Rant: Art vs Writing. Free vs Paid.

[DoctorWatson1975]

At this point, I have been approached about 50 times by writers wanting me to draw an illustration for their story.

For free.

I realise that paid commissions aren't always what people are looking for, and there's no actual harm in asking for free art. Shoot your shot it's fine. I hold nothing against those who ask, and when I state that I only do paid commissions, part ways with no bad blood.

But there are often those who feel entitled to free art, for some reason, and it comes across poorly.

I'm writing this mainly so that I can link to it later, for them. Feel free to add your opinions.

This is in no way intended to imply that the ability to draw is superior to the ability to write. It takes the same amount of effort, time, talent and imagination to write good erotica as it takes to illustrate it. I want to get this out of the way because most (not all) writers turn combative when I ask for money, with the mindset that I think I'm 'superior' to them, just because I'm asking them for money.

"I'm writing for free in Literotica...why do you think you are entitled to money? You should do it for the creative satisfaction!" - or variations of this logic are the most common when I refuse to draw for free for them. Except I do draw for free. I have 22 FREE drawings published here. Just like your free stories. Drawn and shared only for "creative satisfaction". Nobody asked me to draw these illustrations.

"But it's my idea that you'll be drawing. Why should you be paid by me when the idea is mine!" - the second most common logic offered when asking for free art. Unfortunately, while writing a story is certainly an exercise in creativity, articulating an "idea"...not so much. Even if you write a whole story and ask me to illustrate it...I didn't ask you to write it, did I?

You expect me to spend anywhere between 4 to 8 hours working on 'I want you to draw X doing Y to Z while A does B standing on C, looking at P wearing a Q while holding an R"? Pay me.

"I can't afford it..." usually followed by insisting on free work or a demand for marked reduction in my quoted price. Why would you assume that you can't afford it but I can?

Bargaining/negotiation is fine, but that's a two way street. If you offer less money, you will probably get a rougher, quicker and simpler drawing than what I usually would draw. My prices are based on what I anticipate to be the amount of time and effort I will take to make what you ask. I know that if my prices are unfair, the market will punish me for it. I've come to these prices after years of trial and error and as of now, they work for me. I certainly don't plan to generate generational wealth doing this, and I'm not trying to hustle you.

"Will you collaborate with me by drawing an illustration for my story?"- ie- "I've put in the creative effort of writing a story, now you put in the creative effort of illustrating it and we'll be equal partners on publication...and no money needs to change hands." In a fair collaboration, I get a story I want, and you get an artwork you want. But if you look closely here, you're getting artwork you want for your story. I'm not getting anything. How is this a collaboration?

When you ask me to draw something for you, I'm entitled to payment for my time and effort. Just like you would be entitled to payment if I asked you to write something for me. Writing commissions are fairly common. Not just that...if I asked you if I could draw something from a story you've already written, you'd be well within your rights to ask me to pay you if I want to draw it.

When demand meets supply, demand pays.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But there are often those who feel entitled to free art, for some reason, and it comes across poorly.

Send them a blank sheet of paper and a pencil. "Here ya go, you do it.

"What, you can't draw? Oh dear, that's a shame. Next."

 

[DoctorWatson1975]

Send them a blank sheet of paper and a pencil.

That seems like a lot of effort. Would it be okay if I asked them to pay me for it?

 

[LiverpoolMaster]

So I assume, dear Dr. Watson, that you would disapprove similarly of any 'artist' who hawked his (maybe, with who knows how much help from a computer programme) stuff around, say, the Story Ideas forum, asking for stories to be composed and handed over free of charge, would you?

After all, we wouldn't want the 'hypocrite' label to attach too stickily, would we..?

Oh yes... er... Rant.

Yours truly,

Sherlock

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

Busted!

 

[DoctorWatson1975]

So I assume, dear Dr. Watson, that you would disapprove similarly of any 'artist' who hawked his (maybe, with who knows how much help from a computer programme) stuff around, say, the Story Ideas forum, asking for stories to be composed and handed over free of charge, would you?

After all, we wouldn't want the 'hypocrite' label to attach too stickily, would we..?

Oh yes... er... Rant.

Yours truly

Dear Sherlock.

Let me respond to this in a civilised manner. Being from Liverpool, I assume you’re not familiar with the concept of a ‘civilised manner’…it’s basically when you respond to people without name-calling, accusations, or pathetically-worded sarcasm. Hope that helps, though I’m not optimistic.

What is the purpose of the Story Ideas Forum? People post ideas. Writers go through them and pick up any they might like to expand into stories. Right? These are ‘open offers’. No writer is directly addressed and there are no presumptions or expectations involved from either side.

Again, I don’t really expect you to be able to understand this, but if you do, you’ll see that this is very different from DMing or emailing a writer, and asking them to write out your idea.

So yes. I did post my drawings there. I didn’t want anyone to write anything for free. Since a couple of kind people did tell me that they would like to write stories based on my art, when I put the drawings out there, I was giving the writer community freedom to do so.

Oh the backlash was vitriolic and immediate, led by you, if I remember correctly. Those that responded, including you, completely missed the point of that forum. I was offering, not asking.

Had I directly contacted a writer, showed him a drawing, and requested a story, that would have been asking. Not offering.

