Rape and Erotic Horror

[AMoveableBeast]

Do the rules prohibiting rape still apply in the erotic horror category? It makes sense that it would, but this seems nonsensical, considering that in a genre rife with demonic possession and murder, rape seems almost--and I mean absolutely no offense here to those who have suffered a personal experience with this act--tame in comparison.

 

[sr71plt]

Apparently not. I have a vampire novel serialized on here that really goes to town on that--raping to death. Sailed right through the submissions process.

But . . . wait . . . NEMouse will be along in a minute to give you a rant on rape stories. It's one of his bugaboos.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Apparently not. I have a vampire novel serialized on here that really goes to town on that--raping to death. Sailed right through the submissions process.

But . . . wait . . . NEMouse will be along in a minute to give you a rant on rape stories. It's one of his bugaboos.

Really? That's interesting. Is the rape sexualized? And is the rapist a protagonist or an antagonist in the story?

 

[sr71plt]

Really? That's interesting. Is the rape sexualized? And is the rapist a protagonist or an antagonist in the story?

Protagonist. He's not a traditional vampire. He lives on the "essence" of men. Sucking them dry of body fluids and fucking them to death. Of course he puts them in a state where most of them love it as the ultimate fuck. I don't know how many chapters of it are posted here--maybe twenty or so. He nails someone in nearly every chapter. And later on has a sidekick.

I have a few short stories with the same sort of vampire doing the same sort of thing. All the ones here posted without a problem.

Apparently if it's supernatural in any way, it's all free game here.

It's not my normal fare, though. But I test out themes across the board.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Protagonist. He's not a traditional vampire. He lives on the "essence" of men. Sucking them dry of body fluids and fucking them to death. Of course he puts them in a state where most of them love it as the ultimate fuck. I don't know how many chapters of it are posted here--maybe twenty or so. He nails someone in nearly every chapter. And later on has a sidekick.

I have a few short stories with the same sort of vampire doing the same sort of thing. All the ones here posted without a problem.

Apparently if it's supernatural in any way, it's all free game here.

It's not my normal fare, though. But I test out themes across the board.

Is it the supernatural element, then, that enables it? I am writing a story that contains rape as a fairly vital part of the story, but it is a more mundane horror tale.

 

[Darkniciad]

Supernatural stories seem to have more leeway depending on the nature of the characters ( vampires with mind control abilities, for example ), but they still get on the "rape fantasy vs. rapist fantasy" scale. The more it's about the rapist, the less likely it is that it will pass muster.

Is it a horror story with non-con elements, or is it a non-con story with horror elements? Considering you're saying "mundane" there's a good chance it's the latter, and probably will be judged on the standard non-con scale.

There are so many grey areas with Non-con, though there are strangely strict prohibitions ( nothing even remotely non-con in the celeb category, for example ) About all you can do is use your best judgement, then put it in the queue if you believe it's within bounds, and see if it gets accepted.

 

[sr71plt]

Is it the supernatural element, then, that enables it? I am writing a story that contains rape as a fairly vital part of the story, but it is a more mundane horror tale.

If it's all humans, getting a rape story accepted that doesn't have the required nonconsent formula (at some point gotta decide it was wanted) is a problem. (NEMouse should be along soon to point out that such stories do get posted to Lit., though.)

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Supernatural stories seem to have more leeway depending on the nature of the characters ( vampires with mind control abilities, for example ), but they still get on the "rape fantasy vs. rapist fantasy" scale. The more it's about the rapist, the less likely it is that it will pass muster.

Is it a horror story with non-con elements, or is it a non-con story with horror elements? Considering you're saying "mundane" there's a good chance it's the latter, and probably will be judged on the standard non-con scale.

There are so many grey areas with Non-con, though there are strangely strict prohibitions ( nothing even remotely non-con in the celeb category, for example ) About all you can do is use your best judgement, then put it in the queue if you believe it's within bounds, and see if it gets accepted.

It is a horror story that happens to contain sexual elements. The rape is not overly graphic, but it is disturbing. To be honest, I think it may be more horror than erotic, but since sex seems to trump all other ingredients in the stew in American culture, I feel it is probably erotica.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

If it's all humans, getting a rape story accepted that doesn't have the required nonconsent formula (at some point gotta decide it was wanted) is a problem. (NEMouse should be along soon to point out that such stories do get posted to Lit., though.)

I find this so very humorous, considering that, as you said in another thread (an I concur completely with this), horror stories are at their best when they retain the elements of humanity that make all stories interesting in the first place.

I fail to see what wings or a robo-dick do to fundamentally change the nature of rape. We are fascinated and frightened by supernatural creatures due to the ways in which they resemble us, not in how they are different.

