Reality vs Romance

[sr71plt]

and the thin skin of civilization is often torn under the circumstances.

Or, conversely, heroics and self-sacrifice win out in people we never would have expected had it in them.

 

[TE999]

Or, conversely, heroics and self-sacrifice win out in people we never would have expected had it in them.

Exactly. Mice become lions and vice versa. As the old saying goes 'A coward dies a thousand deaths, a brave man only one'.

In this last sinking of a cruise ship, the captain was one of the first ones ashore.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I call PROJECTION good awareness. Its not blindness at all. Its recognition.

Real blindness is when we're oblivious to whats happening under our noses.

RECOGNITION is good awareness.

Projection is false. It makes us oblivious to what's happening under our noses.

That jimmysticks would say anything different ... doesn't surprise me, actually.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I quite agree. But being a loudmouth isn't the same as being self-serving, or asshole-ish, or any of the other things you've accused men of being. We're all just people, whether man, woman or sentient crystal. Which was the point I was trying to make by asserting you may have neglected to mention the asshole side of women: both genders have the capacity for bravery or selfishness in equal amounts.

I guess if I have to actually stress my point, it'd be this: gender doesn't determine personality, not completely. If a man is an asshole who'll step over a woman and leave her to die, it's not because he's a man. It's because he's an asshole. The same would be true if the circumstances were reversed.

Men and women aren't assholes. People are assholes.

Uh oh. Burning bra stuffed into a vodka bottle coming in at 12 O'clock high.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Uh oh. Burning bra stuffed into a vodka bottle coming in at 12 O'clock high.

KK is a man.

 

[sr71plt]

You are right. I DIDN'T add that most women are self serving assholes because I don't think most of them are to the same degree as men.

And thereupon rests the basis of your separation from reality. You are totally lacking in objectivity--but you fill in the void with rabid nastiness.

It's not a male/female divide; it involves specific person traits. Yours really should be put through a couple of wash and spin dry cycles.

As others here have pointed out, if anything, the societal pressure is on the man to step aside in favor of the woman. Doesn't always happen, of course, but to the extent there is societal pressure, it's in favor of the survival of the woman. The issue with you is that you want both this privilege and the privilege of knifing the man on your way to safety.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

KK is a man.

Men can be feminists. Sometimes they are the best kind

 

[Stella_Omega]

Men can be feminists. Sometimes they are the best kind

Somehow I don't think he's the kind of feminist that burns their bra, though.

(I've never understood that-- remember those days, and the damn things were worth burning. They were over-engineered, butressed and hard as rocks.


But nowadays, a woman spends her own money on the thing, and it's beautiful and all lacy and shit-- why would she burn it?)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

RECOGNITION is good awareness.

Projection is false. It makes us oblivious to what's happening under our noses.

That jimmysticks would say anything different ... doesn't surprise me, actually.

I suckled Freud from an early age, goose-stepped to it in my Hitler youth, and used dream analysis to get to 1st base with the ladies.

Now that I'm an old fart I sneer at neuroses (DSM threw them to the curb 40 years ago), roll my eyes at dreams (unfiltered thought), and suspect no person in the history of Earth has ever said, BY GOLLY YOURE RIGHT! I DO HAVE AN ITCH FOR MY 90 YEAR OLD ALGEBRA TEACHER, MISS HOTMIRE. YOU MUST BE PSYCHIC!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Men can be feminists. Sometimes they are the best kind

Any man who says he's feminist you dont want in your feminist club. Theyre like the French. Hitler had a daydream about conquering France, and the French threw their hands up when they learned of it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In other words, you fucked up your references and you want to hide it behind bluster and obfuscation, attacking as many targets as you can find in the shortest time possible.

Yeah, that's not Freudian AT ALL.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

KK is a man.

I was warning him about Safe Bet's coming hissyfit at his remarks.

 

[R. Richard]

You are right. I DIDN'T add that most women are self serving assholes because I don't think most of them are to the same degree as men. But that's besides the point cuz that wasn't what the subject was! See how that "sticking to the subject thingie thing" works??? (I didn't discuss how well my garden is doing either. Should I have?)

