re: orgasm denial and motives

[mitchell67]

re: orgasm denial and motives

Is there a greater relationship between sub women as opposed to nonsubmissive types who have difficulty achieving orgasm either initially or during certain periods of their lives?

I've been intimate with three sub women who have been at the very least challenged with experiencing orgasms. I wonder whether there's a psychological connection or a simple coincidence given the number of woman in the general populace with a similar condition.

I've thought about the motives that some subs have to engage in orgasm denial or delay and pondered whether in fact there is a connection. I've always been of the opinion that orgasm denial is about heightening the builldup but now I wonder whether there is for some subs a deeper need to be allowed to climax, or to be made to feel worthy of the ecstacy.

Can anybody offer something more to this inquiry? My present sub whom I plan on meeting soon has told me that she has never had an orgasm and I'd like to know how to approach the topic so as I don't compound the challenge but I'd also enjoy being as much of a help to her as possible.And to clarify, she's very sexually knowledgeable, has been with men both doms and not. The only apparent link might be her mother with some naive and selfrepressing notions about women and sexual pleasure.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Hmmmmm. Really interesting question. I've never thought much about it. I know that for a long time, orgasm was difficult for me to achieve, but as I learned more about my body, I learned how to control it better, therefore, I was better able to make sure I achieved them. For me, denial is two-fold - yes, it certainly contributes to the intensity, but it also is a pretty powerful way for him to exert his control or maybe me to demonstrate my submission. And of course, it can be a great test item if he's holding a bullet against your clit while telling you that you can't orgasm or even an interesting form of punishment. I'll be interested in the other responses you get here.

 

[FurryFury]

I believe some females have problems orgasming for whatever reason. My guess is it's more mental than physical but I'm just talking off the top of my head there.

I've always found the orgasm control/denial thing an interesting concept. It's the sort of concept that it seems to me a male would come up. He might not realize that all females don't come so easily or at all.

I would submit that you do not decide you are going to "cure" her. This puts too great a pressure on the both of you. I wouldn't play with orgasm control or denial at all until and unless there is orgasm potential to control and deny. There are many other fun ways to do things to her other than this one area.

Fury

 

[ownedsubgal]

am going piggyback Fury's comment that you do not attempt to control something that may not yet or ever exist. as for some relation between having difficulty in experiencing orgasm and submissiveness...i can see how one might think they could be related, and actually for a long time i had this belief, thinking it was just another part of being submissive, my difficulty with orgasm. however i have found over the years that i seem to be unusual in this regard.

i've never denied myself orgasm, and no Dominant has ever attempted to deny me orgasm. it is just something that very rarely happens (not even once a yr)...and when it does happen, it comes with so much awkwardness and guilt that the fleeting physical pleasure of it is quickly lost and forgotten. i have always just thought of sex as a means for me to please a man and be used by a man. my own physical pleasure has never been a part of the equation for me. it's not what matters. what matters is him, and his needs and desires (whoever the "him" might be). as a submissive, this is how i obtain my greatest pleasure...in pleasing another. so the whole orgasm denial/control thing would never work on me as 1. i have great difficulty achieving orgasm, and 2. it's not something i long for at all (therefore i can't be driven crazy with need). could this have something to do with my being submissive? i think so, but it's obviously not the case for all or even most submissives.

fortunately for me, i have a Master who has no interest in orgasm control and views sex the way i do...as a means to please him, period.

 

[mrmadman]

Oooh, I like ownedsubgal's attitude, but if your girl doesn't share it, I'm gonna go with Furry on this one. Orgasm control/denial just doesn't make sense if there's no orgasm; deal with the orgasm issue separately (or not at all, a la ownedsub), and meanwhile, stick with the other 999 ways to bruise your lover.

 

[rosco rathbone]

fortunately for me, i have a Master who has no interest in orgasm control and views sex the way i do...as a means to please him, period.

I think I'm your Master's good twin.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I think I'm your Master's good twin.

