Reality vs Romance

[Cruel2BKind]

Also, how do cavemen matter?

We are evolving constantly. Put a teenager today that has been raised on electronics (and had his/her brain wired completely differently because of it) next to anybody from a hundred years ago. You will have two completely different people. In IQ, in ideology, in morals and values.

We are evolving. Embrace the new.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Also, how do cavemen matter?

We are evolving constantly. Put a teenager today that has been raised on electronics (and had his/her brain wired completely differently because of it) next to anybody from a hundred years ago. You will have two completely different people. In IQ, in ideology, in morals and values.

We are evolving. Embrace the new.

Poor Richard CAN'T evolve. He and his imaginary team (comprised of cavemen and SEALs) are still trapped on the second level of Halo I.

 

[Kurokami]

Poor Richard CAN'T evolve. He and his imaginary team (comprised of cavemen and SEALs) are still trapped on the second level of Halo I.

And that's, like, the worst one! Give me Silent Cartographer any day.

KK is a man.

Yup. I check every day to make sure that hasn't changed

Men can be feminists. Sometimes they are the best kind

Word. Even if I hadn't been one beforehand, I owe it to my daughters to be one now.

Case in point, anyone who brings up a point about cavemen... Even if women were the gatherers of the time, what's important to remember is that in this possible fantasy of deadly animals stalking the land, those animals are still out there when the women are off gathering. Sure the men might be poking them with sticks, but the women stand an equal chance of getting savaged. In fact, I'm willing to bet that any cavewoman who lasted into adulthood would be several orders of magnitude more badass than I, or any average male specimen today. It'd be wrapped up in the nature of existing in their time.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sorry, I didn't see this!

Some of the women, those without new babies, could gather food from plants. Gathering food from plants is not called hunting. The gathered food then had to be processed and, perhaps, cooked. The processing could be done by those women who remained by the fires.

Nice to see a change from "DID" to "clould."

But let's look at what you're saying here; that women who "didn't have new babies" were brave and left the fireside.

How far away did they go? Answer: a long way, because it does not take very long for an area to be stripped of its plant food.

How brave did they need to be?

Brave as fuckall.

Did these women need to cooperate with each other? Even if it meant someone's baby might be left motherless?

Well-- what do YOU think, RR?



Now, about what is hunting and what is gathering:

Along the way to the squash patch, a woman might run into a nest of mice, for instance, and kill and drop them into her gathering basket, because who knows if the Big Stwong Mens will bring anything back in the way of protien that day?

Suddenly, her "gathering" morphs into "hunting."

Likewise some dude dragging his wildebeast home notices a bunch of tasty asparagus and shucks off the tops of them.. he's gathering as well as hunting. Or if he didn't bag his wildebeast, no way is he going home hands empty so he detours into the grass to grab some grain.

Humans may have hunted down Ice Age camels 13,000 years ago on what are now the streets of Boulder, Colorado, a new analysis of ancient tools suggests.
From National Geographic: Blood residue on stone blades found recently in a Boulder resident's backyard could be the first evidence that the implements were used to butcher horses and American camels.
The extinct camel species had almost no hump and was slightly taller than a modern camel, with a shoulder height of seven feet (about two meters).
The tools are thought to be products of the Clovis people, early Americans known for their distinctive spearheads.
(Hint: The early hunters didn't set snares for horses or camels.)
From the DailyKos: Among the largest of the mega-fauna that inhabited North America during the end of the ice ages was the Columbian Mammoth: a kind of elephant that stood more than 11 feet high and whose weight was measured in tons. It is estimated that it could run 25-35 miles per hour. By 12,000 years ago, archaeological evidence shows that American Indians were hunting these mammoths. Archaeologists call these ancient Indian people Clovis because the first evidence of these early big game hunters was found at an archaeological site near Clovis, New Mexico. Here archaeologists found an atlatl point embedded in a mammoth bone, clear evidence that Indian people were hunting these giant creatures thousands of years ago. Archaeologists generally feel the Clovis first emerged about 11,200 years ago.
(Hint: The early hunters didn't set snares for mammoths.)
I could go on, but there were any number of large, what are called mega-fauna that existed in North America, until the end of the ice age ans then went extinct. When the Amerinds came, the mega-fuana disappeared. There's a lot of evidence that the early Amerinds hinted the mega-fuana to extinction.