My point IS: most of the stories of male chivalry is nonsensical crap. Going back to mideivel times, the brave, self sacrificing, chivalrous knights were no more than raping, pillaging, murderous thugs. For every brave soldier or firefighter I can show you a thousand who ain't so brave (but that doesn't prevent ALL men from trying to pass off the valor of a VERY select few as the behavior of the many).

Bottom line is that you big, brave men can beat your cave man chests and tell each other how big and brave you are. That STILL doesn't mean that you're one iota more brave, chivalrous or valiant than the average woman. It just means y'all simple talk more shit. (but we already knew that, didn't we?)

I just can't let this opportunity pass. Some time back, I was involved with the Navy SEAL Teams. I had an opportunity to talk with a female PhD psychiatrist. The lady was tasked with an evaluation of forming a female SEAL team. I laughed when she told me. She asked what I thought was so funny.
I told her, "Back in caveman days, men hunted beasties (technical term here,) while women stayed by the fire, gathered food and raised children. When the men hunted beasties, they had to operate as a team, to hunt the often larger, stronger beasties. If a male didn't functon as a part of the team, he was thrown out of the group. If a male functioned as a part of the team, he might put himself in danger, to save another member of the team, so that when his time came, someone would put themselves in danger, to save his ass. Over the course of time. the brave gene became a part of being a man. Later, there were lots of opportunities for the coward gene to breed back in. However, the time of developing the brave gene was a lot longer than developing the coward gene. Thus a lot of men have the brave gene, even today.
The women, back in cavemen days, worked hard and even had to maybe travel when they were very pregnant. However, in general, they didn't hunt. Not only didn't they hunt, they developed the mindset, 'If I die, my baby dies.' Women, in general, will go to lengths to see that their babies live.
If a male SEAL gets wounded, the Team will try to rescue him, even if the rescue makes no sense from a practical point of view, it's built into the genes of the kind of men who become SEAL Team members.
If a female SEAL team member were to get wounded, the 'if I die, my baby dies' mentality takes over and the team moves on. They didn't form a female SEAL Team.
The PhD lady agreed with my conclusions, although she told me that some of my detail was open to argument.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

In other words, you fucked up your references and you want to hide it behind bluster and obfuscation, attacking as many targets as you can find in the shortest time possible.

Yeah, that's not Freudian AT ALL.

Youre projecting!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I just can't let this opportunity pass. Some time back, I was involved with the Navy SEAL Teams. I had an opportunity to talk with a female PhD psychiatrist. The lady was tasked with an evaluation of forming a female SEAL team. I laughed when she told me. She asked what I thought was so funny.
I told her, "Back in caveman days, men hunted beasties (technical term here,) while women stayed by the fire, gathered food and raised children. When the men hunted beasties, they had to operate as a team, to hunt the often larger, stronger beasties. If a male didn't functon as a part of the team, he was thrown out of the group. If a male functioned as a part of the team, he might put himself in danger, to save another member of the team, so that when his time came, someone would put themselves in danger, to save his ass. Over the course of time. the brave gene became a part of being a man. Later, there were lots of opportunities for the coward gene to breed back in. However, the time of developing the brave gene was a lot longer than developing the coward gene. Thus a lot of men have the brave gene, even today.
The women, back in cavemen days, worked hard and even had to maybe travel when they were very pregnant. However, in general, they didn't hunt. Not only didn't they hunt, they developed the mindset, 'If I die, my baby dies.' Women, in general, will go to lengths to see that their babies live.
If a male SEAL gets wounded, the Team will try to rescue him, even if the rescue makes no sense from a practical point of view, it's built into the genes of the kind of men who become SEAL Team members.
If a female SEAL team member were to get wounded, the 'if I die, my baby dies' mentality takes over and the team moves on. They didn't form a female SEAL Team.
The PhD lady agreed with my conclusions, although she told me that some of my detail was open to argument.

