Random thought...

[Acktion]

I was listening to Ron White the other night and he said something.

Shocker, I know. But, he does speak between sips of bourbon.

Anyway, he said that his dog, Pearl, jumped up on his lap and said "I could have all of your puppies at the same time." Then his wife came in and Pearl whispered "Pretend that nothing is going on between us" and jumped down. To which he replied, "Nothing IS going on!" And his Wife asked him who he was talking to. And when he told her, she asked him if she could have a glass and a hit of what he had.

My wife laughed her ass off. Far more than I thought that particular skit was worth. When I asked her what the hell was so funny, she couldn't say anything but just pointed to where my dog was lying between us with her head on my thigh.

So, I got to thinking. Always dangerous.

We have stories about a man who turns into a werewolf and ravishes a young woman. (PLEASE don't mention "Gingersnaps") What about a story that a dog turns into a woman and seduces a young man? Would that be beastiality if the other isn't? Would it be incest by affinity if she called him "Daddy" and had a tag on her chain that read "Daddy's Girl"? What would we call her? Werewoman? As a woman would she feel undressed if she weren't wearing a collar but perfectly comfortable if that was ALL she was wearing? Would that be considered bondage? Would she think "bitch" was an offensive term? What about "dog"? Would she BE one? Would she still come when someone whistled? Would she be Octomom the Second?

About then, one of the cats jumped in my lap to be petted.

And then I got to thinking...

Ok, that's just WRONG.

 

[A_Little_Show]

[deleted]

 

[patientlee]

I think you should have a drink and stop thinking. It's getting weird in here.

I was listening to Ron White the other night and he said something.

Shocker, I know. But, he does speak between sips of bourbon.

Anyway, he said that his dog, Pearl, jumped up on his lap and said "I could have all of your puppies at the same time." Then his wife came in and Pearl whispered "Pretend that nothing is going on between us" and jumped down. To which he replied, "Nothing IS going on!" And his Wife asked him who he was talking to. And when he told her, she asked him if she could have a glass and a hit of what he had.

My wife laughed her ass off. Far more than I thought that particular skit was worth. When I asked her what the hell was so funny, she couldn't say anything but just pointed to where my dog was lying between us with her head on my thigh.

So, I got to thinking. Always dangerous.

We have stories about a man who turns into a werewolf and ravishes a young woman. (PLEASE don't mention "Gingersnaps") What about a story that a dog turns into a woman and seduces a young man? Would that be beastiality if the other isn't? Would it be incest by affinity if she called him "Daddy" and had a tag on her chain that read "Daddy's Girl"? What would we call her? Werewoman? As a woman would she feel undressed if she weren't wearing a collar but perfectly comfortable if that was ALL she was wearing? Would that be considered bondage? Would she think "bitch" was an offensive term? What about "dog"? Would she BE one? Would she still come when someone whistled? Would she be Octomom the Second?

About then, one of the cats jumped in my lap to be petted.

And then I got to thinking...

Ok, that's just WRONG.

 

[Handley_Page]

Can I have a glass of whatever it is you're drinking, please?

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll tell you what I tell everyone.

If its furry and its fucking its bestiality whether it is a "made up" creature or not.

And if that is your kink, then that is your kink, but how I truly wish people would just own it and stop making up stupid scenarios to delude themselves into thinking its some thing else.

 

[Handley_Page]

I have a bit of a problem with that, LC.
Whilst I admit that your statement is broadly true, I cannot but help remember the stories of Phillipa Wyatt, where the son tells his new missus that she will be fucked by a Panther (?) after which she will be pregnant. After that may be a different story.
(example: 'Tree of Vortigern']

 

[Acktion]

<Glances down at pelt on chest and tries to decide if he's been insulted>

Wait, what? So, if she turns from a dog to human and DOESN'T have fur anymore, but...

I do remember that book by Piers Anthony now that you've jogged my memory. In fact, I think I still have it around here somewhere. You didn't REALLY have to mention being thirteen though. That was just spiteful.

