Realism VS Fantasy

[TadOverdon]

I know you write very different incest stories than I do, but I've never liked in media res in an I/T story. What's interesting to me is why two family members would cross the line. I want to see what leads up to Bill fucking his mom. Seeing Bill's Mom set up his sister to join them in a threesome is much less interesting to me.

Yeah, different things turn people on. I like the OMG-this-is-so-unconscionable-and-shocking thing.

It is, and I think we used this term to one another once, a likely throwback to the sex fiction I first encountered in adolescence.

And I think it's because I'm as challenged by the limits of what I find plausible as everybody else, but in an opposite direction to some others: there's really not a set-up that I can sell myself where an emotionally functional woman has sex with her mentally healthy son. Ask me to ground this stuff any more deeply than "because she was bitten by a radioactive spider," and I'm out. A failure of imagination in itself, I guess.

In at least one book we did, the in media res incest chapter was just the precipitating incident to a storyline that mostly focused on other characters whose relationships then evolved just a little bit more slowly throughout the book.

I do read and enjoy good stories in which the behavior is motivated and justified in some detail. But I don't prefer to work in that mental space of identification myself. And I confess that I get a charge out of characters choosing to do what they should not simply because rule-breaking excites them. I may suffer from somewhat suppressed sociopathy.

 

[Djmac1031]

What are the relationships going to be like after the threesome? So many stories I read, it's like "the three have sex, and everything's great afterward." No! There are now three sexual relationships instead of just one. That strikes me as being far more difficult to manage and navigate.

Is one woman going watch while the other fucks the guy, and then they switch? Or are the two women going to go full FF sex? If they're going full FF sex, has one or both of them had sex with a woman before? If the women have been heterosexual all their lives, I find it implausible that they suddenly want to go full FF sex, particularly in front of a guy.

Threesomes are my favorite fantasy. A lot of the stories I'm thinking about writing have threesomes in them. But they are so implausible in so many stories.

Trust me I have been asking myself the same questions as I'm going along, building this thing.

My initial thought has been that since this series explores a lot of Voyeur/ Exhibitionist themes, that the friend may simply watch the couple first. She's already watched a different scenario over a video chat, so in person would be the next logical progression.

 

[Blind_Justice]

As a writer of mostly SF and fantasy stories, the topic of "realism" is something I have to wrestle with rather often. The trick to a good story is making the reader grasp the rules at work and making sure to anchor the story in enough realism to make it seem plausible.

Which means that people in my fantasy universe are bound by many of the same constraints as those in our world. They need food and rest, falling off high places is as fatal as always and traveling on foot or horseback takes time. When introducing the fantastical elements like spellcasting, the first couple times I go to great lengths to show how it works. Spellcasting in my world takes a moment and some concentration, facts the reader can pick up and learn so it dorsn't come out of nowhere when someone interrupts a caster with a kick to the groin. Depending on the kind of spellcaster, some other rules might apply. Clerics can't cast without a holy symbol of their faith. Wizards recite formulae - gag 'em and you stop their fireballs. Basic D&D stuff, but if applied consistently, it gives the story an air of believability.

That said, too much reality is boring, especially in sex stories. I don't need to read about the hot couple not fucking because the asperagus they had for lunch is wreaking havoc on their innards and they're taking turns using the bathroom. I mean, that could work as part iof a comedy plot, but when I want to read smut, I want a good reason why they're do it, characters I can empathize with and a fulfilling payoff. And I'm not picky if the setup is somewhat ...exotic. One of the more intriguing setups I've read was about a lady taking pity on a homeless guy and things escalate to the point of them becoming an item in the end. One of the few romances I've managed to read cover to cover, mostly thanks to the attention to detail and groundedness (is that a word) the author put in.

 

[rockofages469]

I am fairly new to writing erotica. When I develop a story, I utilize people I know and build a short plot or scenario around them. Most everything is fiction. Occasionally, I will throw in a true non-fiction experience that I have had.

When reading a story, I enjoy a plot. If the characters are believable, any fantasy can seem real.

Just my two cents

 

[Bramblethorn]

What are the relationships going to be like after the threesome? So many stories I read, it's like "the three have sex, and everything's great afterward." No! There are now three sexual relationships instead of just one. That strikes me as being far more difficult to manage and navigate.

IME, sometimes one ends up with four sexual relationships - each pair has its own relationship going on, but there's also a three-person relationship that's more than just the sum of those pairs.

Threesomes are my favorite fantasy. A lot of the stories I'm thinking about writing have threesomes in them. But they are so implausible in so many stories.

My benchmark for realism in poly stories is whether the people involved have to set up a shared calendar app to schedule things.

(Kidding, but only very slightly.)

 

[jsmiam]

… My benchmark for realism in poly stories is whether the people involved have to set up a shared calendar app to schedule things.

(Kidding, but only very slightly.)

