Rejecting for... spelling?

[Cyberweasel89]

I once had one sent back for the same reason. It turned out that I had consistently omitted the dashes in "brother-in-law" and "sister-in-law" Maybe something similar in your case?

That sounds like a really bizarre reason to reject a story. Like, we're not publishing bestsellers or writing a college thesis. Those dashes seem pretty optional to me. But no, it was just 7 typos in 5,000 words, and somehow that caused the moderators at Literotica to consider my story unacceptable.

 

[KeithD]

I'm surprised to see the wording of the rejection notice. Thanks for providing it. It expands rejection beyond where I understood it went. I had to chuckle at the suggestion that a volunteer editor here would solve the problem. There is no vetting on volunteer editors here and nearly every time I've seen something that supposedly went through a Literotica volunteer editor, I've gotten the impression that they didn't know how to edit any better than the original author knows how to review.

 

[Agiel]

I had to chuckle at the suggestion that a volunteer editor here would solve the problem. There is no vetting on volunteer editors here and nearly every time I've seen something that supposedly went through a Literotica volunteer editor, I've gotten the impression that they didn't know how to edit any better than the original author knows how to review.

I have to agree. I’ve read more stories than I would want to on this site in which the writer thanks Tom, Dick and/or Harry and think to myself they may have helped with the story but they obviously didn’t help with the editing.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Oh, I didn't wanna argue! Sorry that I gave the impression. I just wanted to ask why, is all. I like to know the reasons that people do things, since that helps me understand them. I believe in empathy, compassion, and understanding. If I know the reason someone did something, it helps me understand them, then correct myself to become a better person. It's all about improving myself, not excusing myself.

Based on your screen shot, you've actually got more than most rejection notices ever provide; that is, a few examples of misspelling. That's unusual, I think.

There's little point comparing your story to others with equally bad or worse spelling - it's your story that got rejected, so fix your story and not worry about the rest. After all, once you've fixed it, you've got better quality content, whereas the others, still got bad spelling!

 

[Cyberweasel89]

Based on your screen shot, you've actually got more than most rejection notices ever provide; that is, a few examples of misspelling. That's unusual, I think.

There's little point comparing your story to others with equally bad or worse spelling - it's your story that got rejected, so fix your story and not worry about the rest. After all, once you've fixed it, you've got better quality content, whereas the others, still got bad spelling!

My story is 5,000 words long. Technically just over 5,100 words. I only found seven typos. It's bizarre to me that a 7/5000 typo ratio was worth a full rejection when I've seen stories that were barely legible... I'm not mad or offended, I'm just confused, is all. I didn't know this was a thing considering the alphabet soup I've read elsewhere on the site...

 

[NotWise]

Spelling is a long-standing reason for rejecting stories. It's the third in KillerMuffin's explanation of reasons for stories to be rejected. Her post is here, and, while it's an old post, it's still worth a read. It explains, among other things, why some stories are rejected for spelling and some are not.

It was helpful of Laurel to add the additional examples of misspelled words. That isn't usual.

 

[Bramblethorn]

My story is 5,000 words long. Technically just over 5,100 words. I only found seven typos. It's bizarre to me that a 7/5000 typo ratio was worth a full rejection when I've seen stories that were barely legible... I'm not mad or offended, I'm just confused, is all. I didn't know this was a thing considering the alphabet soup I've read elsewhere on the site...

It's hard to comment on this specific one, because there might have been other errors Laurel saw that you didn't. Editing one's own work is always tricky.

But it certainly does seem to be the case that spelling/punctuation/grammar moderation is extremely variable. It'd be easier to understand if there were multiple moderators but as far as I know it's just Laurel moderating them all. A while back I looked at another author's story that had been sent back for a single error: a stray line break in the middle of a paragraph.

That said, I think it's the ones who get let through with bad SPaG who are getting the worst end of the deal. If your story gets bounced for a few errors, it's annoying but fixable. OTOH if a story gets let through with glaring problems ... just because Laurel went easy on it doesn't mean the readers will.

 

[KeithD]

This is the first time I've heard of an actual rejection on the basis of spelling. This isn't the New Yorker. I think it should require a whole lot of misspellings--to the point of throwing the reader out of the flow constantly--to take on that sort of expectation on a free-read site. Maybe there were in this case, maybe not. One thing is clear to me, though, the editor doesn't actually read the stories on making a submissions call. That right there takes Literotica out of the serious story site realm.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have to agree. I’ve read more stories than I would want to on this site in which the writer thanks Tom, Dick and/or Harry and think to myself they may have helped with the story but they obviously didn’t help with the editing.

Agree that editor quality is variable, but also worth knowing that authors don't always take editors' advice. Sometimes the error you see is one the editor flagged and the author chose to leave in.

Stet happens.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

I’m not asking my beta readers or editors to hunt for typos. If they catch one and point it out, great, but I’m ultimately responsible for any errors. If I’m asking people for their time and feedback, it’s because I value their opinions on story and the overall quality of the writing. I don’t expect volunteers to be unpaid copy editors, going over spelling and punctuation with a fine-toothed comb.

