Relationship Ethics Question

[dancing_monnkey]

Is it 'ok' to leave someone because of an illness, specifically mental illness? I know it's ok to decide to not get serious with someone that has issues like that, but let's say you decide to and commit them. If you've lived with someone for several years and jointly connected you finances (buying a car) is it ethical for the healthy partner to just decide to terminate the relationship because of the illness?

I mean I know it's wrong to spend a couple months in an illicit relationship with a third party, hoarding money and making secretive plans to leave... which is unfortunately how things ended up going down. But that was just the how, the root cause was the illness.

I can't decide if you should feel guilty because another person's sickness made you feel like leaving. It's not like they had any control over it, but you should take care of your happiness over promises you make right?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Chicklet]

i think it's 'ok' to leave anyone for any reason, if it's making you not want to be in a relationship with them. i'd say, if you aren't comfortable any more, for whatever reason, it's not fair to anyone to force the relationship to go on.

but it also makes me think of angels in america. lewis leaving his boyfriend because he couldn't deal with him being sick.

 

[Straight-8]

I can't decide if you should feel guilty because another person's sickness made you feel like leaving. It's not like they had any control over it, but you should take care of your happiness over promises you make right?

The fact that you are asking shows that it is not 'ok' with you. And, to me, that is a good thing. The sources of real happiness include dealing with the shit that life hands out without running for cover; taking responsibility for 'promises' and decisions even if they turn out to involve something you didn't mean to sign on for. If you do all that, then you are 'happy' because you know you're a man (or a woman as the case may be).

But not everyone can be a martyr.

It depends on how committed the relationship was; your ability to cope (in a real way) and a variety of other factors that, I think boil down to whether the medical problem is making it so that the relationship has just become impossible (as opposed to awkward or inconvenient). One good reason to have REAL friends is to discuss the situation with them and use their help in assessing that kind of question. You need friends who have some backbone and will tell you if they think you are just being a coward.

Did you discuss this openly with the 'someone' you left? Did you explore alternatives? or did you just slip away because you found the relationship inconvenient? Those kind of things would help to determine whether what you did was 'ok' or just a sign that you need to work on your humanity.

 

[sensationseeker]

I think it is ok. You should take care of your happiness. And you are allowed to change your mind at any point, regardless of any promises you made.

Having said that, I’d like to add that ‘how’ can be very important, and that it is often a deciding factor in whether the whole thing was ok or not.

 

[SweetErika]

I would expect my partner to leave if I wasn't doing my best to get better with medication, therapy or whatever else was likely to help. (In my experience, sometimes my best has been simply surviving for a year or two, though.) If they couldn't deal with it, I'd expect them to be honest with me well before that point they felt they needed to leave, and tell me they were going outside the relationship, so I could decide if I wanted to stay in it, take steps to get better, or prepare myself.

For me, that's the only ethical route, and how I'd (expect my S.O. to) deal with that kind of situation, unless there was some kind of imminent threat, abuse, or similar that made it too dangerous/impossible to take it. However, that's just based on the moral code of my husband and I have, and everyone has to decide what theirs is for themselves.

 

[dancing_monnkey]

Well, truthfully, I was the mentally ill one in the relationship. I was in therapy, and on heavy medication (which she'd pushed me to get on). It was the side effects of the anti-psychotics (sleeping 14-16 hours a day) that she cited as the reason she felt she needed to find someone else who could be there for her.

I presented the issue from the "other" point of view to try to stay balanced. Needless to say, I was quite hurt by the whole ordeal. I never hid my illness from her, and told her that at some point I was bound to have a year long episode that would be terrible. She left at the tail end of the episode, as I was starting to get off the drugs, but the stress caused a relapse for a couple more months.

Though she admits that they way she broke things off, revealing an affair and moving out, wasn't the right thing to do, she still maintains that she didn't betray any commitments by bailing on me when I was sick. She even pressed me to "stay friends" and couldn't understand why I wasn't ok with that.

If she'd have gotten cancer and lost her hair and been sick for a year and unable to do much, I would have stayed and helped her. As much out of friendship than anything. And I certainly wouldn't have found someone behind her back. I've tried to figure circumstances that I would have, and I can't.