Well, first thing-- you're not talking about "cavemen" now, these people are all Homo Sapiens, modern man types. Way past the evo bio parameters.

Unless of course someone needs to lay time travel.

Secondly, One big animal doesn't feed as many people as a bunchof small animals. There is always small animal hunting going on.

Thirdly, anything that gets hunted to extinction is something that is easy to hunt. And you have no proof the men did that hunting, in fact we could just as easily assume women were the Mighty Game Hunters that far back, because-- why the hell not?

Ummm, Stella, animals are afraid of fire. Remember the women tending the fires? Yes, tending a fire is taking care of oneself. but you don't have to be big and strong to tend a fire. (Ask around.)

But MEN are not afraid of fires. In these evopsych scenarios, men are evolved to rape (which as a matter of fact, is not borne out in modern hunter gatherer communities), And murder, and rob. In which case, any man is far better off bringing his family with him when he hunts. So he can protect them. And then that "My Baby" thing happens-- to men as well as women.

Either the women can take care of themselves or not. You can't have it both ways.

Stella, you call me an idiot. Let me point out to you that I have called any number of high ranking militasry people idiots and for good reasons. However, I have never met the high ranking military officer who would put himself/herself in the position of having to explain why female SEAL Teams members were sent into danger and perhaps death, without adequate support and/or backup. You obviously have experienced such high ranking military officers. Perhaps you and/or SafeBet would like to explain such contacts. In detail, please.

You explained that yourself. Evo Psych fairy tales are so deeply intrenched in this society's fantasies, you can't actually assess women's capabilities in reality. Your lady PHD knew better than to set real women up against those fairy tales. Or she thought she did.

 

[Stella_Omega]

And that's, like, the worst one! Give me Silent Cartographer any day.



Yup. I check every day to make sure that hasn't changed



Word. Even if I hadn't been one beforehand, I owe it to my daughters to be one now.

Case in point, anyone who brings up a point about cavemen... Even if women were the gatherers of the time, what's important to remember is that in this possible fantasy of deadly animals stalking the land, those animals are still out there when the women are off gathering. Sure the men might be poking them with sticks, but the women stand an equal chance of getting savaged. In fact, I'm willing to bet that any cavewoman who lasted into adulthood would be several orders of magnitude more badass than I, or any average male specimen today. It'd be wrapped up in the nature of existing in their time.

either that or cavefolk were very very good at hiding from predators.
C.F. Robert Sussman, Man the Hunted

Regarding RR's notion that the top brass would support female troops as carefully as they do male--

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...to-combat-sexual-assault-in-u-s-military.html

The problem seems to be not the TOP echelons, but the middle ones.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What makes the most sense is this strategy:

The gals went with the mens and beat the bushes, driving the game to the men. If I was doing it I'd place the men in a river, or up in trees, to ambush the game as they fled the ladies. The women likely collected edible shit along the way.

After the game was caught the gals lugged the meat back to camp. Men didnt need horses for millions of years.

 

[R. Richard]

either that or cavefolk were very very good at hiding from predators.
C.F. Robert Sussman, Man the Hunted

Regarding RR's notion that the top brass would support female troops as carefully as they do male--

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...to-combat-sexual-assault-in-u-s-military.html

The problem seems to be not the TOP echelons, but the middle ones.

