Redefining the Human.

[The Squid King]

... Its more then just about fair-weather friends. Who here would like to claim that a pedophile is a human?

By denying that they are human, you excuse their behavior.

 

[riff]

Here we have Squids and Birds talking about us humans!

 

[Black_Bird]

Everything has a choice, Never; and at the same time there is nothing that is so independent from everything else that it can be concidered possessing free will.

I make humanity something that is conditional because I want human beings to become something better then what they are today. I don't redefine words because it's convenient; I do so because it conveys a message.

 

[Dougy]

Society...morality...right and wrong are the sum total of the actions of all humans (whether they be base and ape-like or not) and how those around them react to those actions. We, as a group, are constantly redefining what is 'acceptable' by what we do and how we do it. The term that you are truly attempting to define here is perhaps 'contributing human' or something along those lines. We cannot take the easy route to change and just try to eliminate the lowest common denominator from our reckoning of human.

 

[Black_Bird]

Society...morality...right and wrong are the sum total of the actions of all humans (whether they be base and ape-like or not) and how those around them react to those actions. We, as a group, are constantly redefining what is 'acceptable' by what we do and how we do it. The term that you are truly attempting to define here is perhaps 'contributing human' or something along those lines. We cannot take the easy route to change and just try to eliminate the lowest common denominator from our reckoning of human.

No, we can't.

But there is a difference between those who are at least *trying* to better themselves, and those who wallow in the filth because it's easy.

Even if a human being makes a mistake, they are sinless because they try to learn from it. The others don't.

 

[Never]

Black Bird:
"Everything has a choice, Never; and at the same time there is nothing that is so independent from everything else that it can be considered possessing free will."
Children don't have a choice, adult animals have a choice sometimes and sometimes not.


"I make humanity something that is conditional because I want human beings to become something better then what they are today. I don't redefine words because it's convenient; I do so because it conveys a message."
Unfortunately, your message doesn't change reality. I don't want humans to be better than they are now; humanity is fine as it is now. I wish people didn't make the choices they do but I don't consider myself a better human being than those who take immoral actions.

 

[Black_Bird]

My message does change reality; maybe not in a very large sweeping way, but in a small modest way that hints to something better.

You and I disagree. I respect that; at least we are both working towards the same purpose. That's all that really matters to me.

 

[Never]

I have no problem with disagreeing with another person. The world would be boring if everyone was like me. In fact, I've enjoyed our discussion. You're polite, intelligent, and well spoken.

While I'm strongly opinionated I know my opinion is just that – an opinion. I don't claim to really *know* the answers and I appreciate your thoughts on humanity. I think my position is based in my overtly pessimistic worldview while your seems optimistic. You think human nature can change, I don't.

 

[Black_Bird]

I have no problem with disagreeing with another person. The world would be boring if everyone was like me. In fact, I've enjoyed our discussion. You're polite, intelligent, and well spoken.

While I'm strongly opinionated I know my opinion is just that – an opinion. I don't claim to really *know* the answers and I appreciate your thoughts on humanity. I think my position is based in my overtly pessimistic worldview while your seems optimistic. You think human nature can change, I don't.

Thank you.

I do try to be optimistic; it gets harder and harder everyday to see the silver lining in all that surrounds us. I guess part of it is that I can't stand living in a world that isn't worth fighting for.

It has been nice talking to you, as well. Good night, Never.

[Edit: At one point, I was concidering a symbolic divorce from humanity. I was working my way out of the darkest period in my life at this time. I thought about it, and decided to embrace it instead. I'm glad I didn't do it.]

 

[grrrly]

How about I call you Kiki... it's sounds closer to the word "kinky."

ok...but koko was a smart gorilla...she could speak in american sign language

 

[Black_Bird]

ok...but koko was a smart gorilla...she could speak in american sign language

Wouldn't that take all the fun out of it?

 

[Lost Cause]

So what happened?.....

What was your inspiration for the thread, someone piss in your cornflakes or what?
I've got both types as friends, some I can trust to cover my back in a "fight", some would turn to butter. I know these people and select to be around the "brothers" if shit was going to get weak. The other kind I associate with when things aren't that critical. The general population falls into the latter catagory. They'll talk it up, but when it's time to "walk the talk", they skeedaddle. Weak, part of the herd, sheep.

I can live with everyone, I just need to know their strengths and weaknesses, so I'm not let down when they don't come through.

 

[metal_minx]

Homo du novous......the next step in evolution.....a higher spritual being that will live in harmony with earth...there are few here already...more are being born each....they have not taken power yet..our time will come when the old die out...power structures change...we are close to a time of great transition.....There are so many human beings with so little soul (or discovered soul) hopefully it will change and the greed and fear will be replaced...

this i find silly even though its optimistic...i don't think humans are evolving anymore...we've reached an evolutionary bottleneck in past few thousand years, and it's only become worse...

 

[phrodeau]

Here we have Squids and Birds talking about us humans!

I had to laugh at this comment. I was thinking along the same lines.