Her instance that she wasn't doing anything wrong has really shaken me. On top of losing an important relationship and being betrayed, I'm having to work through the idea that for the rest of my life whenever my genetic illness acts up, that I can expect my significant other to just leave if it gets too inconvient.

I just wanted to hear what other people think about it, and I really do appreciate all the oppinions that you've shared. Thank you.

 

[PertPerth]

I can totally understand how dancing_monnkey is feeling - sounds very similar to many situations I know of personally.

Having said that, I do feel that you should never stay with someone just because you feel responsible for them. If you love them, want to stay with them - that is GREAT! However, if you feel they are a burden (you may still love them in some kind of way) and stay with them -only- because they're not well, you'll end up hating them and it will ruin your relationship anyway. So, my suggestion is both go to a psych and talk things through properly before breaking up. It will help the person with the mental illness to better cope after the break up. Don't just up and leave one day.

I hope things work out okay for you both

 

[naamplao]

Well it is a difficult question and as you can see I don't think it is a question of ethics involved here...rather it is a question of love and commitment of one person to another. It is nice of you to say that you would have stood by her if she developed cancer so she should stand by you....but she doesn't have cancer so we don't know if you would walk that talk.

I have a friend in a similar situation as yourself in a way. She isn't mentally ill but she has difficulty controling her blood sugar (she is type 1 diabetic). When her BS falls really low, she transforms into a rather owly, argumentive bitch. She cannot understand why men don't accept her for the way she is (she says this when feeling normal). The fact is that she does have a male friend who does accept her this way. He has stood by her for 12 years...saved her live at least a half dozen times that I am aware of by finding her in a semi-coherent state of low BS and feeding her sugary foods to bring her out of the crisis. The man is a saint as far as I am concerned....unfortunately for her he is married....but for some reason (love is my guess) he refuses to quit their relationship. She heaps huge amounts of abuse on him and other men in her life, I know this since I am with her group every weekend in a pub doing karaoke.

She is a beautiful woman and we are friends but I'd never enter into anything more than a platonic....very casual friendship. I ask her male friend how he can still support her through all this abuse...he smiles and says that she is really a good girl. It is not ethics that keeps him in this relationship....it is love for her that does.

To answer your question....the girl doesn't love you....she should not be sentenced to a lifetime of looking after you if she doesn't.

 

[short_circutz]

Well it is a difficult question and as you can see I don't think it is a question of ethics involved here...rather it is a question of love and commitment of one person to another. It is nice of you to say that you would have stood by her if she developed cancer so she should stand by you....but she doesn't have cancer so we don't know if you would walk that talk.

I have a friend in a similar situation as yourself in a way. She isn't mentally ill but she has difficulty controling her blood sugar (she is type 1 diabetic). When her BS falls really low, she transforms into a rather owly, argumentive bitch. She cannot understand why men don't accept her for the way she is (she says this when feeling normal). The fact is that she does have a male friend who does accept her this way. He has stood by her for 12 years...saved her live at least a half dozen times that I am aware of by finding her in a semi-coherent state of low BS and feeding her sugary foods to bring her out of the crisis. The man is a saint as far as I am concerned....unfortunately for her he is married....but for some reason (love is my guess) he refuses to quit their relationship. She heaps huge amounts of abuse on him and other men in her life, I know this since I am with her group every weekend in a pub doing karaoke.

She is a beautiful woman and we are friends but I'd never enter into anything more than a platonic....very casual friendship. I ask her male friend how he can still support her through all this abuse...he smiles and says that she is really a good girl. It is not ethics that keeps him in this relationship....it is love for her that does.

To answer your question....the girl doesn't love you....she should not be sentenced to a lifetime of looking after you if she doesn't.

Very well stated.

 

[EveryColorOfFun]

I think there are a couple of factors that haven't been made very clear about the situation which would have had a lot of bearing on the eventual outcome one on you and one on her:

1) Did you tell her of your condition when you first started seeing each other or did you just spring it on her when it started to affect you?

2) Did she start making "noises" about ending the relationship before she actually did after you were first affected, or was it some sudden out of the blue thing?

 

[dancing_monnkey]

I think there are a couple of factors that haven't been made very clear about the situation which would have had a lot of bearing on the eventual outcome one on you and one on her:

1) Did you tell her of your condition when you first started seeing each other or did you just spring it on her when it started to affect you?