Amen! And exceptionally patient and good at dealing with last minute falling through of plans.

A dash of realism I tend to add is having the second (and the third, and fourth) women masturbate too, so that when they all have their multiple orgasms, the main character didn’t have to be personally responsible for them all. He faclititated.

And humor playing a role in the girls deciding the main character was worthy I think is far more common than erotica tends to acknowledge. I almost always include it.

But it’s still definitely fantasy. If fantasy fulfillment was as easy as erotica makes it out to be, we’d be out really doing it instead of writing about it.

 

[Lifestyle66]

OK, qualifying the scene with building the characters first, that might placate some haters.

I would find the "cold open" with such a scene totally plausible and would accept it, seeing that in my swinger-aware world of open marriages this is completely normal. So is answering the door to a "special" friend, "Come on in, John, how's it goin'? You know where to find her." I would expect some development in the next couple of 'graphs, though.

We can start a story with an eye-catching scene. But the longer it takes to give context (ie. they're swingers and this is normal for them), the more Attention Deficit readers we'll lose.

I'm writing to that same swinger-aware world, and there's no teaching the haters. There are no words to make them or actually most people understand the consensual variations among adults in life are not bad (as long as no one is injured), they're just different.

 

[MrPixel]

Amen! And exceptionally patient and good at dealing with last minute falling through of plans.
...
And humor playing a role in the girls deciding the main character was worthy I think is far more common than erotica tends to acknowledge. I almost always include it.

Exactly! Polyamory is no different than "traditional" one-on-one dating! You meet for dinner, you do not-sex things together, but it's three, or four, that find somebody's home for the evening's resolution. It's not all that difficult in 2+1 and 2+2 situations, as the '2' side is acting and responding as a single unit.

Humor? Abso-fucking-lutely! It is mandatory in non-standard relationships. If you cannot laugh at yourselves and the world around you about the ridiculousness of the circumstances, then you are headed for a hard fall.

But it’s still definitely fantasy. If fantasy fulfillment was as easy as erotica makes it out to be, we’d be out really doing it instead of writing about it.

Hmm. I mentioned above that I base my writings on first- and secondhand reality. So for me the realism cums first, the fantasy second. I guess that's unusual. Certainly feeds my impatience with stories where there's an unrealistic detail interrupting the action, a "Nope!".

 

[Lifestyle66]

...
Hmm. I mentioned above that I base my writings on first- and secondhand reality. So for me the realism cums first, the fantasy second. I guess that's unusual. Certainly feeds my impatience with stories where there's an unrealistic detail interrupting the action, a "Nope!".

I think many writers here read these erotic stories and create their own by extrapolating or re-compiling what they've read without understanding the little details.

I saw a good example of this in one story, which I critiqued the author by saying "New people aren't merely welcomed into a swinger house party at the door, based on saying someone else told them about it. You apparently haven't attended one." And within the story, he had people fucking on the living room couch, without scene settings such as first putting down towels or blankets.

First- and second-hand real-world experiences help give the story a better feel of "Yes, I could see that happening." In my latest posted story, I describe one woman who is a submissive, based on details explained to me by three people (a man and two women, none together) who all wanted to be subs in BDSM.

So, my advice to other writers would be to think of these swinger situations as you would in your own life. The rude and crude are less likely to be invited to nice house parties. You only invite people into your home based on trust. People (even swingers) trust those they know or meet via others they trust. And try to keep the place clean.

 

[8letters]

My benchmark for realism in poly stories is whether the people involved have to set up a shared calendar app to schedule things.

(Kidding, but only very slightly.)

Something that gives stories verisimilitude to me is if the characters have the "what happens tomorrow" mapped out before they have sex. And I can see in some poly stories that the people involved have agreed to integrating their lives so much that setting up a share calendar app would be appropriate.

Going back to Djmac1031's idea for a threesome, I can see "what happens tomorrow" being not much different than what happened before. Maybe they'll have the wife's best friend over to watch again sometime in the future, or maybe it was a one-time thing with her.

Going back to TadOverdon's talking about her throwback stories, I think those kind of stories work best when there's a kind of serendipitous approach to relationships, where pursuing good sex will lead to stable, long-term relationships all around. The key to me for those kind of stories is for everyone to have fun, and any kind of drama hurts the enjoyment of such stories. There's no need to worry about what happens tomorrow as sex will naturally sort everything out correctly.

 

[Djmac1031]

Something that gives stories verisimilitude to me is if the characters have the "what happens tomorrow" mapped out before they have sex. And I can see in some poly stories that the people involved have agreed to integrating their lives so much that setting up a share calendar app would be appropriate.

Going back to Djmac1031's idea for a threesome, I can see "what happens tomorrow" being not much different than what happened before. Maybe they'll have the wife's best friend over to watch again sometime in the future, or maybe it was a one-time thing with her.