I realise the difference, while obvious to most, may be too subtle to someone of your … uh… capacity. Let me know if you want me to try to explain again using smaller words?

Either way, feel free to enter this into ChatGPT and ask for a response that you can copypaste here. I won’t mind. Maybe it’ll make more sense than what you would otherwise type.

Best regards.

 

[DoctorWatson1975]

Busted!

Oh Lucy.
I wouldn't advertise a limited vocabulary and stunted range of thought so blatantly.

 

[OffNSFW]

It takes the same amount of effort, time, talent and imagination to write good erotica as it takes to illustrate it.

I meeeaaan...

As someone who has written and drawn about two truckloads of smut for this site, I can, in my capacity as an author putting words on the page, conjure universes of suckled nipples, entire lifetimes of dicks gliding smoothly in and out of butts, epic journeys of pegging and spanking and rimming, Biblical verses of old college friends coming over, their friends, and their friends' friends, and they're all way cooler about a lot of stuff than you ever would have given them credit for.

In that same time that it takes me to write one of my typical stories, I can bash out maybe a few drawings, if I'm on a hot streak. If we're talking comics, or even just a prose story with illustrations, the workload is ridiculously high for an artist compared to that of a writer.

In my experience, anyway.

We now return to this very good thread.

 

[DoctorWatson1975]

I meeeaaan...

As someone who has written and drawn about two truckloads of smut for this site, I can, in my capacity as an author putting words on the page, conjure universes of suckled nipples, entire lifetimes of dicks gliding smoothly in and out of butts, epic journeys of pegging and spanking and rimming, Biblical verses of old college friends coming over, their friends, and their friends' friends, and they're all way cooler about a lot of stuff than you ever would have given them credit for.

In that same time that it takes me to write one of my typical stories, I can bash out maybe a few drawings, if I'm on a hot streak. If we're talking comics, or even just a prose story with illustrations, the workload is ridiculously high for an artist compared to that of a writer.

In my experience, anyway.

We now return to this very good thread.

I'd expect mileage to vary on this opinion. But on average I'd like to think that, controlled for quality, equivalent effort is needed in all creative pursuit.

When one makes a drawing in an hour, it's not the effort of that hour alone that is on display...its the hundreds of hours of practice and study that may have gone into honing the ability to make that drawing in an hour.

Very similarly, a thousand word story may involve a lifetime of reading, research and experience.

It matters little if you're writing, drawing, making music or doing crochet...time, effort and talent is directly reflected in quality.

 

[LadyLibido]

I am so disappointed that a post that clearly points out the issue is with entitlement, that there is no animosity towards those that simply ask and take rejection with grace has been received by some so poorly by some. Despite that intent being very clearly made, there has been assumption by some in this thread that DoctorWatson would somehow feel as though entitled behavior toward a writer is permissible. What an astoundingly bad-faith interpretation of such a very clearly intended post.

That aside, entitled behavior for any craft is unbecoming of anyone. We all get to dictate how we use our craft, if some people want to take requests they are more than welcome to, but that doesn't mean one person's amicability to requests should be applied to anyone else. For myself, and many others, making something for myself vs making something for others is a very different motivation/mindset. For me, making stuff for myself is fun and easy, making things for others is not. And other creators may have the opposite experience. We creators of all kinds are allow to have different experiences with that regard. Everyone has their own reasons for what they do, you cannot force anyone to have a different motivation than what they already have.

As someone that both Writes AND Draws, I have been on both sides of the fence and I know the difficulties of each field, at least as they relate to myself. I'm with DoctorWatson on this, no matter what the craft, asking for the possibility of a request just to see if it's possible, perfectly fine, unoffensive on its own. But reacting with entitled and pushy behavior when you are told no, is unbecoming behavior for anyone.

 

[76fellow48]

I am so disappointed that a post that clearly points out the issue is with entitlement, that there is no animosity towards those that simply ask and take rejection with grace has been received by some so poorly by some. Despite that intent being very clearly made, there has been assumption by some in this thread that DoctorWatson would somehow feel as though entitled behavior toward a writer is permissible. What an astoundingly bad-faith interpretation of such a very clearly intended post.

That aside, entitled behavior for any craft is unbecoming of anyone. We all get to dictate how we use our craft, if some people want to take requests they are more than welcome to, but that doesn't mean one person's amicability to requests should be applied to anyone else. For myself, and many others, making something for myself vs making something for others is a very different motivation/mindset. For me, making stuff for myself is fun and easy, making things for others is not. And other creators may have the opposite experience. We creators of all kinds are allow to have different experiences with that regard. Everyone has their own reasons for what they do, you cannot force anyone to have a different motivation than what they already have.

As someone that both Writes AND Draws, I have been on both sides of the fence and I know the difficulties of each field, at least as they relate to myself. I'm with DoctorWatson on this, no matter what the craft, asking for the possibility of a request just to see if it's possible, perfectly fine, unoffensive on its own. But reacting with entitled and pushy behavior when you are told no, is unbecoming behavior for anyone.

There is a term, I think, that should be included. It is "ownership". As in, who owns what. Too many groups are more than willing to grab and run, without considering any rights of ownership.