Re: estragon

[RodenAddison]

Re: estragon

I can sum up what estragon's editing and suggestions have meant to me in one word. Encouragement. Thank you my friend for all you have done for me.

Sorry to see you hang up your editing shingle for the time being.

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYNnpckOdU Ray Lamontagne " God Willin' And The Creek Don't Rise" Ray Lamontagne " God Willin' And The Creek Don't Rise"

 

[DG Hear]

I can sum up what estragon's editing and suggestions have meant to me in one word. Encouragement. Thank you my friend for all you have done for me.

Sorry to see you hang up your editing shingle for the time being.

Cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmYNnpckOdU Ray Lamontagne " God Willin' And The Creek Don't Rise" Ray Lamontagne " God Willin' And The Creek Don't Rise"

I agree, he is a really good editor. His suggestion on usually right on the money. To me he is an on line best friend as well as an editor. I often use his suggestions which make my stories better in my opinion. I would like to find another one willing to put up with an old man and his flaws and mistakes. Any takers?

Estragon is still on the threads and making comments. He has just given up the editing for person reasons. He's helped a lot of writers and deserved the credit.

 

[lovecraft68]

Estragon has never officially edited for me, but has done a couple of quibbles after my stories have posted.

he's helpful and comes across as a genuinely nice guy.

It's too bad he's given up editing because they are hard to come by.

I'm also going to add that its a shame a certain poster here has constantly bashed him for not being a "real" editor.

I hope many post to this thread and the aforementioned dink sees it and realizes just how cared for these horrible "non professional" editors, and Estragon specifically, are appreciated.

 

[LaRascasse]

Estragon has left the other volunteer editors here some pretty darn big boots to fill.

 

[estragon]

LaRascasse and all other posters, thank you for your kind words.

I have been casting about, trying to see if there are any editors with good track records available to work with the writers with whom I formerly worked.

I purposely have not posted on the Editors' Forum, because all the reports I have seen from that quarter have been less than encouraging, not to say disappointing (that's another thread).

But I will ask any writers whose editors they have found good and responsive, if they would ask their editors if they are able to undertake any more work.

 

[DG Hear]

LaRascasse and all other posters, thank you for your kind words.

I have been casting about, trying to see if there are any editors with good track records available to work with the writers with whom I formerly worked.

I purposely have not posted on the Editors' Forum, because all the reports I have seen from that quarter have been less than encouraging, not to say disappointing (that's another thread).

But I will ask any writers whose editors they have found good and responsive, if they would ask their editors if they are able to undertake any more work.

Thank you Estragon, I know that was partially for me and I appreciate it. If you get any replies, please let them know I am an amature and not likely to change. LOL
With Respect
DG

 

[Saxon Stonedyke]

I've stopped in here a few times today intending to post but not knowing how to say what I want to say. Like DGH and others Estragon has been a great encouragement to me. Not only has he helped with his editing but also his friendship. He has not only been a source of enthusiasm but also a source of confidence for this newbie. If you look at my stories posted here you can tell which ones he edited and which ones came before from the scores. There are many of us that will miss his excellent editing and mentoring.

Also like DGH I am not sure I really want to continue now, I am not even sure I am capable of it.

 

[TxRad]

I've stopped in here a few times today intending to post but not knowing how to say what I want to say. Like DGH and others Estragon has been a great encouragement to me. Not only has he helped with his editing but also his friendship. He has not only been a source of enthusiasm but also a source of confidence for this newbie. If you look at my stories posted here you can tell which ones he edited and which ones came before from the scores. There are many of us that will miss his excellent editing and mentoring.

Also like DGH I am not sure I really want to continue now, I am not even sure I am capable of it.

You must have learned some things from the edits. Apply those as best you can and hope to find another editor or at least a beta-reader. You also might try reading the story aloud as that gives you a feel for the flow. If you stumble in reading aloud there is a rough spot to fix. Also try rereading the story with a totally different font than the one you write in. Wrong words and things the eye would normally glide over will jump out at you.

But in any case, you won't ever grow as a writer unless you write.

This is from the guy who had to mow the English teachers grass and sometimes use a lawnmower to pass high school English.

And that was a damned long time ago.

 

[estragon]

I'm sorry to have to shout, really I am: DON'T STOP WRITING!

Saxon, DG Hear, MFG, and all the guys for whom I copy edited--I copy edited for you for one reason only: I thought you had talent and ability. I still do. Don't give up. Especially don't give up on yourselves.

There are other editors. There's even places on line and in books where you can check on grammar, spelling, and all the small change of writing.

But there's no place you can find talent if you don't have it. Trust me! I know.

So dammit!! This is not a fucking funeral. Go and write.

 

[_Lynn_]

You must have learned some things from the edits. Apply those as best you can and hope to find another editor or at least a beta-reader. You also might try reading the story aloud as that gives you a feel for the flow. If you stumble in reading aloud there is a rough spot to fix. Also try rereading the story with a totally different font than the one you write in. Wrong words and things the eye would normally glide over will jump out at you.

But in any case, you won't ever grow as a writer unless you write.

This is from the guy who had to mow the English teachers grass and sometimes use a lawnmower to pass high school English.

And that was a damned long time ago.

I agree with Tx. You should have learned something from the suggestions made to your past stories. Use them in the new stories you write to make them better. Then ask questions. Find someone to do a read for you. There are a lot of people on this forum who have a great deal of knowledge when it comes to writing. Send one of them a PM. Ask for help.

 

[RodenAddison]

You also might try reading the story aloud as that gives you a feel for the flow. If you stumble in reading aloud there is a rough spot to fix. Also try rereading the story with a totally different font than the one you write in. Wrong words and things the eye would normally glide over will jump out at you.