Here we have Black Bird and sufisaint defining a superior class of people, and mentioning that they happen to belong to it.

 

[Dougy]

this i find silly even though its optimistic...i don't think humans are evolving anymore...we've reached an evolutionary bottleneck in past few thousand years, and it's only become worse...

To say that we aren't evolving I don't think is true...people on average have become taller for instance...but that we are evolving towards something? That is silly. Evolution responds to environment and we are so shielded from the environment that it has little effect upon us. Spiritual evolution I don't even believe in, and moral evolution, I will agree, is a bit of an overly optimistic hope.

 

[grrrly]

To say that we aren't evolving I don't think is true...people on average have become taller for instance...but that we are evolving towards something? That is silly. Evolution responds to environment and we are so shielded from the environment that it has little effect upon us. Spiritual evolution I don't even believe in, and moral evolution, I will agree, is a bit of an overly optimistic hope.

like psychic powers

 

[phrodeau]

To say that we aren't evolving I don't think is true...people on average have become taller for instance...but that we are evolving towards something? That is silly. Evolution responds to environment and we are so shielded from the environment that it has little effect upon us. Spiritual evolution I don't even believe in, and moral evolution, I will agree, is a bit of an overly optimistic hope.

I think there is some credence to moral evolution. I've learned how bigoted, misogynistic and intolerant many of our great-grandparents were.

 

[metal_minx]

To say that we aren't evolving I don't think is true...people on average have become taller for instance...but that we are evolving towards something? That is silly. Evolution responds to environment and we are so shielded from the environment that it has little effect upon us. Spiritual evolution I don't even believe in, and moral evolution, I will agree, is a bit of an overly optimistic hope.

don't mistake diets higher in calories and certain nutrients causing larger growth as evolution...you can see it in asian popluations that have been westernized over that past few generations...their offspring are taller and heavier
this doesn't indicate evolution, only diet change

 

[metal_minx]

I think there is some credence to moral evolution. I've learned how bigoted, misogynistic and intolerant many of our great-grandparents were.

and many people are like that today they only hide it better

 

[Dougy]

Evolution is about reproductive success, really. Those that are producing more offspring are shifting the gene pool more towards their attributes. I will grant you that a large...even the greater portion...is dietary and nutritionally based, but evolution has not stopped. The problem is that for an environmentally significant mutation to take place there needs to be an isolated genetic pool. That doesn't really exist so much in the world of today, so noticable evolution, you are correct, is pretty well dead.

As far as moral evolution...in a way it is happening every day in the way that people act. I am hopeful that today's generation 'acting' more accepting will lead to more of the next generation actually 'being' more accepting.

 

[metal_minx]

Evolution is about reproductive success, really. Those that are producing more offspring are shifting the gene pool more towards their attributes. I will grant you that a large...even the greater portion...is dietary and nutritionally based, but evolution has not stopped. The problem is that for an environmentally significant mutation to take place there needs to be an isolated genetic pool. That doesn't really exist so much in the world of today, so noticable evolution, you are correct, is pretty well dead.

As far as moral evolution...in a way it is happening every day in the way that people act. I am hopeful that today's generation 'acting' more accepting will lead to more of the next generation actually 'being' more accepting.

the only way the human race will evolve to the next level is if about 90+% of it is wiped out by a plague or nuclear bombs...or that big meteorite coming then the leftover humans would have the room to evolve
or if someday we sent colonies into outer space...they would evolve rapidly to suit the effects of space or of the planet
right now evolution is at a stand still with us, because we no longer practice survival of the fittest, since we have medicines and technology that saves people that should have died at birth...more like survival of the wealthiest, considering out medical costs
i don't think moral evolution is a correct term because evolution indicates biology and natural selection and morals have nothing to do with that

 

[Dougy]

Evolution is really the process of changing in a particular direction. Usage has made it more closely associated with biological evolution, but there is nothing about the word itself that ties it to natural selection.

 

[scylis]

More Human Than Human - White Zombie

I am the astro-creep
a demolition style hell american freak
I am the crawling dead
a phantom in a box shadow in your head say
acid suicide
freedom of the blast
read the fucker lies
scratch off the broken skin
tear into my heart, make me do it again yeah

more human than human

I am the jigsaw man
I turn the world around with a skeleton hand say
I am electric head
a cannibal core a television said yeah
do not victimize
read the mutherfucker psychoholic lies
into a psychic war
I tear my soul apart
and then I eat it some more

more human than human

I am the ripper man
a locomotion mind love american style yeah
I am the nexus one
I want more life, fucker I ain't done yeah

more human than human

***********************************

us humans are doomed. the next evolved race will be the cats. felix sapiens. i mean, just look at them! they're up to something! i'd keep a close eye on them if i were you!

 

[Gamelover221]

I love that song!

 

[metal_minx]

Evolution is really the process of changing in a particular direction. Usage has made it more closely associated with biological evolution, but there is nothing about the word itself that ties it to natural selection.

maybe not but i have trouble with seeing morals as technically evolving