Red Flags

[_kiana_]

I have tried the search function to see if anything like this has been done, so my apologies if the search function has deemed me unworthy of its infinite wisdom

One of the tangents from half_full's post has compelled me to start my very first thread.

What are some of the "red flag" behaviors, actions, expectations, etc that a PYL might* have that would make you take an extra second to think, to concern you?

I realize that pyls can be dangerous as well and that they can take advantage of PYLs just as easily. But I wanted this to address something specific I was seeing in that thread linked to above. A pyl, pretty new to BDSM for practical purposes, wanting to be aware of what just might not be quite right.

I don't really want to write much more for an OP, in the hopes of getting the broadest answers possible. But I'm aware I'm not always good with the written word, so please prod me if anyone needs more explanation.


So, what do you consider "red flags"? Examples, please!


*No accounting for not using personal responsibility! Using your head and thinking for yourself is a good thing! *nod*nod*

 

[_kiana_]

Lemme start then, since I want people to post!

• The PYL wanting to limit contact with friends and family
  
  Limiting contact, isolating the pyl, is an easy way for the PYL to get away with things. Since the pyl can't converse with anyone about what is happening in their life, no one even has a chance to second guess the PYL's motives or be able to offer help should the pyl want to leave.​
• The PYL does not allow the pyl to initiate contact with them. New relationship, not living together obviously.
  
  Very good sign of someone who is cheating on a spouse.​
• Pushes you into doing things you aren't yet ready for.
  
  Exploring and pushing boundaries is often a regular component of established D/s relationships. While still in early stages of relationships, building trust and exploring what you already know you like with each other should certainly happen first.​

Just a few, which probably could have been explained better.

More heads are better than one! What can you add to the list?

 

[DeservingBitch]

Simply, I would only repeat what CutieMouse said in that thread: use the same commonsense you would use to screan a 'vanilla' partner.

Is s/he behaving like an abusive asshole? Yes? Well chances are that s/he is an abusive asshole.

Is s/he respecting you, being honest with you (as far as you can tell), open about what they want and need, and what they're ready to give, treating you like a normal human being and not like a walking-fetish or sexual object (until of course you've agreed to be treated as such), can s/he talk about something else than sex/play/scene/punishment for more than 5 minutes, etc.? Yes? Well, there's potential.

But as CutieMouse also said in that thread, even when someone pass successfully through all of your screening process, they can still screw you over. Like it happens all the time in vanilla life and relationships. That's call life. And she's a bitch.

 

[Toa_lin]

when meeting for the first few times. let the PYL know you're going to tell a close confidant where your meeting, etc. If the PYL doesn't respond well, that's a red flag there. since it's only safe to tell someone where your going if your going to be alone with someone a few times before you know them well.

 

[h_i_s]

whoops .. duplicate post .

 

[h_i_s]

.....even when someone pass successfully through all of your screening process, they can still screw you over. Like it happens all the time in vanilla life and relationships. That's call life. And she's a bitch.

And ... even when someone does NOT pass through that particular screening process, it does not always mean a red flag.

And ... We don't all fit one single mold.
One size does not fit all.

And ... Prefered relationship dynamics play a large role in the whole picture, as do a number of other things. SOME prefer and accept that thier PYL meet those decriptions.

And ... to serve as an example, I've yet to see a list of red flags which would come close to being described as fitting (rather than directly conflicting with) toward the relationship I have with IYM, and the details of our meeting etc.

And ... while we are on the subject, pyl does not always = needy, unable, and in need of protection or being saved, incapable of making responsible decisions, being less than mature/responsible adult

The lists don't keep anyone 'safe'.
In some cases they give a false sense of security, and for others, they would actually serve as a road block of sorts in holding certain individuals back from finding who/what they seek.

Best advise would be as CitueMouse recommended.
Another way of wording the advice to 'use common sense' (because it's a bit more than just common sense which is needed, for far too many):
Mature adult? Then act it. Think like an adult, act like an adult. Be adult enough to render yourself capable of making adult decisions.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

My most recent "red flag" scenario came just the other day. I had met on line this delightful Dom who I was more than ready to meet in real life and went ahead and set a date. BUT on the very day I had agreed to meet and set a date I asked for his last name and he refused to give it to me. And when I told him a visual of his drivers licenses would be required before any play commenced he again refused.

What did I do...I refused to meet.