 

[sr71plt]

I find this so very humorous, considering that, as you said in another thread (an I concur completely with this), horror stories are at their best when they retain the elements of humanity that make all stories interesting in the first place.

I fail to see what wings or a robo-dick do to fundamentally change the nature of rape. We are fascinated and frightened by supernatural creatures due to the ways in which they resemble us, not in how they are different.

I didn't write my vampire stories from the aspect of horror (the reader may see them from another angle, of course). I wrote them from the aspect of the best ever fuck by the biggest ever equipment--that was enhanced by the feed. I recognized that someone would die from that (there's a line of philosophy that equates orgasm to le petite mort, "the little death," which is played in these stories for a literary dimension, if only because I can see it), but I was going for the ultimate sexual arousal, not for horror. This is an erotica site. It's the ultimate fuck, not either the rape or the death that I was focused on.

It's sort of irrelevant really that you fail to see what passes here and what doesn't. I don't see it either. But it's not my site or my call, so the best I can do is try to see where the edges are on the rules here and paint within those lines. Yes, I can appreciate the humor of being something other than human (but short of bestiality) that will get a pass.

 

[Darkniciad]

In SR's example, it's likely because the victim is enjoying the hell out of it, even though it's killing them at the same time.

Mind control is one of those grey areas. If the mind control ( in whatever form it takes ) causes the victim to enjoy the experience, it doesn't get classified as non-con, even though it's just as much an inablity to consent as say, being drugged up with roofies ( which I have seen popped with rejections )

If the scene isn't graphic and is geared toward storytelling as a necessary plot element rather than arousal, that seems to come into the equation as well.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

The simple rule of thumb is: Can someone read this and go out and copy it in the real world?

If it's a realistic rape depicted from the viewpoint of a protagonist instigating and enjoying it, written in a way that's intended to arouse readers, the story might have problems here.

 

[SecondCircle]

I sorta think rape is rape, doesn't matter if its a man or a freakin pixie dust fairy that's committing the act. Its forcing sex on those not willing. I don't think horns or fangs matter.

Rape, as serious as it is, can be a subject that is used to evoke fear, much like death is used. Its usually a woman's worst nightmare, so its effective, but often is just too much. Nine times out of ten its going to disgust people and turn them away. I try to stray from it and find ways to scare people on a more base level. It seems like in erotic horror that that's where it will lead you, but there are plenty of other ways to blend fear and sex I think.

 

[slyc_willie]

I sorta think rape is rape, doesn't matter if its a man or a freakin pixie dust fairy that's committing the act. Its forcing sex on those not willing. I don't think horns or fangs matter.

Rape, as serious as it is, can be a subject that is used to evoke fear, much like death is used. Its usually a woman's worst nightmare, so its effective, but often is just too much. Nine times out of ten its going to disgust people and turn them away. I try to stray from it and find ways to scare people on a more base level. It seems like in erotic horror that that's where it will lead you, but there are plenty of other ways to blend fear and sex I think.

I used an implied rape scene in one of my erotic horror stories -- implied because I didn't describe it so much as let the reader know that was what was happening. The scene was one man (the rapist) talking on the phone with another man (the victim's ex-husband). I used it mainly to evoke a sense of fear and to show how evil the perpetrator was. I received a few emails about that from readers telling me how much the scene affected them.

In another story, I described a rape from the victim's point of view, without going into too much physical detail about what was happening. I conveyed more of the sense of shock and betrayal than physical pain.

 

[lovecraft68]

You'll get through because here in lit NH (or nh characters in EH) can get away with anything.

Rape, Bestiality and even underage can fly through with no issue in that category so don't worry about it.

There was a story here a couple of years ago that featured a 15 year old girl in sexual situations. Story had eight comments all of which pointed out the under age.

Several people mentioned it in an unrelated thread and said they had complained and reported the story and it was still there.

Until a thread titled "Do different rules apply to NH" was started then the story vanished.

Category is free range and the beastie thing is a joke.

a couple of months ago someone sent me one of those, I guess they call them "memes"

It was a gross picture of a girl blowing a horses cock. All you could see was the horsecock and her face, the caption was.

"Hey, don't worry, there is a horn on its head, its a unicorn so its okay!"

I'd post it here, but its too distasteful.

But its exactly what they're thinking about over there whether they admit it or not.

I think your story will be fine.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

You'll get through because here in lit NH (or nh characters in EH) can get away with anything.

Rape, Bestiality and even underage can fly through with no issue in that category so don't worry about it.

There was a story here a couple of years ago that featured a 15 year old girl in sexual situations. Story had eight comments all of which pointed out the under age.

Several people mentioned it in an unrelated thread and said they had complained and reported the story and it was still there.

Until a thread titled "Do different rules apply to NH" was started then the story vanished.