Animals that depend almost solely on animal flesh for their nutrient requirements are considered obligate carnivores while those that also consume significant non-animal food are considered facultative carnivores and/or insectivores.
Man is a facultative carnivore and also facultative prey. If you have ever been to Africa, you will see that significant portion of the rural African diet consists of insects (mainly the larvae.)
There were and are diurnal predators in Africa, but most of the large predators ae crepuscular. You see, it's possible for a diurnal preditor to sneak up on a herd of herbivores. who must eat a lot of low calorie food, in order to survive. However, it's difficult for a diurnal predator to sneak up on an aware human. Of course nocturnal predators who want to catch humans, run into the fire problem.
A group of male humans have at least clubs and then stone tipped spears. Even lions very probably learned of the cost of trying to pred on early male human hunters. A group of 100lb male hunters, armed with just clubs would be very difficult prey for a leopard. (A group of male Chacma baboons are avoided by leopards, despit the fact that they weigh maybe 70lbs and have only their forepaws.
Now, let us visualize a group of 'badass' early females. Some of them have babies in arms, others have small children. It;s really not possible for a woman with a baby in her arms to effectively wield a spear. If she has a small child with her, a predator will try to work around the mama to get to the baby. (I have seen videos of hyenas trying to get at a baby rhinoceros. A mama rhinoceos is considerably more badass than a human female.)

The problem of sexual assault in the military is a very bad one and a growing one. Females are afraid to go to the latrine, after dark. Several females have died, due to dehydration, trying to eliminate nighttime latrine visits. Now, there's the problem of male homosexuals trying to rape male soldiers. I was referring to combat situations, not military base situations. The problem is really not one of the lower or middle ranks, but the very top ranks. The problem is a political one and we can thank Blowjob Bill for the origin of the problem. (I have some background in the matter, as I was threatened, in writing (e-mail) with homosexual rape (non-military situation. I went to the scumbags, in order to stay within the law. The scumbags thought the threat was 'funny.' I then led a movement that named the male scumbags as 'faggot' and the Chief as 'Chief faggot.' After the next election, we had a new Chief. He had a somewhat different outlook regarding threats of homosexual rape. The lower level scumbags are still annoyed when they are addressed as faggot. Later, threat boy died in an auto accident a thousand miles and more away. I had scumbags on my front porch, in the wee small hours, making sure that threat boy hadn't been killed by me. I politely suggested that they go pimp for they mama. I don't like scumbags at all.)
I have no problem with the sexual orientation of other people, so long as they don't try to force their sexual orientation on me or minor children. In the area where I live, there were violent, aggressive homosexuals who were the victims of a plague. The symptoms of the plague bore a superficial esemblance to the kind of wound one would expect from a large caliber firearm or a large bore shotgun. The local public health people did NOTHING about medical treatment for the plague victims. (Several of the plague deaths occurred while I was in public places, with reliable witnesses.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

yes indeed, insects are a large part of any hunting society's diet, far more than big animals. This has always been true, despite the EvoPsyche fanboy fantasies of aurochs and Wolly Mammoths.

Hyenas are not cavemen.

Rhinos are not cavemen.

Vague facts pulled out of National Geographic do not substitute for knowing what the actual fuck you are talking about.

And female humans, by the way, are called "women" or "girls" if very young. Even very primitive ones.

As for the rest of your wierdness, I hate to ask what you were trying to say-- you certainly said some entertainingly Chest-Beaty and Big Mannish stuff, I'll give you points for that.

 

[Loring2]

Firemen risk their lives for total strangers and the majority are male. The majority of soldiers, guardsmen, police officers are men and all risk their lives for men and women and children who are total strangers to them. You're looking at one instance.

Want another instance of Male cowardness? The creator of Halo(to lazy to google his name) died sometime back. He was driving a car with his pregnant wife next to him. A car ran a red light at a high speed and was going to stroke her side of the car. he reacted by slamming the brakes and spinning the car so that it hit his side, killing him. His wife and the baby survived. Another self serving asshole.

So sure you'd risk your life for someone? So sure you'd get hit by a car for your kid? Join the crowd, but hope you never have to find out and if you do you may find you don't like the results.

Adrenalin triggers fight or flight and unless you have been there before no one knows what their reaction will be.

Sorry, but your undying hatred for the male race is showing again and its making you look foolish.

You are so right as to be frightening. Looking inside yourself at a moment of truth is downright scary. A lot of people, both men and women, have to look elsewhere for help.

 

[Loring2]

You pretty much nailed it on the head. When the lions come a few men take on the lions so the pregnant females can escape with the sissies.