 

[Cobaltofdark]

Willing to bet it's not the spelling it's the spacing dm me and I'll look it over if you want.

 

[jsmiam]

...Sorry, not sure if you were using "he" in the objective sense or not, but I'm actually a girl. :3

My bad. I was playing the odds. ;-)

Regarding the quirks, this is a small business, as in two people running it (or so most of us believe.) You’ll find much better things to get annoyed by very very soon.

You’re part curmudgeon. We can already tell you’ll fit in here just fine!

 

[Agiel]

Agree that editor quality is variable, but also worth knowing that authors don't always take editors' advice. Sometimes the error you see is one the editor flagged and the author chose to leave in.

Stet happens.

I agree wholeheartedly with Bramblethorn regarding writers taking heed of editors.

Two, maybe three, years ago a new writer appeared with a story every few days so they may have already had a bunch ready to go. I thought their stories were quite good for someone new but their spelling, punctuation, knowing when to capitalise and not was terrible. Because I recognised promise I offered to edit for them. I only did one story. They disagreed with everything I said so I gave up. They are still producing stories and although the time gap has substantially increased there has been little improvement in the other aspects of their writing.

 

[Agiel]

I’m not asking my beta readers or editors to hunt for typos. If they catch one and point it out, great, but I’m ultimately responsible for any errors. If I’m asking people for their time and feedback, it’s because I value their opinions on story and the overall quality of the writing. I don’t expect volunteers to be unpaid copy editors, going over spelling and punctuation with a fine-toothed comb.

Beta readers are there to give an opinion on the story and, as you say, if they want to point out an error(s) that’s helpful and appreciated but not expected.

An editor is there to correct mistakes and if they want to give an opinion on the story that’s appreciated but not expected. People often mix up the role of each.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

Beta readers are there to give an opinion on the story and, as you say, if they want to point out an error(s) that’s helpful and appreciated but not expected.

An editor is there to correct mistakes and if they want to give an opinion on the story that’s appreciated but not expected. People often mix up the role of each.

I’d disagree. The role of an editor is much different than the role of a copy editor or proofreader. Editors work with writers to shape the story and language. They’re not there to find typos. This is coming from a journalism/publishing background though, so it might not be the way that everyone works.

 

[lovecraft68]

Um... did you just skim the thread, misread, or do you just believe I'm lying? I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand how you missed the part about them adding those examples of spelling errors later after I posted this thread, or the fact that I went through it and only found seven typos, total. Sorry, just, if you consider "7 typos in 5,000 words" to be "it seems pretty clear you do legitimately need to uplevel your spelling," then, um... I'm VERY worried about you, because that doesn't sound like a rational thing to say without some absurdly unhealthy standards.

This happens all the time, someone comes here with what seems like an unfair issue, people seem to agree they haven't seen this before, then lo and behold the site adds/changes something.

Which means this thread was seen, and wouldn't it be nice if seeing they read through this they could lower themselves from on high to respond?

Because if something has changed and they're now concerned with spelling-as opposed to the myriad of far more serious issues here-and have added checks to their vetting system this is going to get a lot of stories kicked out. Even a pro editor will tell you there is no such thing as perfect copy.

Add to the fact there are some atrocious stories here as far as grammar-and trust me, for me to say a story has bad grammar says a lot because I generally let a lot slide if the story is good, then we're going to get a lot of these threads.

I can tell you if everyone starts getting stories kicked back for this, lit is going to lose a lot of authors. I believe in doing the best you can, but this is a free site with varying levels of talent and skill sets among the writers. Not to mention some of the rougher stories are from English as a second language authors... Lit starts wanting polished pro level material, then maybe its time we start getting compensated for that level of work.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I’d disagree. The role of an editor is much different than the role of a copy editor or proofreader. Editors work with writers to shape the story and language. They’re not there to find typos. This is coming from a journalism/publishing background though, so it might not be the way that everyone works.

On Literotica the term "editor" is used loosely enough that it's best having a writer-editor conversation to clarify expectations. It can mean anything from copy editing/proofreading to structural edits.

 

[Agiel]

I’d disagree. The role of an editor is much different than the role of a copy editor or proofreader. Editors work with writers to shape the story and language. They’re not there to find typos. This is coming from a journalism/publishing background though, so it might not be the way that everyone works.

If you would read my comment again you’ll see I didn’t say “editors are there to correct typo’s.”

Editors on this site are there to correct a multitude of sins, and again, if you read my comment again you’ll see I also said “if they want to give an opinion on the story that’s appreciated but not expected.”

Literotica is an entirely different kettle of fish than in the real world in which people are earning, or trying to earn, a living.

 

[EarlyMorningLight]

If you would read my comment again you’ll see I didn’t say “editors are there to correct typo’s.”

Editors on this site are there to correct a multitude of sins, and again, if you read my comment again you’ll see I also said “if they want to give an opinion on the story that’s appreciated but not expected.”

