend a few different resources if you like.

 

[intrigued]

Emotions, which are at the root of how we "really feel," come and go and cannot be controlled directly. However, we can indirectly influence our emotions through our behavior.

Think of times when you have been disappointed and then something happened at random that took your mind off the disappointment. Soon it was forgotten and you were off doing something else, perhaps even something enjoyable. What happened was, you stopped paying attention to your feelings of disappointment and instead acted as if those emotions were not important. They weren't important, in fact.

If you find yourself experiencing negative emotions, you can indirectly influence them by changing your behavior so that you are no longer paying attention to them. Soon they will be replaced by other emotions - most likely pleasant ones.

If you find that you are frequently using much energy and attention dealing with negative emotions, then it would definitely be worth your while to "reprogram yourself," as you put it.

I can recommend a few different resources if you like.

I would greatly appreciate it!

He spoke of that as well. He noted the difference in the way men handle problems versus women. Men aren't inclined to talk about things, women are. He said that when a man has a problem or a really bad day, on the way home when he is all alone, he doesn't think about that, he thinks about how he needs to work on the mower, etc. This redirects his energy and emotions. I understand that, but where is the resolution in that? Do you see what I'm saying?
More bluntly, we're human beings and experience many emotions. How can they not matter, especially when it's matters of the heart, such as relationships?

I've put a lot of effort into a sort of mind control in which I do as you mentioned above. I block out the negative emotions and try to occupy my mind in another way and do often feel better physically because I am no longer experiencing angst, so to speak. But you know what? That stuff is still in there, festering, and I don't think that's a good thing.

I was really hoping you'd respond, so thank you.

 

[capricious_chic]

But the more I thought about it, I began to wonder who was really "right" here? Not specifically about $5 sauce, but about the dynamics surrounding the interaction.

Why does any one person have to be right? Why does it require that if I am right that you must be wrong - can we not both be right? In placing right and wrong and determining that the compromise requires that the other submit is breaking the relationship down to just a balance sheet and check list.

Perhaps when we adjust our outward responses it reflects on our inward ones. Then the cycle is created that how you really feels becomes reflected in how you respond. I know that when I decided that I wouldn't let negativity influence who I was or how I lived - it simply didn't. Yes there are times it creeps in, yet there are many more where it doesn't because I have made the choice to not let it. Emotions and feelings are often times transient. When you wrap yourself up around something that is usually fleeting and make it more important than it actually is - then it is you that suffers by taking a fleeting moment and sustaining it to last hours, days, weeks.

Off the top of my head thoughts.

 

[intrigued]

Re: Re: Reprogramming our responses.

Why does any one person have to be right? Why does it require that if I am right that you must be wrong - can we not both be right? In placing right and wrong and determining that the compromise requires that the other submit is breaking the relationship down to just a balance sheet and check list.

Perhaps when we adjust our outward responses it reflects on our inward ones. Then the cycle is created that how you really feels becomes reflected in how you respond. I know that when I decided that I wouldn't let negativity influence who I was or how I lived - it simply didn't. Yes there are times it creeps in, yet there are many more where it doesn't because I have made the choice to not let it. Emotions and feelings are often times transient. When you wrap yourself up around something that is usually fleeting and make it more important than it actually is - then it is you that suffers by taking a fleeting moment and sustaining it to last hours, days, weeks.

Off the top of my head thoughts.

This helped a lot, CC. You really rang a chord with the part about "sustaining it to last hours, days weeks". To go further, it begins to color every immediate perception that you make about eachother in other situations (in other words, the past has more influence than the present moment)...it seems to begin to inject itself to a point that communication just breaks down.
I believe I have a long, long road ahead of me, though.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

My response has to deal more with responses in general, not just ones that deal with relationships.

Your feelings are your feelings. Although they may be construed as wrong by someone else (like the needing of the sauce here), there are different ways to let someone know about your feelings. I'm going to refer to the sauce example, since that's what you used. Instead of getting irritated at her for whatever reason, why not suggest getting the sauce at another time, like after some of the other stuff is used. Sometimes the approach is what makes a difference in how what you say and your responses are perceived by others, and this includes body language and tone of voice that goes with the delivery. I have found that the more I back off of the aggressive tones when I disagree with something or dont understand, the better results you get in the end. This includes not having an argument and better understanding someone else.