2) Did she start making "noises" about ending the relationship before she actually did after you were first affected, or was it some sudden out of the blue thing?

Yes, she knew about my condition about a month into dating, long before we were serious. I never hid it.

She did in December bring up the idea of moving out and getting her own apartment, though she we'd still stay in a relationship. We discussed it and agreed to wait until after Christmas to get into couples counciling before doing anything drastic. January ,she revealed that she'd been making arrangements for a couple months to move in with the other man that she'd found... so it seemed pretty out of the blue to me. But I was still weaning off anti-psychotics, and might have missed a lot of obvious signs.

I'm just sick about the way things ended. And I'm afraid that the next time a girl tells me that she loves me and will always be there for me, I'm going to be completely frightened over the idea that when I start to get sick again she'll just bail when it get's hard. It's baggage I'd rather not have when the time comes, and I just want to understand how other people thing about the situation.

 

[TravelMad]

IMO you simply have to roll on. Don't get sick over anything. Every day you open your eyes is a gift. Why waste it? Don't fret over what will or won't happen. Don't worry about falling in love or not. Just be. Enjoy. If you meet someone you enjoy being around, great. Tell 'em what the situation is... that you enjoy them, you want time with them, you aren't sure how long you'll be around, but that you want to share what you have left and spend it with them. Being around someone who's terminal is extremely difficult. It takes fortitude and strength. If she wasn't there, be glad she left now vs. later, when it REALLY would've hurt.

 

[Noor]

Dealing with mental illness in a friend or partner can be very difficult. You have to be ultra strong and stable yourself so you don't get pulled into it in some way. Sometimes people just can't handle it.

I know you weren't married but marriage vows usually include the words in sickness and in health and in that case I do think its wrong to bail without exhausting every possiblity.

Hoarding money and starting a new relationship on the sly is definitely unethical. One should leave a relationship before starting a new one.

I would stick with a friend who had cancer and so far I have stuck with my friends who have mental illness, even though I have been hurt by it.

 

[dancing_monnkey]

I do appreciate everyone's responses.

It's given me a lot to think about. Thank you all.

 

[DrHappy]

Dancing_Monkey, I feel for you and at the same time, I can't fault her too much. In any relationship, you make an educated guess that you are going to be compatible. I'm willing to guess that she thought that she'd give it a try, and later decided that she wasn't able to get what she needed out of the relationship. How long were you two in a relationship? This happens in lots of relationships for other reasons that don't have anything to do with mental illness.

Yes, it is tragic what happened. However, it would be a second tragedy if you let it sabotage your future. Keep a good attitude about your illness and stay on top of it.

 

[olivefun]

It is the way you do the things you do

I've had friends who'd experienced versions of this. One friend got breast cancer and when she was going through the most upsetting parts of chemo, her boyfriend of many years left her.

He said it was just "too depressing" to be around her.

Thinking it was hurting his ability to do his job and stay focused.
Yeah?
I know his bosses, he could've asked for some flexibilty but he wouldn't hear of it.
I think it is that the guy is scared, and just doesn't want to lose her, so he pushed her away.
The way he did it was horrid.
No two ways about it, but I think he was so freaked, he didn't want to lose her and so he pushed her away in the ugliest possible manner. If she and everyone hates him, it is easier in a way, and this fellow can join the rest of everyone and engage in self-flagilation.

 

[naamplao]

I've had friends who'd experienced versions of this. One friend got breast cancer and when she was going through the most upsetting parts of chemo, her boyfriend of many years left her.

Yeah, well it works both ways. My EX basically did the same to me. I had a cancer Plus 2 other major surgeries in the space of 18 months. I spent a total of 18 days in hospital spaced out over that time. We lived 10 mins by bus from the hospital....She visited me once during that time.

Insensitivity knows no gender.

 

[fgarvb1]

My third wife was not alright in the head. For real.

I'm talking split personality that completely changed in two minutes time.

Everything was seemed almost fine and normal until we were married. Hell everybody has their quirks. It was about two months into the marriage when I realized that I was in deep shit.