Seriously though, while I had progressed to the point that I was toying with such minutia as him teaching her to talk and use silverware and such, I hadn't really thought about the whole "informed consent" angle.

Which got me to thinking...

I know. "Oh, shit", right?

Can a man have truly informed consent in choosing to have sex with a woman and vice versa? I mean, how much can the opposite gender really KNOW about what it means to have sex with the gender they aren't?

My head hurts now. Gonna go back to my V-Day bashing diatribe.

 

[patientlee]

Stop thinking!! You're scaring my cat!

<Glances down at pelt on chest and tries to decide if he's been insulted>

Wait, what? So, if she turns from a dog to human and DOESN'T have fur anymore, but...

I do remember that book by Piers Anthony now that you've jogged my memory. In fact, I think I still have it around here somewhere. You didn't REALLY have to mention being thirteen though. That was just spiteful.

Seriously though, while I had progressed to the point that I was toying with such minutia as him teaching her to talk and use silverware and such, I hadn't really thought about the whole "informed consent" angle.

Which got me to thinking...

I know. "Oh, shit", right?

Can a man have truly informed consent in choosing to have sex with a woman and vice versa? I mean, how much can the opposite gender really KNOW about what it means to have sex with the gender they aren't?

My head hurts now. Gonna go back to my V-Day bashing diatribe.

 

[Acktion]

Stop thinking!! You're scaring my cat!

I'll turn over the keyboard to our four. Unless you think they would start doing kitty porn.

Yeah, meds have definitely kicked in. Past time for siesta.

 

[PennLady]

I'll tell you what I tell everyone.

If its furry and its fucking its bestiality whether it is a "made up" creature or not.

And if that is your kink, then that is your kink, but how I truly wish people would just own it and stop making up stupid scenarios to delude themselves into thinking its some thing else.

But if the creature is a human, or in human form (however you want to think of it), then why is it bestiality? If there's no actual animal involved in the sex, then I don't see how it's bestiality. To me it's no different than Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde, in a way; the being just turns into one form.

Plus, Remittance Girl put on her blog some time ago, bestiality has been around for a long time, in a mythical way. Zeus became a bull and had sex with some woman (forget the myth at the moment). So at least in nonhuman stories, sex takes place when the being is a human.

 

[TxRad]

But if the creature is a human, or in human form (however you want to think of it), then why is it bestiality? If there's no actual animal involved in the sex, then I don't see how it's bestiality. To me it's no different than Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde, in a way; the being just turns into one form.

Plus, a Remittance Girl put on her blog some time ago, bestiality has been around for a long time, in a mythical way. Zeus became a bull and had sex with some woman (forget the myth at the moment). So at least in nonhuman stories, sex takes place when the being is a human.

I'm afraid you guys have got me to thinking. A very dangerous thing.

Take your Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde for example. Instead of turning into a murderous monster, what if he turned into a well hung porn star type guy with all the moves? Only after he cums he turns back into the ugly milk-toast type guy he really is.

Free plot bunny anyone?

 

[Acktion]

I'm afraid you guys have got me to thinking. A very dangerous thing.

Take your Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde for example. Instead of turning into a murderous monster, what if he turned into a well hung porn star type guy with all the moves? Only after he cums he turns back into the ugly milk-toast type guy he really is.

Free plot bunny anyone?

Actually, that might be too close to the movie "Dr. Jeckyll and Ms. Hyde" or something like that. Going to have to see if I can find it again. Oh, wait. He turned into a woman. (Elizabeth Hurley?) Never mind. Carry on.

 

[patientlee]

I'll turn over the keyboard to our four. Unless you think they would start doing kitty porn.

Yeah, meds have definitely kicked in. Past time for siesta.

Kitty porn.

I had 2 male cats that could have had a great gay kitty porn career if I had owned a video camera then.

Now I have brother and sister cats. That's a whole different category!

 

[xrxomcyd]

Agreed, with caveats

But if the creature is a human, or in human form (however you want to think of it), then why is it bestiality? If there's no actual animal involved in the sex, then I don't see how it's bestiality. To me it's no different than Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde, in a way; the being just turns into one form.