I hope this helps some.

 

[sheath]

Some thoughts off the top of my head, too...

I went through a period of seeing everything in a negative light. Many things helped, but two things stand out so clearly...

First, find the silver lining in any situation. ANY situation. Make yourself do it, no matter how long it takes. For instance, the guy in your example was upset about a five dollar bottle of sauce when there were already so many jars in the house. Guess what? He had the money to spend on that bottle of sauce. Was the money going to break his bank account? Nope. So...be glad you have the money to buy the sauce. Focus on that, and let the argument go. Finding the silver lining WORKS.

Secondly, ask yourself...is this particular situation, this moment, this argument, going to matter, say, tomorrow? Maybe. Next week? Maybe not. Next month? Probably not. Next year? No way. So if it is not going to affect the love you hold, the respect you have for one another, if it is something as trivial as that...let it go. The BIG problems are the ones that need your focus, not a jar of sauce that costs five bucks. You will forget about that jar next week. The argument? You might not. So choose your battles based on just how much of a deal-breaker they are.

Sometimes I forget those things...I forgot them just a few days ago, when I had to deal with something quite unexpected. But then I asked myself...what really matters? And is this situation going to matter a year from now? Where is the silver lining...what GOOD can I take from this?

And sure enough, now things are back in perspective. And all is well with the world. I know I can handle what has been thrown at me, because I have a firm grasp on what REALLY matters.

Like I said, just thoughts...I'm sure I will have more.

Hope it helps...VERY good thread, intrigued.

S.

 

[intrigued]

Thanks, everyone. I just want to make certain that it is understood that I'm not talking about all lifes "little things" exclusively, OK? Further, I'm usually the one in the wifes shoes, not the one getting pissy. I mean with the initial act, not her response. HER role is mine, and where that leaves me is feeling things like "judged, silly, wasteful, and just wrong. (Relating to the incident I mentioned.)

I really don't get bothered by things like traffic, what someone spends their own money on, if someone breaks a dish or something; all those little day to day things that send some people into a frenzy don't faze me. I shrug off what other people do, if I even react to it at all.
I'm speaking of others reactions to me, which ofcourse ellicits a response from me. I want to change the very conditioned, automatic response that happens every single time someone expresses displeasure, anger, or judgemental stuff to me, about me. Every positive feeling I have about myself is out the window, (though it does return) I feel attacked and misunderstood, and up goes my armor. Everything that follows is pure bullshit.

I wish i were the type that could just say "sorry you feel that way" and go on about my business and NOT feel all the crap that i do. I go from calm and meek to "through the roof" emotionally, feeling like all the blood in my body is about to burst through the top of my head, in about 3 seconds. And it remains inside me, festering. I'll cry, try to speak, storm off...but since I'm responding so emotionally, it's just a blur of stuff that can't possibly be responded to by the other party for all the smoke surrounding it. Yes, it's a waste, and that is my point precisely.

So, in short, I've just got to stop being me. Before you suggest improving my self esteem and confidence, I do have plenty. I just don't know why it is so fleeting when I feel I am being attacked. When all is well, I'm high up there, just strutting my stuff and digging being me. I do love myself, I often think I'm pretty cool and sometimes, I even think I'm quite a "catch", lol. And I'm no doormat either, I see things in a very black and white way, and can't imagine why people keep screwing up when the concept of right and wrong is so simple. I'll say "screw this" and walk away in a heart beat when someone is dishing out something I just cannot find a way to swallow---still I'm left with "what on earth is wrong with ME??"
Something is wrong, and I have to fix it.
(Yes, I'm seeking other help as well, but you guys are really good.)

 

[Guest]

I think it depends on whether or not a couple assumes these types of roles all the time. If he constantly gives in under such circumstances - and takes a passive role as far as domestic things are concerned, then he is not doing anyone any favours in the long-term.

Also, does she always react in this manner if he refutes her? Particularly in public.

Personally, I think it is also wise on her part to stop, think about what he said, and evaluate the usefulness of his comment.

It seems to me they are both being passive-aggresive.