..and how do you figure you're the good one? lol

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't believe the orgasm difficulty thing is a subbmissive or vanilla thing, it just is a difficult area for many women, often made more difficult by women who like to fake it and then men get the impression it is something all women do as easily as men...and it can become a vicious circle. As to denial being a male idea, I am not so sure on that either as it seems a big thing for a percentage of both female and male subs, female and male Dominants. I think the whole idea is more about control, getting a person to the point where the body wants to (IOW controlling their desire and response), has to explode, then telling them they can't(controlling their right to respond)...it is not always easy to control from either side.

Not orgasming is more pleasing to the Dominant because it is then all about their pleasure? Guess that depends on the Dominant. I know in this house, and all the Dominants I have had any experience or discussion with, it was more pleasureable for them if the submissive achieves orgasm...for some it is a physical gratification (there is nothing like the pleasureable feeling of a pulsating vagina wrapped around cock or fist for most men)...for some it is a sense they have been able to drive the submissive to those heights, often where others have failed, and can if they want then take it away. Of course there is also the sadistic element when an experienced and nasty Dominant can use it to make the submissive a quivering heap of begging and pleasure which can be repeated over and over until the begging turns to pleas to stop, and pleasure becomes more exhaustion and pain...also is very powerful in showing who has control of the submissive's sexuality and responses, who can take it or leave it as the Dominant mood demands.

Catalina

 

[Quint]

Heehee.

VanillasRus54: "yeah, my partner likes to hurt me during sex"
2strait4u: "whoa dude, no way!"

slutsatronics5000: "yeah, my partner only likes to hurt me during sex"
m1zzellsb1zzell: "whoa dude, no way!"

 

[Exogenous]

…

I've thought about the motives that some subs have to engage in orgasm denial or delay and pondered whether in fact there is a connection. I've always been of the opinion that orgasm denial is about heightening the builldup but now I wonder whether there is for some subs a deeper need to be allowed to climax, or to be made to feel worthy of the ecstacy.

For me it's not about being "worthy of the ecstacy". For me it's about the build up. I know I am worthy and I know my Master loves it when I come for him. It's all about his control, for me. "Desire Increases, When Fulfillment Is Postponed (Pierre Comeille)"

... As to denial being a male idea, I am not so sure on that either as it seems a big thing for a percentage of both female and male subs, female and male Dominants. I think the whole idea is more about control, getting a person to the point where the body wants to (IOW controlling their desire and response), has to explode, then telling them they can't(controlling their right to respond)...it is not always easy to control from either side.

Not orgasming is more pleasing to the Dominant because it is then all about their pleasure? Guess that depends on the Dominant. I know in this house, and all the Dominants I have had any experience or discussion with, it was more pleasureable for them if the submissive achieves orgasm...for some it is a physical gratification (there is nothing like the pleasureable feeling of a pulsating vagina wrapped around cock or fist for most men)...for some it is a sense they have been able to drive the submissive to those heights, often where others have failed, and can if they want then take it away. Of course there is also the sadistic element when an experienced and nasty Dominant can use it to make the submissive a quivering heap of begging and pleasure which can be repeated over and over until the begging turns to pleas to stop, and pleasure becomes more exhaustion and pain...also is very powerful in showing who has control of the submissive's sexuality and responses, who can take it or leave it as the Dominant mood demands.

Catalina

I am blessed that I have no problem having an orgasm.

I have come when my master merely sucked and bit my nipple for a short while and he finally allowed me to do so.

I have come when my master merely touched his finger to my clit and held it there, not moving it, all the while I was begging him to stimulate me and he was...just with his quiet touch. When I begged him to let me come he said no, until I sobbed and begged him. Then he finally whispered yes and I exploded under him.

Sometimes he uses toys, sometimes he uses his touch, sometimes he uses words. I am fortunate in that I am so sensitive in that I can orgasm in any way that he desires.

Yet, for me, the more he denies me, the more hungry I become, and I love being denied. When I am finally allowed to orgasm it's extremely powerful. Well, even when I am not denied, it's still incredible. But there is that luscious anticipation when he denies me. He controls my orgasms in all ways. Guess that's just my "thing".

Sometimes, I am unable to orgasm when I am very stressed or extremely tired.