Going back to TadOverdon's talking about her throwback stories, I think those kind of stories work best when there's a kind of serendipitous approach to relationships, where pursuing good sex will lead to stable, long-term relationships all around. The key to me for those kind of stories is for everyone to have fun, and any kind of drama hurts the enjoyment of such stories. There's no need to worry about what happens tomorrow as sex will naturally sort everything out correctly.

The scenario of my story, in a nutshell, is the evolution in the relationship between an older guy and young woman that started out as a strictly CFNM situation but has of course grown and expanded.

The friend has slowly become involved, mostly by just watching. Up until just the last chapter, the friend has never done more than watch the couple fool around a little.

The couple has had a conversation about how much further things could go with the friend and both are open to the idea of the threesome.

So all I'd really need to do now is explore the friends motivations on why she would be agreeable to taking things further as well.

Which I'm starting to write already. My last question (to myself really) is just how fast they all hop into bed after that and how far it truly goes.

My initial thought is to keep it at the slow burn pace I've been setting throughout the series. No wild, crazy threesome with lesbian sex the first time. But a fun, no pressure, light hearted exploration of things together to test their comfort levels.

I suppose any readers frustrated by me delaying a full blown threesome would just have to deal with it.

 

[TadOverdon]

Going back to TadOverdon's talking about her throwback stories, I think those kind of stories work best when there's a kind of serendipitous approach to relationships, where pursuing good sex will lead to stable, long-term relationships all around. The key to me for those kind of stories is for everyone to have fun, and any kind of drama hurts the enjoyment of such stories. There's no need to worry about what happens tomorrow as sex will naturally sort everything out correctly.

I read somewhere, and should have bookmarked it, that one of the major publishers of the porn books now found on sites like adultbookcovers and readmagic and tripleX had a list of rules that their writers had to follow and that a big one where the sex was concerned was "Everyone must ultimately enjoy everything that happens to them."

Thinking about it, I really wish I could find that article. It was written by someone who had worked for Greenleaf, I think it was, and the description of how the system worked to churn out the books fascinated me. There was a period where they had, in essence, a "factory floor" approach to the operation.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm surprised this comes up so often. First off, all erotica is a bit of a stretch in some sense. More importantly, every author and reader has a different idea of where the line of reality ends and absurdity begins...finally, some people don't mind totally absurd at all.

But if one wanted to take something that's a stretch-any incest story for example-its easy to do, by the use of something called conflict.

Example....father daughter story. Reality is it's nothing short of sick if a father looks at his daughter with lust regardless of what she looks like, we know this in the real world.

So, in our unrealistic tale of a daughter and father hooking up if at a point early in the story the father thinks "Jesus, what the fuck is wrong with you, that's your daughter!" you have now added a dose of reality, just enough to make it seem a little more plausible.

It works in any genre...a first time hotwife scenario where the husband has wanted to see her with another man...wife or husband pauses for a moment...do we really want this? Should we? That's what happens in real life, we question things like that.

I go overboard on occasions and on purpose to try and jar a reader. In a mother son story, the son found pictures of his mother in the father's desk, nasty ones of her giving head, naked etc....son takes them, father catches him with them and...slaps him in the face, then tells him he's going to think about whether or not he wants him living there anymore....that's hardcore, but pretty legit reaction to that.

My story Damn red Dress is in a class of its own for taking the fun lusty dad/daughter trope and turning it into a story of grief, addiction and sacrifice with nothing lusty about the sex scene. To this day I'm surprised at the good score and mostly positive comments, including many that applauded the actual story and writing, but wasn't sure they enjoyed it.

There's a comment comparing me to Kafka on it, not that its true in anyway-I'm not that good-but it shows there's people here who are impressed with something gritty and stark among their smut.

End lesson is like everything else. Write what you want and don't worry, there's an audience for it, and of course some detractors, but important thing is its your story, uninfluenced as its meant to be.

 

[StrangeLife]

I suppose my question is: Where do you draw the line between what's pure fantasy, and what's "realistic" fantasy?

A good question...

I think that "realism" in fantasy really has to do with sticking to the rules of your own premise. Like for instance, if you write a story featuring a hot vampire, you have created a premise for your story: "vampires exists".

As long as you stay within that premise, your story will feel realistic... well, authentic at least... despite involving a supernatural creature.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

A good question...

I think that "realism" in fantasy really has to do with sticking to the rules of your own premise. Like for instance, if you write a story featuring a hot vampire, you have created a premise for your story: "vampires exists".

As long as you stay within that premise, your story will feel realistic... well, authentic at least... despite involving a supernatural creature.

True. In my story "Mason and the Genie," I had a genie issue. Rather, the discovery of "genies are real and I have one" felt like a fun concept to explore. More unlikely than the genie from this writer's perspective? Mason's relationship with a phonesex operator. I worked just as hard trying to make their relationship feel believable.