 

[ReadyOne]

I think it depends on whether or not a couple assumes these types of roles all the time. If he constantly gives in under such circumstances - and takes a passive role as far as domestic things are concerned, then he is not doing anyone any favours in the long-term.

Also, does she always react in this manner if he refutes her? Particularly in public.

Personally, I think it is also wise on her part to stop, think about what he said, and evaluate the usefulness of his comment.

It seems to me they are both being passive-aggresive.

Thanks for the words... I'd been trying to formulate my response since last night, and find you've written what I couldn't. Very good.

 

[intrigued]

<snip>
It seems to me they are both being passive-aggresive.

I don't feel he was passive aggressive initially as he did note his dislike of her purchase, lol and then considered her response and found it to be good enough for him.
But you did hit the nail on the head as to exactly what bugs me about all of this. At the end of the day, the month, six months...is he really OK with just dropping it? He was irked. Damn, I wish he hadn't used the spaghetti sauce as an example, it seems so trivial!
What I mean is, where do all the feelings of compromising/shrugging off/giving in really "go", if they aren't truly resolved, or ever really addressed? I think that in time, little things become bigger things that erode away at the edges, then the foundation, until communication is pretty much non existant because the moment their mouth opens and their tongue starts to move, you're seeing them through yesterdays eyes.

It just occured to me that maybe this is a huge part of my issue with myself. I never would've considered myself passive aggressive, but in light of how I disdain bickering, tension, pettiness, confontation and general discomfort between people that care for eachother, maybe I am too quick to jump ship? That would explain the continued festering, all the unresolved issues immediately coming to the forefront and making me so volatile right at the gate...maybe?
I've sat here considering this for quite awhile and I'm struggling to not dismiss it simply because I am able to talk and talk and talk about problems with the people that matter to me...to the point they are begging for mercy. So, in the end, I'm confronting, but nothing is changing.

OK, I need to think out loud somewhere else!

 

[ReadyOne]

Not necessarily P-A.

There is a class of people who loath confrontation or who are conciliators and want to spread peace and harmony. It's a different problem for them, always giving in to avoid the fight.

This might lead to P-A behavior in retaliation -- P-A is a way to fight without direct confrontation.

 

[midwestyankee]

Not necessarily P-A.

There is a class of people who loath confrontation or who are conciliators and want to spread peace and harmony. It's a different problem for them, always giving in to avoid the fight.

This might lead to P-A behavior in retaliation -- P-A is a way to fight without direct confrontation.

This makes a lot of sense. Those who are prone to Passive Aggressive behavior dislike confrontation for their own reasons. If they are partnered with someone who also avoids confrontation (such as a conciliator as Ready One mentioned), but perhaps in other ways, that P-A behavior is going to rise to the top of their behavioral response ladder every time.

It can be an ugly thing when it happens, as the relationship stagnates and much resentment can build up in both partners.

DAMHIKT.

 

[intrigued]

This makes a lot of sense. Those who are prone to Passive Aggressive behavior dislike confrontation for their own reasons. If they are partnered with someone who also avoids confrontation (such as a conciliator as Ready One mentioned), but perhaps in other ways, that P-A behavior is going to rise to the top of their behavioral response ladder every time.

It can be an ugly thing when it happens, as the relationship stagnates and much resentment can build up in both partners.

DAMHIKT.

Amen.

What's with the DAMHKIT? You can't begin to imagine where all I've gone in my mind trying to fill in the blanks myself. Please put me out of my misery!

 

[Cathleen]

Hi Intrigued, this is an excellent subject.

My thoughts are to begin with the first step; to find out from where some of these reactions originate. Learning your "tapes" and "triggers" is paramount to knowing what you want to change and not change. Perhaps you have some hidden beliefs and you are reacting through that response instead of how you may truly feel today, as you are now.

I know I had so many of these tapes in my head for years, when I finally started to examine some of my black and white thinking or some reactions I didn't care for, I was able to trace back to a "tape". Many times you can use a tool of a time line. You start with the reaction - then just go backwards as far as necessary and you may find something that set it off, unconsciously too.

For instance, perhaps with this man and the sauce - he would start with the incident in the market and perhaps follow it back a few hours - noting what or with who he interacted - many times there will be a trigger.