Apparently it's been like that forever.

 

[R. Richard]

No, rhinos are not cavemen. However, a female rhino has the same kind of problem that a female cave dweller would have. It's difficut to protect young, while travelling. A fixed location provides better security for the young. Also, a very pregnant female is not in a good position to defend her young or other females' young.

Vague facts pulled out of National Geographic do not substitute for knowing what the actual fuck you are talking about. Of course not. And it's easier to ignore those facts, it they don't fit your weltanschauung. If I simply state something, you reject it. If I use evidence, you also reject that. Let me point out, I can and do answer your questiosn. You haven't answered my questions.

And female humans, by the way, are called "women" or "girls" if very young. Even very primitive ones. The military uses 'female' and not woman. If you have a problem with that, go argue with the military. As to human, the cave dwellers that we are talking about may not be humans, but an extinct offshoot of the evolutionary process that led to humans. Even anthropologists don't agree if Homo Erectus is 'human.' As to humans, did Neanderthals call their females women (please cite your sources)? The Neanderthals were sufficiently human that they could intebreed with Homo Sapiens, or so those who study that sort of thing tell us. As to humans, did Denisovans call their females women (please cite your sources)? The Denisovans were sufficiently human that they could intebreed with Homo Sapiens, or so those who study that sort of thing tell us.

As to task sharing, the primitive tribes who inhabit the Amazon basin assign hunting duties to the men and planting/gathering duties to the women. I have been there and observed things. You haven't.

 

[JackLuis]

Bravo RR.

The Reality and the Romance can be blended, if you do it right.
I did some research on 2000 BC and it was pretty civilized. No flush toilets, but better that a cave littered with bones.

I wasn't trying for reality, because that is so depressing, so I put in a race of Amazons who Were the daughters of "Angles", see Mesopotamian religious refs. I postulated that they would need a creative force sustain themselves, cut off from Heaven.

I gave them special glands by which they could recharge their Miraculous Powers if they sucked dick. As I said, stroke, er Romance created a reality of it's own. At least for a rather ordinary Sorcerers Apprentice who is recruited to impersonate a God!

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm going to reply to only one of those scattershot declarations.

No, a female rhino does not have the same problems that a human woman has. They are big, and armoured, and not sentient, they do not carry belongings or plan for the future. Rhinos do not differ much in size between the sexes. Male rhinos do not rape unwilling female rhinos. (although elephants have been known to rape rhinos, and not necessarily female)

Unlike human women, female rhinos rely on instinct and great big hooves and sharpass noses-- identical to the males-- as their weapons and armour.

and evn a half-grown rhino is far beyond the reach of midsized predators which were the true scourge of the hominids of the evolutionary period you guys keep referencing.

Okay? which of your bunkum do you want me to shoot down nexrt?

As for your questions, I have no clue whatsoever about the procedures of SEAL training. My ignorance in that area does not make evolutionary psychology any more true.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Yup.

I can easily envision most men gladly climbing over a woman, then using her kids as step stools to help him get in the life boat quicker.

Then once he and his "buddies" are safe and away they can tell each other how brave and valiant they were to get there.

I hafta agree.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I'm going to reply to only one of those scattershot declarations.

No, a female rhino does not have the same problems that a human woman has. They are big, and armoured, and not sentient, they do not carry belongings or plan for the future. Rhinos do not differ much in size between the sexes. Male rhinos do not rape unwilling female rhinos. (although elephants have been known to rape rhinos, and not necessarily female)

Unlike human women, female rhinos rely on instinct and great big hooves and sharpass noses-- identical to the males-- as their weapons and armour.

and evn a half-grown rhino is far beyond the reach of midsized predators which were the true scourge of the hominids of the evolutionary period you guys keep referencing.

Okay? which of your bunkum do you want me to shoot down nexrt?

As for your questions, I have no clue whatsoever about the procedures of SEAL training. My ignorance in that area does not make evolutionary psychology any more true.

Stexy Stella. Smart too. My cunt does a little flip flop when I read your posts.