That's all

 

[wicked woman]

Was chatting to a Dom online, trying to get to know each other, see what compatabilities there were. First red flag was that he wanted to control my mind, body and soul when my profile said not interested in 24/7. I was ready to end the chat there...he wanted to talk more...and meet. I'm wondering why, what's the purpose and didn't see the point of meeting and said so. He bemoaned the fact that I wouldn't have the opportunity to kneel before him...submit...in public at our first meeting! I lol and posted that. 'surely you're kidding'. Apparently not. He expected me to submit on first sight...that all subs should submit to all Doms.

Very short conversation that was ended abruptly. oh how I wanted to tell him that he'd just exhibited one of the basic red flags subs are warned about. A Dom that expects you to submit, before you've agreed to...taken to a new height...all subs should submit to all Doms! still lol

 

[the captians wench]

I remember telling friends "he's just...such an asshole!" and laughing at it and kind of using it as a pet name, but when I really started to think about it he was an asshole more often than he was good for me.

At the time I thought that's what I wanted, but I slowly began to realize that my needs, my feelings, even my emotional well being was not being considered at all, that's when I started to question things.

I also remember him getting more and more asshole-ish as I grew closer to some new friends. He would change the rules on what we had istablished as what would happen when we played with these friends of mine. That's when I really felt like this was not good. He would allow me to set up the meet, and agree to things, that he had no intention of keeping to. That went against every moral fiber in me. It was totally against my nature, and against everything I believe is right.

red flag: going against your since of right and wrong.

 

[Blushing Bottom]

I've met that type as well. They don't get far with me either. I don't cyber or do the phone thing so when a ?Dom starts hounding me about buying cam or phone numbers I clam up and run off. I also find "you should call all Doms Sir and submit from the minute you agree to chat" types laughable.

Was chatting to a Dom online, trying to get to know each other, see what compatabilities there were. First red flag was that he wanted to control my mind, body and soul when my profile said not interested in 24/7. I was ready to end the chat there...he wanted to talk more...and meet. I'm wondering why, what's the purpose and didn't see the point of meeting and said so. He bemoaned the fact that I wouldn't have the opportunity to kneel before him...submit...in public at our first meeting! I lol and posted that. 'surely you're kidding'. Apparently not. He expected me to submit on first sight...that all subs should submit to all Doms.

Very short conversation that was ended abruptly. oh how I wanted to tell him that he'd just exhibited one of the basic red flags subs are warned about. A Dom that expects you to submit, before you've agreed to...taken to a new height...all subs should submit to all Doms! still lol

 

[sexycaz22]

When I first signed up with CollarMe, the first Dom I chatted with, was a nice man and I enjoyed chatting with him, but then he began to talk about the dress code and telling me what to wear when I am on MSN with him, and wanted to see me on webcam, etc and all this ONLY on the first chat with him! Raised so many red flags. In the end, I sent him an email, thanking him for the chat, but no thanks! Never heard from him since then! Phew!

What other red flags? Oh yes....a nice chat...then I reveal that I am deaf, and they start disappearing without telling me whether it bothers them or not.......a massive red flag there! - would have been respectful to say, sorry but you being deaf bothers me, and I would have accepted it but would have been disappointed. This happened TWICE...*sigh* But then it is more less than with vanillia guys - more than often they disappear on me once I reveal that I am deaf. Huh!

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[museofdragon]

Demanding instant and unconditional trust and/or obedience very early in the interactions.

Broad statements like "If you were a true sub you would do X, Y, and Z."

Little things that don't add up. On one of the "meat market" sites, you can read profiles where a guy says he is a 20 year old college student, then he talks about his stable of unconditional, TPE, 24/7. no-limits slaves that he wants to add to. He must live in quite the liberal dormitory.

It works both ways, though. The same site has profiles for 20 year old females who admit they have no real time experience, but insist they have no limits. Then they get offended if you point out that getting flogged or fisted in real time just might be a little more intense than having it happen in a chat room.

 

[serijules]

I don't see red flags as roadblocks...I see them simply as warnings, things to take note of and be cautious of. That doesn't mean you cannot go any further or need to run in the other direction screaming. If it's something that truly bothers you, then it is likely something you should trust your instinct on.

If you like guys that demand you drop to your knees and suck them off in the middle of a dirty subway station in broad daylight the instant you meet him, knock your socks off. To many people, that would be a red flag and it's a perfectly valid one.

Red flags are not rules. Being aware of common indications of potentially dangerous behaviour is SMART, not judgemental. Not everyone will feel uncomfortable or leery of the same things. Regardless, they are still red flags and in my opinion, should be stated as such. It's up to the people involved to take it or leave it as it suits their situations.