You pretty much nailed it on the head. When the lions come a few men take on the lions so the pregnant females can escape with the sissies.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I just can't let this opportunity pass. Some time back, I was involved with the Navy SEAL Teams. I had an opportunity to talk with a female PhD psychiatrist. The lady was tasked with an evaluation of forming a female SEAL team. I laughed when she told me. She asked what I thought was so funny.
I told her, "Back in caveman days, men hunted beasties (technical term here,) while women stayed by the fire, gathered food and raised children. When the men hunted beasties, they had to operate as a team, to hunt the often larger, stronger beasties. If a male didn't functon as a part of the team, he was thrown out of the group. If a male functioned as a part of the team, he might put himself in danger, to save another member of the team, so that when his time came, someone would put themselves in danger, to save his ass. Over the course of time. the brave gene became a part of being a man. Later, there were lots of opportunities for the coward gene to breed back in. However, the time of developing the brave gene was a lot longer than developing the coward gene. Thus a lot of men have the brave gene, even today.
The women, back in cavemen days, worked hard and even had to maybe travel when they were very pregnant. However, in general, they didn't hunt. Not only didn't they hunt, they developed the mindset, 'If I die, my baby dies.' Women, in general, will go to lengths to see that their babies live.
If a male SEAL gets wounded, the Team will try to rescue him, even if the rescue makes no sense from a practical point of view, it's built into the genes of the kind of men who become SEAL Team members.
If a female SEAL team member were to get wounded, the 'if I die, my baby dies' mentality takes over and the team moves on. They didn't form a female SEAL Team.
The PhD lady agreed with my conclusions, although she told me that some of my detail was open to argument.

No and yes, dude.

No, I don't believe you've EVER had a fucking thing to do with the SEAL teams (other than playing too damn much Halo).

and

YES, I believe you have talked to a LOT of psychiatrists because the crap you're spewing is delusional.

Now be a good boy and go ask the nice nurse for your Thorazine, K?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I gotta say the evo-psyche is every bit as silly and cutsie-pootsie as any Twilight novel.

I told her, "Back in caveman days, men hunted beasties (technical term here,) while women stayed by the fire, gathered food and raised children.

How could the women gather food and stay by the fire at the same time?

What's the difference between "gathering food" and hunting?

Do you really think food gatherers went into the terrain unarmed?

When the men hunted beasties, they had to operate as a team, to hunt the often larger, stronger beasties.

I know that modern men love to fantasise about the Arouch, the Bison, the Great Kangaroo-- but that's just a modern man's Sparkly vampire fantasy.

A bbig hunting party like that happens very rarely, in any hunting community to date. That kind of hunting takes a hell of a lot of energy for rather little results, most of which is not the food but social cohesion and coming-of-age observances.

REAL hunters set traps for little fluffy bunnies, and nets for little silver fishies, and they pick berries if they can. many times they bring their families with them, wife and all the kiddies, and picnic on the grubs and single birds egg that they've found.

And if all of the men leave, there are a lot of women left vulnerable. If you want to believe that women are always vulnerable, you have to leave some Big Stwong Men behind to guard them.

If you don't want to leave any Big Stwong men behind, then you have to posit that women could take care of themselves.

If a male didn't functon as a part of the team, he was thrown out of the group. If a male functioned as a part of the team, he might put himself in danger, to save another member of the team, so that when his time came, someone would put themselves in danger, to save his ass. Over the course of time. the brave gene became a part of being a man. Later, there were lots of opportunities for the coward gene to breed back in. However, the time of developing the brave gene was a lot longer than developing the coward gene. Thus a lot of men have the brave gene, even today.

Except for all of the ones that don't.

No one has ever found a "brave gene" or a "Coward" gene, but we have found that people who are committed to the cohort are braver than people who do not respect their companions. That's why the Army puts all the enlisted men through so much shit before they send them out to kill and die.

The women, back in cavemen days, worked hard and even had to maybe travel when they were very pregnant. However, in general, they didn't hunt.

You know this how? What archeological evidence do you have?

Not only didn't they hunt, they developed the mindset, 'If I die, my baby dies.' Women, in general, will go to lengths to see that their babies live.

This is true enough. And so will men.

If a male SEAL gets wounded, the Team will try to rescue him, even if the rescue makes no sense from a practical point of view, it's built into the genes of the kind of men who become SEAL Team members.
If a female SEAL team member were to get wounded, the 'if I die, my baby dies' mentality takes over and the team moves on. They didn't form a female SEAL Team.
The PhD lady agreed with my conclusions, although she told me that some of my detail was open to argument.

I'm betting she didn't want to waste a lot of time arguing with an idiot. I'm betting she met so many idiots like you that she realised that no female SEAL team would ever get the support and backup the men get, and she would be sending brave women out for no purpose.

