"Real Patriots Ask Questions"

[Chicklet]

This is a letter to the editor that I snipped the other day. I hope you all enjoy it as much as I do.

It is strange to me how the word "patriotism," which in its most basic usage means a love of one's country, has become synonymous with a blind obedience to the government. Perhaps this would be patriotic if we lived in a dictatorship, since the principles of dictatorship mandate that everyone does whatever the dictator says.

The Nazi's were, indeed, patriotic in this sense. But as Americans we live in a democracy founded on the principals of citizen participation in the governmental affairs. Thus, to be patriotic in the United States of America one is obligated to question the government and take part in the decision making.

It seems to me, therefore, profoundly un-American and un-patriotic not to question our government, especially in a decision as profound as going to war. I think it's time we started to reclaim the words "patriot" and "American" for those whom in belongs: the people who have struggled in word and deed to bring us the freedoms that we so cherish.

And tell those who blindly follow what their leaders say to move Iraq, where they might feel more at home.

Thank you to the Register Guard.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

As I posted before

If you love your freedom thank a vet

 

[SilvaTungDevil]

When I first came to this board, I entered a thread about disrespecting the flag. I related a story wherein I forgot to take off a ballcap at a bball game during the National Anthem. To make a long story short, an old man snatched the cap from my head and screamed at me about disrespecting America. Upon reflection, I came to the conclusion that sometimes an act of disrespect can do more to honor our country and its ideals than following, without thought, the masses. Hey, I was young and full of piss and vinegar.
TB4P sported an AV last night of a kid being patriotic juxtaposed with a protestor being carried off by police. The title asked to compare the two. Funny thing is, I thought them to be much the same thing: a celebration of America.

 

[Linedrive]

It's a good message until the last line, where it insinuates that anyone who is for this action is blindly following their leadership. Somehow many of the anti-war crowd assume that they have some advanced knowledge that we don't that enables them to see beyond these mistruths.

Also pointing out if you think everything your government does is a conspiracy...it might be time to move.

 

[Propagandist]

 

[Azwed]

Dissent is patriotic.

Deal with it.

 

[Lost Cause]

Patriots are informed....

Instead of blindly following either argument, they check the solid reasons for actions, and not some irrelevant "what ifs" from either side that place others in danger.
The preservation of each side's nation is always the heart of their position.
The difference is each person's view of their government's role is shaped by individual needs, and sometimes fear at taking action.
The main position is always support of your country, and not what non-involved nations have to say when you're in the crosshairs of an enemy.
In the present campaign, citizens do not have access to the intelligence data that the leadership does, and have to search the sidelines for accurate evidence.

Patriotism is whatever label you want to put on it based on your prejudice, and your principles.

 

[Chicklet]

Re: Patriots are informed....

Patriotism is whatever label you want to put on it based on your prejudice, and your principles.

nod nod

that is a very good point. i like it.

-chicklet

 

[Purple Haze]

 

[zipman]

While I do support the war with Iraq, I also support those Americans who choose to protest and voice their opinion. Calling anyone who protests un-American is much more disturbing to me than people protesting against this war.

However, the protests must be peaceful and legal, as opposed to the protest last weekend in NYC (police were attacked) or the current protest in NYC (illegally blocking streets).

 

[bluespoke]

While I do support the war with Iraq, I also support those Americans who choose to protest and voice their opinion. Calling anyone who protests un-American is much more disturbing to me than people protesting against this war.

However, the protests must be peaceful and legal, as opposed to the protest last weekend in NYC (police were attacked) or the current protest in NYC (illegally blocking streets).

Exactly - what zip said!

 

[Hamletmaschine]

Not long ago, I showed a film in a class made by a Japanese-American filmmaker, which was about her parents' experiences in the concentration camps in this country during WWII. Her parents had never spoken to her about it, and she didn't even know that they'd been put in the camps, or how it had affected them (basically they lost a century-old family business and went from fairly well-to-do middle class status to paupers, having to rebuild their lives).

The film was not angry in tone, but more bewildered: how was this possible in this country? How can we make sure it doesn't happen again? It was quite moving, too, and many of the students cried during it.

But when I asked the obvioius question--so, should we be detaining and creating similar camps for Arab-Americans or Muslims?--most of the class said, yes, of course.

People don't think well when they are frightened, and this administration has done a good job of frightening people.

 

[brunhilda]

Chicklet, darlin, are you getting all serious on us?

 

[Linedrive]

HM-

I wouldn't advocate putting Arabs in a camp...how old were the people saying "yes"...?

 

[Hamletmaschine]

Early 20s ... college students.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

When I first came to this board, I entered a thread about disrespecting the flag. I related a story wherein I forgot to take off a ballcap at a bball game during the National Anthem. To make a long story short, an old man snatched the cap from my head and screamed at me about disrespecting America. Upon reflection, I came to the conclusion that sometimes an act of disrespect can do more to honor our country and its ideals than following, without thought, the masses. Hey, I was young and full of piss and vinegar.
TB4P sported an AV last night of a kid being patriotic juxtaposed with a protestor being carried off by police. The title asked to compare the two. Funny thing is, I thought them to be much the same thing: a celebration of America.