By the sixth month I was seeing doctors and councilors because I was stressed out almost to the max. Their advice was to get the hell out before my mental and physical health was ruined. After another six months I filed for divorce...By that time I was pretty fucked up. Two years later I spent six weeks in a "restful place" Because of some other crap happened and on top of the previous crap I couldn't handle it and asked for some help.

That was a turning point in my life.

Thank you God, for making it so easy to get the help I needed to transform my life of ashes into a real life that I enjoyed living.

If you were involved with a dysfunctional person for any length of time you possibly need to seek counseling because one can be effected in harmful ways that are not readily apparent to themselves.

Later i found out she had sustained head injuries and was being treated longterm. She left before her treatments were completed.

You have to take care for yourself. if you don't no one else will.

Advise her to get help. If she is a danger to herself or others ways or available to get people in for observation for a few days.

 

[bareman]

2 sides to every coin

I can speak from experience on this one, having been married to a woman who was mentally/emotionally ill. Sometimes one must do what they require to maintain their own sanity...if it appears to others as selfishness, so be it, but survival comes first.

That said, there are right ways and wrong ways to go about the things you need to do. I am not in your shoes, therefore I cannot judge. But the situation is what it is...and probably not reversing itself. You must now do what you need to do to accept it and get on with your life, and not let it screw you up any longer.

I know you feel betrayed, but it is not reasonable to expect another to sacrifice her own chance at happiness, if she felt there wasn't a future she could be content with. In that sense, I can admire her on some level.."to thine own self be true"...and all that stuff. There are times I wished I had the courage to leave, but instead I stayed on, serving a life sentence...living up to my promises. It may have been admirable, but I most assuredly was not happy.

 

[FurryFury]

Well this is a thorny issue indeed. From my own experiences it was far easier for me to deal with my father's cancer because he was fighting to live than my mother's depression because she seemed to be fighting to die. (Yes, I know that is probably the wrong way to look at it.)

After a while I had to take several steps back and set limits in order to survive, not for myself but for my family members. Being so close to her and trying so hard to help her made me want to end things. It was, I believe healthier for both of us and certainly for my family to step back.

My ex was only happy when I was suicidal, physcially or emotionally wrecked but I didn't realize that for a long time. He left me after ten years together mostly, I believe, because he couldn't reduce me to emotional jelly anymore.

Of course he requested I get pregnant first. I did, never guessing that when I most trusted him and felt secure that's when he'd choose to leave. To me that seemed counterintuitive.

Your particular gf sounds as if she couldn't leave one person without securing another. In my book that's not exactly healthy but then I'm not entirely healthy myself so who am I to talk?

I don't tend to leave people at all for any reason. To me that sort of loyalty isn't healthy either. Sometimes, as I did with my mom, I do have to create distance and insist that she seek attention from me in healthier ways.

Fury

 

[dancing_monnkey]

Well this is a thorny issue indeed. From my own experiences it was far easier for me to deal with my father's cancer because he was fighting to live than my mother's depression because she seemed to be fighting to die. (Yes, I know that is probably the wrong way to look at it.)

After a while I had to take several steps back and set limits in order to survive, not for myself but for my family members. Being so close to her and trying so hard to help her made me want to end things. It was, I believe healthier for both of us and certainly for my family to step back.

My ex was only happy when I was suicidal, physcially or emotionally wrecked but I didn't realize that for a long time. He left me after ten years together mostly, I believe, because he couldn't reduce me to emotional jelly anymore.

Of course he requested I get pregnant first. I did, never guessing that when I most trusted him and felt secure that's when he'd choose to leave. To me that seemed counterintuitive.

Your particular gf sounds as if she couldn't leave one person without securing another. In my book that's not exactly healthy but then I'm not entirely healthy myself so who am I to talk?

I don't tend to leave people at all for any reason. To me that sort of loyalty isn't healthy either. Sometimes, as I did with my mom, I do have to create distance and insist that she seek attention from me in healthier ways.

Fury

Actually, that helps to put things in perspective for me. I wish the world weren't the kind of place where some people just feel the need to put their own desires before all others. But what you went through was significantly worse than I did, and while I'm sorry for that, it has helped give me some perspective. I'm over feeling sorry for myself perse, but I'm still disheartened that world is such a cruel place.

Thank you for your response in paticular.