I know it has worked for me - it enabled me to become aware of my responses. Now if I behave or react in a way that I am uncomfortable with I tend to think of the origin of the response. Often it is an outdate belief or thought process that I no longer want or need in my life.

It takes time yes, but its "doable", patience and a fair amount of guts to really think things through. Reminds me of a saying I am familar with: "Take what you like and leave the rest." It goes for what we were taught as children too, thats where lots of my black and white thinking came from and I know I live in a gray world.

 

[midwestyankee]

Amen.

What's with the DAMHKIT? You can't begin to imagine where all I've gone in my mind trying to fill in the blanks myself. Please put me out of my misery!

Don't Ask Me How I Know This (sorry, typo in the original )

 

[intrigued]

Don't Ask Me How I Know This (sorry, typo in the original )

OK, I have a really wild mind, but this is one that never occured to me. I thought maybe it was a huge type for...oh never mind.

Cate,

When I first read your post, the concept seemed too simple. But that is because I keep forgetting that the mind is very powerful, especially when you consider the Super Ego.
The thought of reprogramming the miles and miles of tape I have running at all times is a bit overwhelming, especially when you have to consider "is this a good tape or a bad tape...or maybe this is a tape someone ELSE needs to reprogram, not me!"

UGH! I've sat here too long trying to respond to this and now I realize I need to think on it more before I reply. I'll be back later, lol.

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by intrigued

What I mean is, where do all the feelings of compromising/shrugging off/giving in really "go", if they aren't truly resolved, or ever really addressed? I think that in time, little things become bigger things that erode away at the edges, then the foundation, until communication is pretty much non existant because the moment their mouth opens and their tongue starts to move, you're seeing them through yesterdays eyes.

Not to sound like an eternal pessimist...and certainly not one of my prouder moments...but for me it ended up in divorce court.

Not one to enjoy an argument and realizing marriage requires compromises from both of us...every time we disagreed on something *say whether the wallpaper in the kitchen could have flowers on it...he hates flowered wallpaper but was rarely in the kitchen* I'd ask myself if it was really worth an argument...how important was it in the bigger scheme of life? Usually the answer was...not very....so I'd compromise. Always told myself it wasn't a complete avoidance of arguing...more a question of priorities. Funny thing is that rarely was anything worth fighting for.

Then one day I woke up and frankly didn't like the person I saw (me)...wondered how I got there...realized bit by bit I'd compromised myself away. Yes I'd been right that individually most of the issues hadn't been worth arguing over...but each one was kind of like water torture...and the sum of the parts...however small individually...was huge.

Not sure if this helps or if it's even close to your point...just what your post brought to my mind from my experience.

 

[Cathleen]

Intrigue you take one at a time ~ when it is presented to you. Its difficult to bring them up yourself - its almost as if the words have to come out of your mouth and then you shake your head as say "Did I just say that?" Those are the easier ones to know - its when we don't notice the response is deterimental the challenge is more difficult.

I don't "hear" myself sometimes because its become a natural behavior - like putting myself down or the like - and when I do hear it I really think about where the statement originated.

Just one at a time I think - and patience when the path isn't clear.

 

[ahooohgah]

I read this all in a hurry, so if I miss the point, I apologize...but the first thing that popped into my head was this: Why do you personalize all these attacks? Seems to me an attack says more about the attacker than it does about you.

Maybe you should look for the tape that deals with that, first. I'll be back later to study a little closer. Great thread, BTW!

 

[intrigued]

<snip>Why do you personalize all these attacks? Seems to me an attack says more about the attacker than it does about you.

Hmm, maybe because it is being said to me, about me? And ofcourse it's about the attacker, but surely it's about me, as well.

I've decided that there is no way to continue with this because it will require me to be more "personal" than I should be. I appreciate very much all the replies and the resources PMed to me. You guys came through, thanks.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hmm, maybe because it is being said to me, about me? And ofcourse it's about the attacker, but surely it's about me, as well.

I've decided that there is no way to continue with this because it will require me to be more "personal" than I should be. I appreciate very much all the replies and the resources PMed to me. You guys came through, thanks.

When you give, others give back to you. This is how a community works.

If you need a broad shoulder and an absorbent shirt to cry onto, you'll find it here.