 

[lovecraft68]

I just can't let this opportunity pass. Some time back, I was involved with the Navy SEAL Teams. I had an opportunity to talk with a female PhD psychiatrist. The lady was tasked with an evaluation of forming a female SEAL team. I laughed when she told me. She asked what I thought was so funny.
I told her, "Back in caveman days, men hunted beasties (technical term here,) while women stayed by the fire, gathered food and raised children. When the men hunted beasties, they had to operate as a team, to hunt the often larger, stronger beasties. If a male didn't functon as a part of the team, he was thrown out of the group. If a male functioned as a part of the team, he might put himself in danger, to save another member of the team, so that when his time came, someone would put themselves in danger, to save his ass. Over the course of time. the brave gene became a part of being a man. Later, there were lots of opportunities for the coward gene to breed back in. However, the time of developing the brave gene was a lot longer than developing the coward gene. Thus a lot of men have the brave gene, even today.
The women, back in cavemen days, worked hard and even had to maybe travel when they were very pregnant. However, in general, they didn't hunt. Not only didn't they hunt, they developed the mindset, 'If I die, my baby dies.' Women, in general, will go to lengths to see that their babies live.
If a male SEAL gets wounded, the Team will try to rescue him, even if the rescue makes no sense from a practical point of view, it's built into the genes of the kind of men who become SEAL Team members.
If a female SEAL team member were to get wounded, the 'if I die, my baby dies' mentality takes over and the team moves on. They didn't form a female SEAL Team.
The PhD lady agreed with my conclusions, although she told me that some of my detail was open to argument.

Really? Sure that wasn't in a story you wrote? When someone is trained to that level gender no longer matters. No Seal would leave another behind. Period.

I'd tell you where I get my military knowledge from, but unlike many here don't feel the need to tell others where I've been or what I've done for this country

Suffice to say no one I knew back then male or female would bail on each other.

In reality heroism vs cowardice is not based on gender, but the individual. However, as many times happens it has now become a battle of the sexes.

 

[JackLuis]

Let's face it reality Sucks, and I don't mean the good way.

We need to address the issue of storytelling instead of arguing about meaningless crap.

I wonder what the lifeboat drill was in 1776? The Captain and his Logs last?

 

[R. Richard]

Since I have been criticized, including criticism by those who live almost entirely in a female world, let me give you a story, well known among the SEALs (SEAL is an acronym and should be capitalized.)

In the qualifiying, used to weed out non-SEAL material, they used to use a test. The SEAL candidates were given a couple of rock filled buckets. They were then directed to jump into a swiming pool and swim to the other end, carrying the buckets along. The genral method was to kickswim a few feet, then sink. Back to the top for air, then back down and carry the buckets a few feet futher. One guy jumped into the pool and walked along the bottom, carrying the rock filled buckets. When he got to the far end and was putting the buckets on the deck of the pool, a Navy Chief appeared and asked, in the usual scream, used with raw recruits, "What in the Hell do you think that you'r doing?" The recruit said, "Chief, I can't swim." (A SEAL is a development of the Underwater Demolition Teams, where swimming was a very large part of the job.) Now, for the quiz.

Why would a guy go into a swimming intensive activity, when he couldn't swim?
What did the Navy Chief say to the guy?
What was the purpose of the 'bucket of rocks' test?

 

[Stella_Omega]

ROFLMAO Richard. You don't know jack shit about cavemen, and you can't use them to explain modern behaviors.

I'd love to hear your answers to your own questions, since I know damn well no one will ever hear you answer mine.

 

[R. Richard]

I gotta say the evo-psyche is every bit as silly and cutsie-pootsie as any Twilight novel.
How could the women gather food and stay by the fire at the same time?

What's the difference between "gathering food" and hunting?

Do you really think food gatherers went into the terrain unarmed?

Some of the women, those without new babies, could gather food from plants. Gathering food from plants is not called hunting. The gathered food then had to be processed and, perhaps, cooked. The processing could be done by those women who remained by the fires.

I know that modern men love to fantasise about the Arouch, the Bison, the Great Kangaroo-- but that's just a modern man's Sparkly vampire fantasy.

A bbig hunting party like that happens very rarely, in any hunting community to date. That kind of hunting takes a hell of a lot of energy for rather little results, most of which is not the food but social cohesion and coming-of-age observances.