 

[FurryFury]

Actually, that helps to put things in perspective for me. I wish the world weren't the kind of place where some people just feel the need to put their own desires before all others. But what you went through was significantly worse than I did, and while I'm sorry for that, it has helped give me some perspective. I'm over feeling sorry for myself perse, but I'm still disheartened that world is such a cruel place.

Thank you for your response in paticular.

You are very welcome. The world can be exceedingly cruel but it can also be very wonderful and gentle at times. Your pain is not to be measured against someone else's unless that helps you cope because that pain is your valid pain. No one in my opinion, should ever say, how dare you complain or feel pain about X when there are worse things in the world, yanno?

Perhaps this will help though with the sweet part of life. It helps me.

My mom is still alive and struggling with her mental illness. She wishes we were closer. So do I. She is still pretty toxic for me to be around but on the plus side she has stepped up to the plate and is taking care of her mother. I'm grateful as hell on all accounts.

My ex is dead.

The baby I had is a wonderful young lady. She was mostly raised by my current husband ,(who helped deliver her) and I. She has had to survive "visitation" with a very sick (in every sense of the word) biological father. The difficulties of that are things that no young child should have to deal with period. They have made her wise beyond her years, stubborn as hell and though far from perfect, pretty great.

I went from being in a torturous relationship to a loving and supportive one that has far outlasted the horrible one! Soon we will have our 17th wedding anniversary which will mark 19 years together. I'm so in awe of how lucky I was to be able to be with someone who is so loyal, loving and supportive as my current husband.

We have another child, a son. He is a wonderful young man. He and his sister are very close with less sibling rivalry or fights than most. That's probably partly because I insist we all treat each other with kindness and respect or leave each other the hell alone until we can. LOL.

I still miss my dad (and the mom I thought I had), when he got sick. When I'm not feeling well I really want to be a little girl again and have someone take a little care of me though my childhood was not very good. Now my son, daughter, cat and husband each take care of me in their own little ways.

I remember a "date" night a few years back when I got the flu. My poor boy. He was so looking forward to going out with mom. It turned out he got me Tylenol and juice instead while I tried not to throw up. We did play a little game as best as I could anyway but our plans for dinner and a movie were scrubbed.

Meanwhile my husband and daughter went to their annual dinner and father/ daughter dance. They were all dressed up and had a great time. A few weeks later I offered to make up the date but instead of resenting her, he insisted his sister be included.

Anyway, life can be very horrible. What I've been through isn't as much as a lot of other people. I read the other day of a five year old who was basically tortured and starved to death her whole short life by her mother. Can you imagine such a thing?

It would be so convenient to believe in something like karma when I read such things. Anything that would make it possible to understand how such a thing can possibly happen, yanno?

At the same time life can be impossibly sweet and wonderful. I try to take time everyday to be thankful for what I have and treasure in my life.

For most of us it goes up and down and isn't that extreme. We stay in the gray areas. I'm usually pretty comfortable there.

Today for me is a highly stressful, lack of sleep, down day which apparently is causing me to deep think a little too much. Isn't it funny how you can be busy as all hell and still bored? Isn't it funny how you can be surrounded by wonderful loving people and still feel alone?

Anyway, I hope you find your sweetness in life. Just little tastes of it here and there will help to keep you going on a path that will lead to the things you want most in life.

Fury

 

[SimpleGifts]

Wow. As a quick threadjack, FurryFury...thank you for your post. It's quite inspirational. I'm sorry to hear of what you endured, but perhaps by making you stronger, they ended up having a positive aspect. And you clearly gained by having a wonderful daughter. Kudos to you, and I am glad that you found the relationship that you truly needed.

As for dancingmonkey...I guess I'm with the crowd that doesn't see this as an ethical issue, or even one of "fairness." There are all kinds of situations that we THINK we can handle a priori, and then in the thick of it realize that we can't. And so perhaps your ex realized it, freaked, and ended it badly...the fact that she acknowledges that she could have been a better person in how she ended shows that she has some remorse over the circumstances. And yes, many people only find the strength to end a relationship after they have a second relationship to show them that it will be ok.

I think she ended up doing you a favor, although it WAS poor of her to abandon you perhaps when you needed her. But the fact is, what you needed is someone who could handle the situation and be there for you...and she was not that person.

SG