If you need a moment of laughter, you will find many of them here.

If you need a hand to hold, if only virtually, you will find it here.

I'm glad you were able to find some help here.

 

[MagicFingers]

Great thread and question

You are right to ask if you should try to improve yourself and change your responses (Reactions)! Yes, you should. For your own peace of mind and harmony with the world around you.

The sauce incident was NOT trivial. They both actually responded and worked it out rather well. He didn't see a need for the sauce and she explained why she wanted it. He saw that it wasn't worth a scene for a $5 jar of sauce. Now, if they could not afford an extra jar, or if she is always controlling and must have her way, then they would have something to discuss LATER. But dropping it in the supermarket was a good move.

Reconditioning our responses to events around us is a very good goal. If you are addicted to a substance, get into a program and get help. (I'm not saying you are.) Go to counsuling or group therapy meetings. Read books that will help you reprogram your responses.

I recommend "Handbook To Higher Consciousness" by Ken Keys.
It is not long or expensive. (However the process takes time.) It helps you reprogram your responses to the common addictions of Security, Sensation, and Power that most all of us have in some degree, and how to progress to the Love, Cornucopia, Conscious-awareness, & Cosmic Consciousness Centers of our brains.

One should strive to improve their own responses, regardless of whether they are in a relationship or not. However, if they are in a relationship, it would be better if the aprtner was on the same or some similar path. If not, one will quickly (or at sometime) reach a higher consciousness and not be able to live with the addictions of the other!

You can always use the Serenity prayer to help in your everyday decisions, even if you are not in a 12-step program (I'm not), and it's not necessary to be particularly religious either for it to work.

God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

This has saved me many heartaches when I wanted things to be different than they were! And the handbook has helped me see WHY I wanted things to be different and whether I should let go of those "WANTS" and "NEEDS" or not.

Please keep up your personal quest. It IS worthwhile. I understand if you cannot post any more about it here, because it can get personal. Keep it UP!

 

[intrigued]

Well damn. You people just "wow" me!

Thank you so much.


*tosses cyber daises at everyone*

 

[eggyweggy]

I'm speaking of others reactions to me, which ofcourse ellicits a response from me. I want to change the very conditioned, automatic response that happens every single time someone expresses displeasure, anger, or judgemental stuff to me, about me.

Hi, looks like you've already had some great responses from these guys! I'd just like to give you some of my views. I think this is a very good thing to be questioning, and I believe it is all within our control. I believe it lies in our self-confidence, a positive self reality inside your mind, and dealing with your emotions effectively. Most of this is pop psycholoy stuff, and I have no training in this field whatsoever, so take it as it worth (Very lightly!). Comments below.


I know being a social creature that most women are, that when this stuff happens it can be difficult to deal with. That being said, you have to decide what kind of person you are going to be, in all area's of your life. Then reach for it, a little bit each day. You cannot go around life letting people/society/religion judge you, and accepting their judgement as a gospel truth. You can only make yourself happy.

When I feel these emotion's, I try not to block them out or ignore them. It only makes it worse. I am trying to see them as messages. They tell me I need to take action. The process I go through is:

1) What is this emotion trying to tell me?
2) Do I need to re-evaluate my perception?
- If no, I need to change the way I am communicating or behaving

So if I was you, and someone was angry towards me, and I felt say Hurt. It tells me that person has done something that I thought was a sure thing. Do I need to re-evaluate my perception? Was it that bad? Am I being unreasonable? etc. If not, then I need to communicate to that person what I expected from them, and expect from them in the future.

Then there's when I think about myself or other things, I try to stay positive. Internally, inside you're mind there's a kind of "self-talk". It's there where my concious mind says stuff, and my un-concious mind takes it as a literal truth, and give you answers. You see this in some hypnosis tricks, where they get their subects internal self-talk saying they "can't lift this hand". I try to keep that self-talk positive. No "I can't", "I won't", "how come I can't do this" etc. I am reframing everything as "how do I?" questions. "How can I solve X?", "How can I have a more fulfilling life?". And my mind gives me answers on how I can improve.

Again, I'm not qualified to give you any proper advice, this is all my own views on the subject. I am just trying to make progress in this area of my life as well, and am glad you asked this question.