 

[twysted73]

When I first signed up with CollarMe, the first Dom I chatted with, was a nice man and I enjoyed chatting with him, but then he began to talk about the dress code and telling me what to wear when I am on MSN with him, and wanted to see me on webcam, etc and all this ONLY on the first chat with him! Raised so many red flags. In the end, I sent him an email, thanking him for the chat, but no thanks! Never heard from him since then! Phew!

What other red flags? Oh yes....a nice chat...then I reveal that I am deaf, and they start disappearing without telling me whether it bothers them or not.......a massive red flag there! - would have been respectful to say, sorry but you being deaf bothers me, and I would have accepted it but would have been disappointed. This happened TWICE...*sigh* But then it is more less than with vanillia guys - more than often they disappear on me once I reveal that I am deaf. Huh!

*tilts head slightly sideways* I don't see why being deaf or blind would have a negative effect in D/s other then a unique adaptation in "Safe Signals" through touch or tapping.
I love sensory deprivation play. I think it would be an unintentional bonus in my partner.
*spends the following 15 minutes thinking about the fun that could be had*
wow

 

[serijules]

*tilts head slightly sideways* I don't see why deaf or blind would make a difference in D/s other then a unique adaptation in "Safe Signals" through touch or tapping.
I love sensory deprivation play. I think it's a bonus in my partner.
*spends the following 15 minutes thinking about the fun that could be had*
wow

I too am deaf, and you would be surprised how many people are too intimidated by it to interact with me, even on a day to day vanilla basis, despite the fact that I am an avid lip reader and my speech is fine, so they don't even have to deal with sign language.

It makes for AMAZING sensory deprivation though. No matter how good of ear plugs, etc you have, you cannot clone total deafness. There are many days when I am very glad I am deaf

 

[HarletMinx]

Hmm we got into this talk last night at a black rose meeting focusing around ethics in the M/s relationship. Some of the things that got touched upon. One of the big things touched upon was the responsibility of a Dominant to their Submissive and vice versa. One thing that was agreed upon was the importance of rules. Whether ye be a M/s, D/s, or Top/bottom relationship their are different rules and standards of ethics that are implied or written. For example: I'm your slave, I turn over all my paychecks to you, thus it's your ethical responsibility to financially take care of me rather then say drain me of money and kick me out. While sometimes we don't always follow/enforce the rules but a change of them constitutes a change of the relationship between you two. Hopefully the relationship shared is first between the people then between the dominant and submissive, and if you find yourself not trusting who they are as a person how can you trust the dominant.

One large flag for me are the various Dominants who honestly expect to have some sort of fantasy relationship. I'll quit work, They will be the only thing in my life, and I'll be kept naked, bound, and beaten 24 hours a day.....

Another flag that pertains to any relationship is stagnation. If you find yourself doing the same thing over and over and rituals tend to become mindless repetition, something is wrong. Generally our relationships should be growing, changing, and evolving.... with new and BETTER toys!

Meh, that's my 1 1/2 cents.

Pip

 

[twysted73]

Another flag that pertains to any relationship is stagnation. If you find yourself doing the same thing over and over and rituals tend to become mindless repetition, something is wrong. Generally our relationships should be growing, changing, and evolving.... with new and BETTER toys!
Pip

Stagnation can be found in almost anything. Loss of novelty is, unfortunately, a byproduct of posessing such active minds and varied tastes.
But I agree that perpetual and unaddressed stagnation is a problem. To me it denotes loss of interest in many cases.
What makes the difference between healthy stagnation and unhealthy is the willingness and drive of both partners to reinvigorate and reinfuse the relationship's dynamics and activities with new life and wonder.

*nips at the next person who comments because, quite frankly, I'm in a very painful/playful mood today. Apologies leveled well beforehand**

 

[Netzach]

I remember telling friends "he's just...such an asshole!" and laughing at it and kind of using it as a pet name, but when I really started to think about it he was an asshole more often than he was good for me.

At the time I thought that's what I wanted, but I slowly began to realize that my needs, my feelings, even my emotional well being was not being considered at all, that's when I started to question things.

I also remember him getting more and more asshole-ish as I grew closer to some new friends. He would change the rules on what we had istablished as what would happen when we played with these friends of mine. That's when I really felt like this was not good. He would allow me to set up the meet, and agree to things, that he had no intention of keeping to. That went against every moral fiber in me. It was totally against my nature, and against everything I believe is right.

red flag: going against your since of right and wrong.

This is the best description of it.