I remember that story about the baseball cap. If you went back and found it, I bet that I made some comments in that thread about the fact that people show patriotism in their own ways. In fact, I agreed with you, and think that you can show patriotism in your own way without infringing on others...like that guy did.

 

[Linedrive]

I think if you asked most of those who support this military action, you would find their views in the small minority. It shouldn't be discounted that people think that way, but I don't think there is a massive movement of Americans who want to see Arab detainment camps.

I've heard some pretty outrageous stuff coming from the anti-war side (We are living in Nazi Germany, President Bush is Hitler), but I discount it as the radicals and know that there are people who are against this war with good arguments and solid facts.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I think if you asked most of those who support this military action, you would find their views in the small minority. It shouldn't be discounted that people think that way, but I don't think there is a massive movement of Americans who want to see Arab detainment camps.

I've heard some pretty outrageous stuff coming from the anti-war side (We are living in Nazi Germany, President Bush is Hitler), but I discount it as the radicals and know that there are people who are against this war with good arguments and solid facts.

Good points....

 

[patient1]

Not long ago, I showed a film in a class made by a Japanese-American filmmaker, which was about her parents' experiences in the concentration camps in this country during WWII. Her parents had never spoken to her about it, and she didn't even know that they'd been put in the camps, or how it had affected them (basically they lost a century-old family business and went from fairly well-to-do middle class status to paupers, having to rebuild their lives).

The film was not angry in tone, but more bewildered: how was this possible in this country? How can we make sure it doesn't happen again? It was quite moving, too, and many of the students cried during it.

But when I asked the obvioius question--so, should we be detaining and creating similar camps for Arab-Americans or Muslims?--most of the class said, yes, of course.

People don't think well when they are frightened, and this administration has done a good job of frightening people.

This story frightens me. 2-dimensional reasoning (me now).

 

[The Heretic]

I agree with Zippy and I agree with LC, and Chicklet too - but I would add this:

While I am all for free speech, freedom of association and all that these rights entail; I don't often equate them with patriotism. Maintaining the ability and right of everybody to criticize is what this country is all about, but that doesn't mean that all criticism is patriotic - sometimes it is just the opposite. I have seen and heard a lot of criticism of the US that is downright unpatriotic, unAmerican, and the people spewing the nonsense most probably knew it to. Since it is their right to speak their mind I would not deride them for that - everybody has their opinion, and the right to speak it. I just prefer it be constructive criticism rather than the kind of nonsense we hear from people like Redwave, et. al.

 

[sufisaint]

It all depends on picture you get when you use the word patriot...to me its a rugged individualist who loves his country because it free but distrusts the government because it compromises individaulism by its very purpose. He or she follows their own conscience in wether to fight for his country.

 

[lavender]

1. Hamlet, that is just hard to believe that your students actually believe that shit.

2. I find it to be amusing that those who are opposed to the war as senseless violence, violently protest the war.

Whatever.

 

[Cheyenne]

Also pointing out if you think everything your government does is a conspiracy...it might be time to move.

I'm surprised she hasn't moved yet after that incident with Bush and the space shuttle.

 

[Bobmi357]

My initial impression of the war was definitely in the anti-war crowd. However, after a little digging I find myself supporting our actions, but still not supporting the administration.

I had felt that Bush had failed to make any connection to terrorism, let alone Osama Bin Laden. Further I felt this was largely an attempt on the part of the Bush administration to divert the american public from the fact that he still hadn't caught up with Bin Laden. I found it strange and disquieting to see that we literally shifted overnight from chasing Osama to gunning for Saddam.

Living and working online like I do, I started to poke around to see if I could figure out what I was missing.

I found urls like the one below telling about Iraq paying the families of the suicide bombers in Israel as much as $25,000.
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/04/04/Worldandnation/Iraq_ups_its_payments.shtml

Then comes in a report of US Special Forces in conjunction with Kurdish forces attacking an 800+ man strong terrorist training camp in Northern Iraq. A terrorist group with known ties to Osama, Hama, Islamic Jihad and a few others to name a few.

That Iraq has carried out systematic terrorism against its own people for years now, is well known.

Now in retrospect I do think we should have attacked Iraq and I will do everything in my power to support the troops over there. Mind you, that does not mean I support this current administration. I think old Georgie did a dismal job on the diplomatic front and even worse at home.

As citizens we have an obligation to investigate and question. We have a responsibility to ourselves and our children to ensure that our basic rights and liberties are preserved. I don't like some of the things the Government has done since 9/11. The "patriot act" terrifies me. But as far as this war goes, they are doing the right thing in my opinion.