Plus, a Remittance Girl put on her blog some time ago, bestiality has been around for a long time, in a mythical way. Zeus became a bull and had sex with some woman (forget the myth at the moment). So at least in nonhuman stories, sex takes place when the being is a human.

Zeus also became a swan, and somehow that caused the woman involved (Leda) to lay eggs (giving us Castor, Pollux, Helen of Troy, and that other one with the name I had to look up, Clytemnestra). Apparently, back then the woman was believed to just be the incubator for the man's seed? Greek myths can just be weird sometimes.

We can quibble over terms, biology, and supernatural methods of transformation, but for me the morally significant attribute of bestiality is that a "beast" cannot understand or give consent to any such act. Granted some humans cannot either, but since that is certainly a morally relevant aspect of bestiality, let us stick with it and see where it takes us.

When the dog/cat/platypus/platyhelminthes/whatever becomes human, does it merely take an external human appearance and retain a bestial mind, or does its mental capacity for understanding match the new appearance? The former I would say is still bestiality in the moral sense, and the latter is not. The same holds in reverse, if a human (Greek god, strong AI, other sapient being) takes the form of an animal (plant, rock, weather pattern), it is not bestiality so long as the ability to understand and give consent remains after the transformation (as in the case of Zeus it would seem).

So, having sex with animals != bestiality, if the animal has human-level awareness and judgment. (It might, however, be considered rape if they cannot or do not indicate consent, as sponges and sea cucumbers have some trouble doing.)

 

[TxRad]

Actually, that might be too close to the movie "Dr. Jeckyll and Ms. Hyde" or something like that. Going to have to see if I can find it again. Oh, wait. He turned into a woman. (Elizabeth Hurley?) Never mind. Carry on.

I was thinking of more the Johnny Milktoast type to the John Holmes type.

 

[PennLady]

I'm afraid you guys have got me to thinking. A very dangerous thing.

Take your Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde for example. Instead of turning into a murderous monster, what if he turned into a well hung porn star type guy with all the moves? Only after he cums he turns back into the ugly milk-toast type guy he really is.

Free plot bunny anyone?

Kind of an x-rated version of that Jerry Lewis movie, where he goes between being a klutz and a suave ladies' man?

 

[PennLady]

So, having sex with animals != bestiality, if the animal has human-level awareness and judgment. (It might, however, be considered rape if they cannot or do not indicate consent, as sponges and sea cucumbers have some trouble doing.)

I think that in the nonhuman category, with the werewolves, weretigers, etc., what you essentially have is people who turn into animals and retain their human consciousness and awareness when in animal form.

 

[TxRad]

Kind of an x-rated version of that Jerry Lewis movie, where he goes between being a klutz and a suave ladies' man?

That's an oldie.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm afraid you guys have got me to thinking. A very dangerous thing.

Take your Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde for example. Instead of turning into a murderous monster, what if he turned into a well hung porn star type guy with all the moves? Only after he cums he turns back into the ugly milk-toast type guy he really is.

Free plot bunny anyone?

FWIW, it's widely speculated that Jekyll & Hyde was originally written as an allusion to homosexuality: respectable pillar of the Establishment has a shameful secret. So you're coming almost full-circle here!

 

[sr71plt]

FWIW, it's widely speculated that Jekyll & Hyde was originally written as an allusion to homosexuality: respectable pillar of the Establishment has a shameful secret. So you're coming almost full-circle here!

Edinburgh, Scotland, claims the model for Jekyll and Hyde, was Deacon William Brodie, a cabinetmaker, hanged in 1788 (from gallows he'd crafted himself some years earlier) for being a wealthy leading citizen by day and using keys he'd made for clients to rob their houses at night.

 

[Acktion]

Kind of an x-rated version of that Jerry Lewis movie, where he goes between being a klutz and a suave ladies' man?

Ah yes. "The Nutty Professor", right?

Whatever the name, since I'm probably incorrect, didn't they remake it a few years ago* with Eddie Murphy?