I do agree with Catalina in that, with my Master, he derives much satisfaction from my orgasms. Sometimes he has so much fun in making me come over and over again until I am exhausted and I'm begging him to stop! However, I do thoroughly enjoy it when he denies me. I love his control. I will be honest in that sometimes I have been unable to stop my orgasm, before he gives his permission, for which I have been punished. But for the most part, he is very clever in how he builds me up then subsides just when I can't take it anymore and he knows I can't hold back. Then builds me up again, then stops. He loves to hear me beg.

 

[mitchell67]

re: course correction

I'll try to head this discussion back to the topic I had originally proposed. I agree that orgasm difficulty (there must be an elegant Latin or Greek term for this) is pirmarily a mental condition and that it occurs in submissive and vanilla women.
The challenge then is to understand what mental hurdles sub women have to overcome. I wanted to hear from other sub women who have no such difficulties but who also play with orgasm denial either with their dominant or alone.
I believe that as complex as the female sex is there is no unique mental block to explain every difficulty achieving orgasm, but for women who do have difficulties and who identify as submissive, I hypothesized that the concept of orgasm denial might explain something or at least, it might open up some avenues of inquiry.

The process of her developing her ability to have orgasms is potentially fraught with peril and I would like to help her avoid that. I do not want her to get stuck in a rut nor start in with any bad habits that might diminish her longterm pleasure or independent sexuality. (This is quite challenging to discuss!)

What I want is for her to be able to orgasm to her fullest capacity. I want to not get in the way of that by the introduction of a D/s paradigm that might in some way lead her to rely on it. I want her orgasm to be her own; if she chooses to 'give' it to me, then it must be of her own doing. I'm nervous that such a state might be more difficult to attain if she exclusively ties in her orgasm with the D/s power exchange. Does this make sense to anybody else?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'll try to head this discussion back to the topic I had originally proposed. I agree that orgasm difficulty (there must be an elegant Latin or Greek term for this) is pirmarily a mental condition and that it occurs in submissive and vanilla women.
The challenge then is to understand what mental hurdles sub women have to overcome. I wanted to hear from other sub women who have no such difficulties but who also play with orgasm denial either with their dominant or alone.
I believe that as complex as the female sex is there is no unique mental block to explain every difficulty achieving orgasm, but for women who do have difficulties and who identify as submissive, I hypothesized that the concept of orgasm denial might explain something or at least, it might open up some avenues of inquiry.

The process of her developing her ability to have orgasms is potentially fraught with peril and I would like to help her avoid that. I do not want her to get stuck in a rut nor start in with any bad habits that might diminish her longterm pleasure or independent sexuality. (This is quite challenging to discuss!)

What I want is for her to be able to orgasm to her fullest capacity. I want to not get in the way of that by the introduction of a D/s paradigm that might in some way lead her to rely on it. I want her orgasm to be her own; if she chooses to 'give' it to me, then it must be of her own doing. I'm nervous that such a state might be more difficult to attain if she exclusively ties in her orgasm with the D/s power exchange. Does this make sense to anybody else?

Sometimes it is a combination of physiological and psychological problems which inhibit a woman from achieving orgasm. Part of what may help is understanding it may also not be what you want, but what she wants, even prehaps subconsciously due to some belief or feeling she holds for what ever reason. If a woman has difficulties, it is going to be more difficult if not downright impossible to change anything if she does not want to orgasm. There can be a multitude of reasons ranging from self image or esteem issues, to moral codes.

My advice to you would be not so much to ask us as to talk with her and find out where her head is at, as without that you are going in blind. She is the expert in this situation, not us, not you. For instance, when she says she has not had an orgasm does she mean ever (even alone through masturbation) or does she mean never during intercourse or with a partner? Though she also says she is sexually experienced, I have known many women who said the same and yet on talking with them, really had lead a very limited sexual life but because they didn't know of other possibilities, felt they were very experienced and had tried it all. All these things need to be discussed between you, explored as to what they really mean when you get down to the nitty gritty, and then from there you have a basis for deciding what the necessary and/or adviseable steps might be. Good luck.