Literotica is an entirely different kettle of fish than in the real world in which people are earning, or trying to earn, a living.

And I’d go back to my original comment. In a volunteer environment, if I’m asking someone to edit my work, I’m asking them in the traditional sense of an editor, which is to have substantial input into the work itself, not to check my grammar and spelling. Other people might have a different understanding, and that’s fine, but if someone credits an editor on one of their stories, I’m not going to fault the editor if I find typos, misspellings, or syntax errors in the story, because that’s not my view of what an editor should do.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Pardon? What do you mean, if I don't feel confident enough in my own abilities? Sorry, I'm just... legitimately confused about where that came up before in the thread.

Oops, I didn't mean you specifically, I was talking in general. I went through this whole thing about how to proofread and I never mentioned an editor because I don't use one myself. But then I thought that maybe some people would like to have an editor anyway. That is all I meant.

 

[KeithD]

I’d disagree. The role of an editor is much different than the role of a copy editor or proofreader. Editors work with writers to shape the story and language. They’re not there to find typos. This is coming from a journalism/publishing background though, so it might not be the way that everyone works.

To make that assertion of what "editors" do, you really have to use the differentiating qualifiers. A content (development) editor works with the "shape of the story and Language," as you note. That's differentiated from a copy editor, though, who deals with the grammar, spelling, and punctuation issues but doesn't mess with the content otherwise. A substantive editor is between these two--doing what a copy editor does but also dealing with clarity and consistency.

Most people asking for a proofreader here don't understand the limitation of the function. A proofreader compares old ("dead") copy to a new version and has the sole job of pointing to differences in rendering.

Real editors of any expertise are few and far between at Literotica, though, which is OK. This isn't the New Yorker and people aren't paying to get help. What a good beta reader here would do, essentially providing a second pair of independent eyes to look at the piece, is act more in the substantive editor mode--yes, commenting on whether the content is delivered but also questioning grammar, punctuation, and spelling choices.

I do agree, given the fact that the author is the one who last has the work before it's submitted, that it shouldn't be assumed that whatever mistakes still exist are the fault of whoever gave the author whatever help they did. For that reason, although I've done editing here, I've always done it with the understanding I wouldn't be identified as the editor--the finished work very well may be contrary to my editing advice.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I’d disagree. The role of an editor is much different than the role of a copy editor or proofreader. Editors work with writers to shape the story and language. They’re not there to find typos. This is coming from a journalism/publishing background though, so it might not be the way that everyone works.

I think in book publishing, editor, copy editor, and proofreader were three distinct jobs, although in some places they may have condensed into two. On Lit, you are more likely to find a single volunteer to do whatever needs to be done. Maybe some people here get both an editor and a beta reader.

 

[Agiel]

Spelling is a long-standing reason for rejecting stories. It's the third in KillerMuffin's explanation of reasons for stories to be rejected. Her post is here, and, while it's an old post, it's still worth a read. It explains, among other things, why some stories are rejected for spelling and some are not.

It was helpful of Laurel to add the additional examples of misspelled words. That isn't usual.

Although I never make mistakes myself (omg, that’s wishful thinking in the extreme) I read the KillerMuffin post. As a result I would say two things. (1) I would suggest a new writer in particular should read it and some more experienced writers would find it interesting and (2) bear in mind Laurel’s comment as to how to respond if you are questioning the rejection.

—————————

Laurel​

Kitty Mama​

JoinedAug 1999Posts20,574
Also - if you believe your story was rejected in error, please open the submission, respond to the rejection in the NOTES field of the submission, and hit SUBMIT. Please do not add the word EDITED to the title, as that denotes someone editing an already approved story. Since we process all edits after the new stories are posted, adding the word EDITED to a title will cause a delay in the posting of your new story. If you are submitting an edit of a rejected story, simply open the rejected form, make the changes in that form, and hit SUBMIT. Do not start a new submission.

And feel free to PM me any time with questions!
————————

I also enjoyed reading this story.

https://www.literotica.com/s/its-nilla-for-me

 

[tenyari]

There is no vetting on volunteer editors here and nearly every time I've seen something that supposedly went through a Literotica volunteer editor, I've gotten the impression that they didn't know how to edit any better than the original author knows how to review.

I could see value in using one anyway. It's essentially asking for a 'beta-reader' to spot overall tone / story issues you're not seeing because you're inside your own echo chamber.

As for the main topic of the thread - spelling... At a minimum I try to get rid of all those little wiggly red lines libreOffice puts under words in my files. At least the ones that are either English words or not names. Or at least look them up if I suspect the program is wrong about a word.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Think this is relevant, I mean about Lit making changes on its own. In my most recent story, the three "introductory" paragraphs are in italics, although I didn't specify the HTML for that. I know because I kept a file of the document that I submitted. The rest of the italics I did specify are there. The three top paragraphs are separated from the rest of the text by a row of asterisks.

Not a big deal, really, but it does seem like a new "feature." Can anyone comment on that?