*note; at my age anything in the last two decades is "a few years ago".

 

[Acktion]

I was thinking of more the Johnny Milktoast type to the John Holmes type.

Actually,.... what were their names? 70s also I think. Long Dong Silver and ... Damn, can't remember. Two guys that had 24" penises. One white guy and one black.

I'm reasonably sure they were as fake as Dixie Dynamite's chest.

 

[Darkniciad]

You don't want to know the strange places my brain goes.

I was minding my own business at work a couple of weeks ago, when out of the blue, my brain decided that there's a logical reason why they never find the body of a Bigfoot...

He's the first Immortal - ala Highlander.

To quote George Carlin, these are the thoughts that kept me out of the really good schools.

 

[Hypoxia]

Western tradition, at least, has numerous such stories. Zeus the swan, and Leda. Various shapeshifters, both human and beast. The Great Selkie (were-seal) of Sule Skerrie:

I am a man upon the land
I am a Selkie on the salt sea
And when I'm far and far from land
My home it is in Sule Skerrie

Would that song be banned here? Sex with seal people?

I've recently submitted revisions to my BRIDE OF KONG series plus a set of alternate endings. One ending has humans fornicating with a modified King Kong clone. I make sure that the huge ape-like creature speaks calmly and politely to the humans -- see, he's NOT just a beast. But wow, what a schlong!

As it happens, many male creatures have a penis that is proportionately much larger than mere human guys. Should were-people and shapeshifter stories accommodate this. "Yes, he's just a man now, but he has the equipment of a dolphin!" Or the barbs of a dog dick. And in some species, females have vaginas much weirder than humans possess. Plot bunny, folks!

 

[Quiet_Cool]

I'll tell you what I tell everyone.

If its furry and its fucking its bestiality whether it is a "made up" creature or not.

And if that is your kink, then that is your kink, but how I truly wish people would just own it and stop making up stupid scenarios to delude themselves into thinking its some thing else.

Furry + fucking = beastiality.

Taking notes, ladies?

Remember that next time you hookup with an italian guy, you dog-fuckers...



Honestly, this whole idea of defining beastiality with definite terms is a bit absurd. Figure this way: Lord of the Rings. We seem to have no qualm about Aragorn hooking up with Arwen (sp?). Beastiality seems a bit off, given that she's not an animal of some sort, but she's certainly not human. If this example isn't crossing the line, then animal-like attributes would seem to be the defining properties. Arwen, on the other hand, appears human-like and has more human disposition.

Here's where we run into trouble. When we're talking about most of these mythical creatures, depending on your take on them, mostly they carry those same (or similar) human attributes. Difference: They don't look as human as... say, an elf, or Vulcan, or Vampire (depending on the image you have of vampires; "Twilight" seems to have gotten pretty popular on the interspecies shag theme).

Problem with that difference: Unfortunately, it seems like it's mostly just a hang-up. The main issue with this sort of thing, whether it be underagers or animals or Minotaurs, is the level of consent as far as I can see. Obviously, if you ask a goat to take part, it has no clue what you're talking about, so consent is an impossibility; if you're dealing with an underager, the emotional understanding isn't likely developed enough to make the "judgment" a true one when dealing with an adult, but the Elf, the Vulcan, and the Minotaur, if presented in a manner where they reach the reader as a mature enough being to understand the concept and make an independent choice on the matter.

Consent, basically is the issue.

And always should be the issue.

I'll take this a step further, since I'm long-winded and all.

Non-human category; possession story. Given the concept of the body's original inhabitants being removed, are you more disgusted by the idea of a an age-old spirit inhabiting the body of a young girl (too young to consent legally or understand to consent emotionally), or the spirit of a too young to consent child inhabiting the body of a mature woman? The story being erotic in nature, the latter should be the answer, but most of us, while I'm sure aren't turned on particularly by either idea, are probably more unsettled with the first one.

Physical manifestation being representative, and emotional response being bumped down a notch.

Though, some of that would be due to the porn factor...

Q_C