Catalina

 

[wish2bhorni]

before i had my first orgasm (in college with a very competent lover), i had sexual pleasures with men (i am female) with build-ups to sexual release. but it wasn't as consuming and strong as orgasm (i found out). even now many decades later, there are build-ups and releases and there are build-ups and orgasms. my suggestion would be to learn each other's bodies, responses, and experiment with what pleasures each other. if orgasm results, fine; if not, fine - enjoy the play. it can be vanilla or d/s scenes or both. each pairing of couples interacting sexually is going to vary (day to day, scene to scene, time to time). notice, respond, and enjoy.

 

[Stefani]

My Mistress/girlfriend is very much into "edging."

When we spend a weekend or even just a night together, she'll tease me unmercifully to the edge of orgasm and just stop. And she does it over, and over, and over again.

For example, if we're together Friday night, she'll make love to me with her strapon on. It'll go on for hours. She'll have her orgasm, and then just continue making love to me - in a half dozen different positions - till she has me screaming and begging for release.

Eventually she'll tire and stop and say she wants to go to sleep. She'll wrap an arm around me, and expect me to be able to sleep. She does of course, quite soundly.

In the morning she'll make love to me again with her strapon - and again she'll cum, leaving me frustrated. Sometimes Saturday afternoon after lunch she'll say, "Let's take a nap." What she really means is, she wants to get into bed and tease me unmercifully with her vibrators.

Saturday night we'll go out, and come home, and it's more of the same. She'll make love to me, and have a wonderful orgasm. By this time i am practically in tears, begging her to please let me cum. She says she finds my begging a turnon.

When we go to sleep Saturday night, i find it almost impossible to sleep. I am so turned on, and in need of relief, i'll try anything to get off. I'll wait for her to fall alseep, and try to masturbate myself, but she has this uncanny radar. She'll wake and move my hand away from myself, stopping me. Usually she'll end up restraining my hands, so i can't touch myself. I'll even try humping against her leg or a pillow or the mattress to get off, but i never seem to be able to orgasm that way. It just serves to frustrate me further.

By Sunday morning my body is going nuts. I feel like i am going out of my mind with lust. Last Sunday morning she lay on her back, and put on her biggest strapon - it is modelled after the porn star Jeff Stryker's cock. It must be about 10". She'll tell me to get on her cock and ride it.

When I came, it was incredible. Having been teased and made love to all weekend long, when she finally does let me have an orgasm, it is mind-blowing. I feel like i am going to black out. Afterwards she'll laugh and tease me and say the neighbors all around us must have heard me, i am that loud.

For me, orgasm denial, is both a blessing and a curse. I love the way my girlfriend teases me... but sometimes it really does drive me crazy. Fortunately she is a great lover, and eventually will let me cum. And when i do, it's well worth the wait.

 

[passiongirl19]

masturbation

i go though period of either masturbating a lot of just not doing it for weeks or months.

weird, me.

Jess

 

[mitchell67]

re: definitions and organisms

before i had my first orgasm (in college with a very competent lover), i had sexual pleasures with men (i am female) with build-ups to sexual release. but it wasn't as consuming and strong as orgasm (i found out). even now many decades later, there are build-ups and releases and there are build-ups and orgasms. my suggestion would be to learn each other's bodies, responses, and experiment with what pleasures each other. if orgasm results, fine; if not, fine - enjoy the play. it can be vanilla or d/s scenes or both. each pairing of couples interacting sexually is going to vary (day to day, scene to scene, time to time). notice, respond, and enjoy.

The above account, in part, explains the difficulty in dealing with this amorphous problem. What exactly are releases but not orgasms? Are they weak orgasms or another phenomenon entirely? Maybe miniorgasms is a better applicable term? The sub in question has told me that she often stops during the buildup while masturbating because she gets frustrated that she's alone.
You didn't say anything about masturbation, wish. Had you had much experience before being with a sexual partner and what did you learn on your own?