REAL hunters set traps for little fluffy bunnies, and nets for little silver fishies, and they pick berries if they can. many times they bring their families with them, wife and all the kiddies, and picnic on the grubs and single birds egg that they've found.

Humans may have hunted down Ice Age camels 13,000 years ago on what are now the streets of Boulder, Colorado, a new analysis of ancient tools suggests.
From National Geographic: Blood residue on stone blades found recently in a Boulder resident's backyard could be the first evidence that the implements were used to butcher horses and American camels.
The extinct camel species had almost no hump and was slightly taller than a modern camel, with a shoulder height of seven feet (about two meters).
The tools are thought to be products of the Clovis people, early Americans known for their distinctive spearheads.
(Hint: The early hunters didn't set snares for horses or camels.)
From the DailyKos: Among the largest of the mega-fauna that inhabited North America during the end of the ice ages was the Columbian Mammoth: a kind of elephant that stood more than 11 feet high and whose weight was measured in tons. It is estimated that it could run 25-35 miles per hour. By 12,000 years ago, archaeological evidence shows that American Indians were hunting these mammoths. Archaeologists call these ancient Indian people Clovis because the first evidence of these early big game hunters was found at an archaeological site near Clovis, New Mexico. Here archaeologists found an atlatl point embedded in a mammoth bone, clear evidence that Indian people were hunting these giant creatures thousands of years ago. Archaeologists generally feel the Clovis first emerged about 11,200 years ago.
(Hint: The early hunters didn't set snares for mammoths.)
I could go on, but there were any number of large, what are called mega-fauna that existed in North America, until the end of the ice age ans then went extinct. When the Amerinds came, the mega-fuana disappeared. There's a lot of evidence that the early Amerinds hinted the mega-fuana to extinction.

And if all of the men leave, there are a lot of women left vulnerable. If you want to believe that women are always vulnerable, you have to leave some Big Stwong Men behind to guard them.

If you don't want to leave any Big Stwong men behind, then you have to posit that women could take care of themselves.

Except for all of the ones that don't.

Ummm, Stella, animals are afraid of fire. Remember the women tending the fires? Yes, tending a fire is taking care of oneself. but you don't have to be big and strong to tend a fire. (Ask around.)

No one has ever found a "brave gene" or a "Coward" gene, but we have found that people who are committed to the cohort are braver than people who do not respect their companions. That's why the Army puts all the enlisted men through so much shit before they send them out to kill and die.

I'm betting she didn't want to waste a lot of time arguing with an idiot. I'm betting she met so many idiots like you that she realised that no female SEAL team would ever get the support and backup the men get, and she would be sending brave women out for no purpose.

Stella, you call me an idiot. Let me point out to you that I have called any number of high ranking militasry people idiots and for good reasons. However, I have never met the high ranking military officer who would put himself/herself in the position of having to explain why female SEAL Teams members were sent into danger and perhaps death, without adequate support and/or backup. You obviously have experienced such high ranking military officers. Perhaps you and/or SafeBet would like to explain such contacts. In detail, please.

 

[R. Richard]

ROFLMAO Richard. You don't know jack shit about cavemen, and you can't use them to explain modern behaviors.

I'd love to hear your answers to your own questions, since I know damn well no one will ever hear you answer mine.

I bow to your superior knowlege of cavemen. Perhaps you would like to entertain us with your knowledge of the four separate types of cavemen, outside of Africa. The four seperate types of Hominini.

Would you like to bet money on your final sentence conclusion?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I bow to your superior knowlege of cavemen. Perhaps you would like to entertain us with your knowledge of the four separate types of cavemen, outside of Africa. The four seperate types of Hominini.

Google is your friend

(and so is common sense, if you have any of that left)

Would you like to bet money on your final sentence conclusion?

No but I'll bet you the last tattered remains of your ego, you poor old bastard.

ETA: I gotta apologise, I didn't see your response when I wrote that

 

[Safe_Bet]

Google is your friend

(and so is common sense, if you have any of that left) No but I'll bet you the last tattered remains of your ego, you poor old bastard.

Yeah, but I bet RR and his imaginary SEAL team can beat your ass in Halo, Stella!
(at least until the Thorazine the nice nurse gave him kicks in)