Category is free range and the beastie thing is a joke.

a couple of months ago someone sent me one of those, I guess they call them "memes"

It was a gross picture of a girl blowing a horses cock. All you could see was the horsecock and her face, the caption was.

"Hey, don't worry, there is a horn on its head, its a unicorn so its okay!"

I'd post it here, but its too distasteful.

But its exactly what they're thinking about over there whether they admit it or not.

I think your story will be fine.

Um, which alternate dimension did you blow in from?

I can't believe you're still stuck on that ridiculous NH = bestiality tosh.

 

[slyc_willie]

Um, which alternate dimension did you blow in from?

I can't believe you're still stuck on that ridiculous NH = bestiality tosh.

Ah, just let 'im vent.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, just let 'im vent.

'Cause he's going to incessantly anyway.

I'm surprised he didn't let his NEMouse (who has conveniently disappeared) take over the rape and bestiality accounts.

 

[SecondCircle]

I sort of think that its more of a legality thing more than morality. I mean if you asked a lawyer if fucking a horse was legal, he would have cause for concern. But if you asked the same thing about a unicorn, or demon, or vampire, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh. Fictional characters are always easily dismissed as fiction because... well they don't actually exist. But I think Lit attempts to set a standard that will clearly be upheld by anyone.

Sure, I don't really see the difference in fucking a horse and a unicorn. But the legal difference is pretty obvious, even though the moral difference is relative.

For that matter, one could argue that since we're all animals, it don't matter. Of course that won't hold up long. But things of fiction are FAKE and clearly identified as such. I think that really it depends on the content and context. I mean if it were as black and white as unicorns and horses, then we could all assume, "well maybe they got a thing for horse dicks cuz it ain't much difference." But when you're talking aliens, ghouls, and demons, then you can kinda see the fantasy and fiction more than "they just wanna fuck animals" kinda thing.

 

[slyc_willie]

I sort of think that its more of a legality thing more than morality. I mean if you asked a lawyer if fucking a horse was legal, he would have cause for concern. But if you asked the same thing about a unicorn, or demon, or vampire, I'm pretty sure they'd laugh. Fictional characters are always easily dismissed as fiction because... well they don't actually exist. But I think Lit attempts to set a standard that will clearly be upheld by anyone.

Sure, I don't really see the difference in fucking a horse and a unicorn. But the legal difference is pretty obvious, even though the moral difference is relative.

For that matter, one could argue that since we're all animals, it don't matter. Of course that won't hold up long. But things of fiction are FAKE and clearly identified as such. I think that really it depends on the content and context. I mean if it were as black and white as unicorns and horses, then we could all assume, "well maybe they got a thing for horse dicks cuz it ain't much difference." But when you're talking aliens, ghouls, and demons, then you can kinda see the fantasy and fiction more than "they just wanna fuck animals" kinda thing.

I will admit to having walked the razor's edge myself. The story wasn't in NH, but rather Erotic Couplings, but one of the main characters was a very petite elf, complete with small stature, pointed ears, and playful attitude. In fact, I described her early on as being "not much taller" than the narrator's young niece.

Now, my intent was not to bend the rules and portray a character that could be considered underage. I mention several times that my elf possesses some very mature and wise characteristics, even if she giggles and fawns and acts like a teenager on her first date around the narrator. The point I was trying to make with the character is that she combines youthful playfulness with mature experience.

Still, I had a few comments and emails basically telling me I must have fantasies about underaged girls.

Point is, stories like that and categories like NH aren't intended to be a runaround to Lit's policies. Some people might try to use it as such, but I have no doubt they'll be rejected.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

My story does not contain NH characters. It is simply horrific.

 

[slyc_willie]

My story does not contain NH characters. It is simply horrific.

Understood. But, like many other threads, this one has gone off on a tangent.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I will admit to having walked the razor's edge myself. The story wasn't in NH, but rather Erotic Couplings, but one of the main characters was a very petite elf, complete with small stature, pointed ears, and playful attitude. In fact, I described her early on as being "not much taller" than the narrator's young niece.

Now, my intent was not to bend the rules and portray a character that could be considered underage. I mention several times that my elf possesses some very mature and wise characteristics, even if she giggles and fawns and acts like a teenager on her first date around the narrator. The point I was trying to make with the character is that she combines youthful playfulness with mature experience.

Still, I had a few comments and emails basically telling me I must have fantasies about underaged girls.

Point is, stories like that and categories like NH aren't intended to be a runaround to Lit's policies. Some people might try to use it as such, but I have no doubt they'll be rejected.

I gave Laurel a centaur to deal with.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Understood. But, like many other threads, this one has gone off on a tangent.

Wait. I had something for this. Something about wonder and ceasing? Wait...wait....Nope. Nothing.