Good points, TX. I also use calibre to convert the file to epub and throw it on an e-reader. This seems, for me, to see it as a reader might. I think I'm heading to the 'four rewrites' (okay, digital edit) mode in order to catch everything I can.

Everyone should also take the time to polish up their grammar. One of the things I've found is that often it isn't grammar but rather usage that is the issue, and depending on where you're checking your usage, there is a LOT of variation. To me that means . . . a lot of usage is negotiable.

I for one, hope to find another editor. estragon's input has been invaluable to me. I've learned a lot. I appreciate the time and effort. It takes longer than most people think. If I have to let my stories lay for a while so I can look at it with a fresh eye, then so be it.

Cheers everyone. Keep writing.

 

[RodenAddison]

,,,,,,,

 

[PayDay]

Fuck this.

I'm dissenting; I don't care if I get flamed.

This message contains feedback for: PayDay
About the submission: All Wrong and Backasswards
This feedback was sent by: estragon42 @ e-mail addy

Quibbles to All Wrong and Backasswards

Comments:

Amy, to quote you “All comment and feedback (even the bad ones) are appreciated.” I take it you meant “all comments and feedback.”

I meant what I wrote. Also, poor choice of name drops. Get good, and oh please, continue on:

Please understand I don’t quibble bad writers. But this story has problems. Fredrick is unbelievable. He waits six years for a woman who is cheating on him and lying, and whose major talent is fucking. Annabelle, on the other hand, is a class-A tramp; why Freddie doesn’t kick her to the curb on Day One, “Effect” or no “Effect”, I cannot imagine. Dave is some friend; he lets his buddy walk into an ambush and says nothing. And Mike is brain-dead. If Fredrick has an IQ above cool room temperature he should lose both of them, and get Annabelle tested monthly if he keeps her around.

...<Edited out useless corrections in an ignorant and snooty tone with words like: No, Should Be, Wrong, Clumsy, Misplaced Emphasis, Unclear, What Does This Mean In English, Tautology, One Word - Not Two, and not one maybe.>...

Should this have been in LW, not EC? I know they aren't married, but this seems like a natural for LW.

What, like I didn't already know? Too bad you are only a copy editor, or you wouldn't have missed all the writing.

estragon just wants to correct things to read in a way he/she wants. Fuck this person; he/she's an asshole who tells you what he/she thinks is wrong - and he/she doesn't even say please without seeming rude.

BTW There were only a couple of typos, maybe two: Spelling errors are solicitation for editing? What? What makes you think I wouldn't eventually fix or change some things (and since then, I have, with none of your corrections)?

I have no doubt in my mind that estragon is at least one of the commenting Anon trolls on this site.

/end dissent.

 

[estragon]

PayDay, I never once commented anonymously on this site. I have no alt. I post under my own handle, never otherwise. I'm perfectly prepared to take whatever hits anyone cares to give.

As for the rest of your criticism, to the extent it's a personal attack, I'll stake my reputation against your any time, anywhere. As for feedback, if you truly don't wish it, you have the absolute power to disable comments and feedback on any story you post with a few mouseclicks.

But if you wanted feedback, I gave it. If you wanted slavish adulation, and not criticism, you should have said so. I don't dispense that article, but others might.

Finally, with thanks to my friend Roden Addison, please save the eulogies for my funeral. Reading your comments, I feel like I'm in the box at a wake. I'd rather be having a few drinks with my friends.

 

[PayDay]

As for the rest of your criticism, to the extent it's a personal attack, I'll stake my reputation against your any time, anywhere. As for feedback, if you truly don't wish it, you have the absolute power to disable comments and feedback on any story you post with a few mouseclicks.

Reputation on an Internet site full of perverts? Project much?

It's not slander, libel, or a personal attack if I have evidence.

But if you wanted feedback, I gave it. If you wanted slavish adulation, and not criticism, you should have said so. I don't dispense that article, but others might.

Called it:

and he/she doesn't even say please without seeming rude.

Let's go to the tape:

This message contains feedback for:
This feedback was sent by: Anonymous

Comments:

PayDay, Got your reply to my quibbles on Assbackwards. Thanks for taking the time and effort. I guess we must agree to disagree. I'll spare you any further feedback, as what I have supplied you don't want. Best of luck in future. (signed) estragon

What a dick.

 

[Athalia]

I'm sorry to have to shout, really I am: DON'T STOP WRITING!

Saxon, DG Hear, MFG, and all the guys for whom I copy edited--I copy edited for you for one reason only: I thought you had talent and ability. I still do. Don't give up. Especially don't give up on yourselves.

There are other editors. There's even places on line and in books where you can check on grammar, spelling, and all the small change of writing.

But there's no place you can find talent if you don't have it. Trust me! I know.

So dammit!! This is not a fucking funeral. Go and write.

Well said, dear! And allow me to add my thanks to you for your encouragement.

There is another solution for those of your clients who are now editor-bereft: edit for each other. This is the arrangement I have with another author ... he edits mine, I edit his, and neither of us edits anybody else. That keeps our workload light, and the ongoing relationship allows us to get a better insight into what we expect from each other. And neither of us has to deal with random illiteracy.

So pair up for the square dance, partners!

 

[RodenAddison]

. . . estragon just wants to correct things to read in a way he/she wants . . .

PayDay has obviously never had anything edited by estragon. (Sorry about the near death experience I gave you with that bit from Big Yellow Taxi, estra.)

One of the things I really appreciated about the edits I received was that suggestions were given, not changes made. It was always up to me. Everything was open and above board. He was very good about letting me develop my own stories. The editing was largely just grammar and punctuation related.

I learned so much from you, estragon. You are appreciated.

 

[ILmonamour]

Did I hear drinks...don't think I wouldn't bring a case of cold ones and pitchers of margaritas, E.

Should we start making invitations?