I agree, Catalina, and this last comment underlines the challenge, that I'll need to clearly understand terms as they apply to her. Do women have enough of a vocabulary to be able to talk about what is going on with their bodies with regards to sexual pleasure and release?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree, Catalina, and this last comment underlines the challenge, that I'll need to clearly understand terms as they apply to her. Do women have enough of a vocabulary to be able to talk about what is going on with their bodies with regards to sexual pleasure and release?

LOL, well some of us do. Must admit I was surprised when I discovered my body did all the textbook things described prior to and during orgasm (up until then I was too busy just enjoying them to the fullest to take particular notice)...noticeable pink/red flush across the breasts, swelling of the breasts, nipple erection, increased lubrication (like I needed that given I am usually soaked long before then ), swelling and flattening of the labia in a way which opens ready for penetration, tightening of the vagina, increased sensitivity all over...just so glad I am a woman and I get to do this over and over and over.

Catalina

 

[siren319]

interesting question

Is there a greater relationship between sub women as opposed to nonsubmissive types who have difficulty achieving orgasm either initially or during certain periods of their lives?

I've been intimate with three sub women who have been at the very least challenged with experiencing orgasms. I wonder whether there's a psychological connection or a simple coincidence given the number of woman in the general populace with a similar condition.

I've thought about the motives that some subs have to engage in orgasm denial or delay and pondered whether in fact there is a connection. I've always been of the opinion that orgasm denial is about heightening the builldup but now I wonder whether there is for some subs a deeper need to be allowed to climax, or to be made to feel worthy of the ecstacy.

Can anybody offer something more to this inquiry? My present sub whom I plan on meeting soon has told me that she has never had an orgasm and I'd like to know how to approach the topic so as I don't compound the challenge but I'd also enjoy being as much of a help to her as possible.And to clarify, she's very sexually knowledgeable, has been with men both doms and not. The only apparent link might be her mother with some naive and selfrepressing notions about women and sexual pleasure.

There are several things that can interfere with orgasm. And on the lines of what you are talking about is where the subs mind is. I cannot cum if I am not comfortable sharing something so intimate. A dom cannot make me cum if I'm not into it. Having said that for non-dom contact I will likely just make him cum quicker so I can leave.

Women are unlike men. There has to be several pieces in place in order for her to reach a heightened sexual level. 1: Trust, current D/s relationship was the first time I would actually bring myself to orgasm in the presence of another. Initially it took a little extra patience on his part. Now pleasing him this way also increases my own sensativity to it.

As an assertive, challenging sub I would say, use your first encounters to boost her comfort and trust in and with you. Establishing control should never be first on the list. If you are truely dominant, the control will almost hand itself to you as soon as she is comfortable.

For women often every sensation is involved. Scent, sight, sound, touch all of it. Put effort into every part. It pays off.

 

[siren319]

It was only a couple years ago that I realized the same thing

LOL, well some of us do. Must admit I was surprised when I discovered my body did all the textbook things described prior to and during orgasm (up until then I was too busy just enjoying them to the fullest to take particular notice)...noticeable pink/red flush across the breasts, swelling of the breasts, nipple erection, increased lubrication (like I needed that given I am usually soaked long before then ), swelling and flattening of the labia in a way which opens ready for penetration, tightening of the vagina, increased sensitivity all over...just so glad I am a woman and I get to do this over and over and over.

Catalina

I was thoroughly enjoying orgasm before them, but it has only been in the last few years that I noticed the same thing. The swelling and flattening confused me because it wasn't something I was aware of. The other thing that surprised me recently was becoming aware of the difference between orgasm and cumming, I had never been aware of the lag time in between until I achieved greater climax. Now the sensations involved with building a climax like that are almost orgasmic in themselves because of the anticipation.

 

[FurryFury]

Once upon a time, I had a task to masturbate for one minute, then stop for one minute and NOT come.

Then two minutes and so on to ten minutes.

I never thought this would be a problem. I am not that easy to make come anyway.

Boy oh boy was I wrong. At somewhere around four minutes, I came. It wasn't a satisfying one and it surprised me. It also made me feel REALLY guilty but it happened. I would have never expected it to happen.

Fury