I am involved with people with whom we're very diverse on a lot of things, but they know where I clock in on ethics and respect that and furthermore know what to expect and NOT expect based on my personal sense of ethics and the details we've hashed out. And my ethics can be very brutal and darwinian - but they KNOW that.

I'd say uncommunicative should not get far, unless you read animals really well. No insult or joke, some people are gifted at knowing those who don't communicate well and some aren't. I'm not. It doesn't have to be long talks by the fire, maybe they need to keep a journal or maybe they just need to be unafraid, as my husband is, to tell me I'm upsetting him if I'm upsetting him and then we can determine why/how.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

My most recent "red flag" scenario came just the other day. I had met on line this delightful Dom who I was more than ready to meet in real life and went ahead and set a date. BUT on the very day I had agreed to meet and set a date I asked for his last name and he refused to give it to me. And when I told him a visual of his drivers licenses would be required before any play commenced he again refused.

What did I do...I refused to meet.

That's all

Good for you bb.

 

[sexycaz22]

/snip/ There are many days when I am very glad I am deaf /snip/

*nods* I know what you mean, serijules.

I am a sign language user, and even I have difficulties everyday too! But I must admit, in the BDSM scene (more than the vanillia scene), most people are more than willing to communicate with me through notepads & pens, but even me knows that the patience will run out one of these days, and I know that if I am in a long-term relationship, BOTH of us will work harder than usual to make sure that we communicate effectively and no misunderstandings etc...as I am sure you have been through yourself with your PYL.

 

[sexycaz22]

*tilts head slightly sideways* I don't see why being deaf or blind would have a negative effect in D/s other then a unique adaptation in "Safe Signals" through touch or tapping.
I love sensory deprivation play. I think it would be an unintentional bonus in my partner.
*spends the following 15 minutes thinking about the fun that could be had*
wow

*laughs* yes it can be interesting when it comes to sensory deprivation play, I have not done this part yet, but I am sure someday, it will happen, and it will be interesting to see how would I cope, being blindfolded, especially since I am half blind in one eye.

Mmmmmm, now I want to do some sensory deprivation play - - anyone willing to help me out??

 

[Chris_Xavier]

*laughs* yes it can be interesting when it comes to sensory deprivation play, I have not done this part yet, but I am sure someday, it will happen, and it will be interesting to see how would I cope, being blindfolded, especially since I am half blind in one eye.

Mmmmmm, now I want to do some sensory deprivation play - - anyone willing to help me out??

Jesus girl.. you're a glutton..

 

[BiBunny]

My own personal hypothesis about meeting people online is that 99% of them are either already attached and trying to sneak around behind the primary partner's back or are too socially inept to meet people in real life. (I fall under the "too socially inept to meet people in real life" section myself.) The remaining 1% are few and far between, obviously. If you go into your search keeping Bunny's Hypothesis in the back of your mind, you're a lot less likely to be taken advantage of because you've got your eyes wide open, and you know what you're getting into.

 

[Netzach]

And ... even when someone does NOT pass through that particular screening process, it does not always mean a red flag.

And ... We don't all fit one single mold.
One size does not fit all.

And ... Prefered relationship dynamics play a large role in the whole picture, as do a number of other things. SOME prefer and accept that thier PYL meet those decriptions.

And ... to serve as an example, I've yet to see a list of red flags which would come close to being described as fitting (rather than directly conflicting with) toward the relationship I have with IYM, and the details of our meeting etc.

And ... while we are on the subject, pyl does not always = needy, unable, and in need of protection or being saved, incapable of making responsible decisions, being less than mature/responsible adult

The lists don't keep anyone 'safe'.
In some cases they give a false sense of security, and for others, they would actually serve as a road block of sorts in holding certain individuals back from finding who/what they seek.

Best advise would be as CitueMouse recommended.
Another way of wording the advice to 'use common sense' (because it's a bit more than just common sense which is needed, for far too many):
Mature adult? Then act it. Think like an adult, act like an adult. Be adult enough to render yourself capable of making adult decisions.

I love this. I'm so sick of the group-driven infantilizing of submissives. Until you are officially surrendering your responsibility and unless you are - take some effing responsibility for your choices, safety, sanity, and happiness. A red flag is any large and obvious marker that the person you are talking to is not going to deliver on some of your core needs and interests to be happy with them. For some people NOT holding open your door tells you what you need to know and for other people someone who DOES open the door for you creates the sign of a possible dealbreaker. Just pay some attention and stick to your personal safety measures. And if you can't avoid someone who creeps you out then you have no business dating regardless.