Radicals wanted to create carnage at Fort Dix

[JMohegan]

You really want to call all radicals Muslims?

That was *your* inference, made with a reference to the Middle East when we were talking about the Fort Dix suspects - who moved to the U.S. from Yugoslavia, Jordan, and Turkey.

I wonder if your Muslim friends would agree Muslims aren't the problem. All of those millions you mention have done nothing to bother me. Now, if they are harboring some leftist grouop of terrorists, I'd change my mind.

But, how do you think those car bombers and the ones who are willing to strap bombs to their chest and then venture into a market or whatever feel about innocent people? Their success is judged by how many innocents they killed. Sorry, but I'm not going to debate someone about whether the issues of a war are just or not.

I didn't ask you questions about war.

I asked you questions about genocide.

Your call for a "parking lot" in the Middle East is morally bereft and idiotic in the extreme.

You offered your opinion.

That's mine.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I hate to to nitpic - but plain old American isn't a race, it's a nationality. He might be nationality-ist, but he didn't say anything about a specific race.

I'm not sure what you think I said, but I don't think I said anything about that. I think you misunderstood. Or perhaps I expressed myself poorly.

When he says "our country" that directly implies there arent any Muslims/Middle Eastern people from "his country".

Not any "real" Americans, anyway. Just a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing. They dont count as real Americans, even if they are 4th generation.

And he's not really talking religion, either. He's like any other shortsighted person whos thinking about some brownskinned person who lives somewhere hot, usually.

Using words like muslim terrorists, etc is just a way to put a more acceptable face on a deeper prejudice.


But there isnt much point debating this with someone like him. I tend to avoid these kinds of talks because the problem is fundamental - its a belief system that cant be changed, usually.

Its also something that you probably have to be (middle eastern) to really see.

Middle Eastern people, Muslims and Fat people are the last groups acceptable to make fun of. Like gays, asians, etc back when I was a kid. It was ok to make fun of them and say anything you wanted to say, any slur you like.

Most of people wouldnt do that - not publicly, anyway - today.

But its ok to say anything you want about the A-Rabs, as long as you pretend youre really just talking about a select few. The fact is, most Americans dont see it as a select few. Its all of them.

This is all Im saying on this.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

btw - I dont even really like the word "fat".

 

[WriterDom]

Even if only 10% of them chant "Death to America" that's still 140 million people.

 

[minx1]

i'm going to answer this in successive posts because of the divergent subjects and answers if you don't mind. i have a sunset on the pond's waterfall to catch, and don't want to miss it.i thought of putting an image of a weed burner up, but nixed it to keep the conversation on track. In truth, my yard has more than one species of grass. Some is of the broader blade variety than the remainder, but it's grass. It doesn't seem intent on choking out or displacing the rest, grows better in some areas than the rest, and feels good when i walk barefoot through the yard. The occasional dandelion on the other hand will spread like wildfire (if allowed to grow) through the lawn, into the flower and garden beds, and end up dropping seed heads into the pond. It doesn't enhance anything and overwhelms (read kill by displacing) what i've worked to put there.

i shrug my shoulders when driving by the occasional house in the neighborhood that doesn't go after the weeds in their yard. It's their house and their decision. In my yard, however, i pincer ever one of the fuckers out of the ground by thumb and forefinger when i notice them first emerge.i won't take it as flippant if you disregard my tossing more world history into the discussion. Pop these two links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport#History_and_development

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_hijacking

at your leisure for a time reference of the last 75 years.

Prior to that you traveled by land or sea. i'll take a wag and say a single "terrorist" on horseback travels 6 miles per hour and by foot at 4 miles per hour. Discounting the Alps, waterways, weather, rest breaks, etc. and assuming 8 hours of travel per day, it would take 49 days and 74 days respectively for said terrorist to move from Baghdad to travel the 2,352 miles from Baghdad to Amsterdam. Hop on a plane traveling 400-500 mph depending on the wind and performance of said a/c and barely 6 hours have elapsed.

That answers the physical reality why question in that not a lot of commitment is required to actually make the trip. As for the philosophical why, scroll the hijack link or click me. You might notice we've been dealing with this issue (by air) for 50 years or more depending on where you start the count.

But that isn't your question, is it. Click me first. Skim or read in depth at your leisure, your choice. Now that you're bored out of your mind, glance at this link. Terrorism isn't a new thing. But that still doesn't answer your question about the latest round does it. The start is actually bracketed between here and here, and here. We in the US are real good at lightning strikes that don't cost many lives following the debacle in Vietnam, but our mid and end game tends to suck. We dither depending on the political climate to initiate action, wilt when friendly losses cross "a mutable acceptance line", and leave (like this particular train of thought) a lot of unanswered questions upon departure. i'll add a little more to this after the sunset.

Thanks AA, you have obviously put a lot of effort into your post. I would have liked to answer your points, though I think it may be a case of banging my head against a brick wall anyway. You have included 8 links just in this one post, which to be honest I don't have the time nor if I am honest the inclination to read fully since I do believe that given the time both 'sides' of the argument could provide selective and numerous links to back up their position. Lol I have witnessed this whilst reading some of the threads around Iraq for example of the General board.

Since you seem to be well armed with your historical 'facts', you would no doubt make mince meat of me. For example I do not know enough about the Iran Hostage Crisis or what led to it, to be able to answer those particular points from an informed position. But thankyou again AA, because now I will definitely find out more for in future. As I think this subject is so important I will not make a ham fisted attempt at trying to answer things I do not feel sure of. Hopefully there will be someone else reading your posts who may be equiped with that knowledge to answer your points. If you want to discuss the morality, ethics and legality about certain things I am happy to try. Though I have to agree with the other poster who said that there are mindsets that are not about to be changed...again probably on both sides.

 

[minx1]

If I, a Christian, was given the same consideration as them I'd be all for it. But when I was working I was expected to keep my faith to myself. I was required to do my praying on my own time. The same is true of any jew, wiccan, or hindu (or any other religion). Why should THEY get special rights? Is their religion more important or special than mine?

Well though I am not religious at all Graceanne I still accept and believe people of ALL faiths should be able to follow their religion. I'm not sure about what considerations you would require, but obviously things like Christmas and Easter are already recognised. I know religions that are required to pray at certain times of the day and although I do not practice a faith myself, I fully believe that if thats what their faith involves they should be able to do that.

 

[minx1]

I was going to ignore this thread after it degenerated, but somehow I just can't. My original comment - "Shoot the bastards." - was not, in any way, tongue in cheek. However, my sentiment would be the same if it were Christian extremists in Beirut, Shinto extremists in Tokyo, or paramilitary "patriots" in Wyoming. Terrorists: whatever flavor, wherever they are found - Shoot the bastards.

Personally I felt it degenerated at the 'shoot the bastards' comment.

 

[intothewoods]

If I, a Christian, was given the same consideration as them I'd be all for it. But when I was working I was expected to keep my faith to myself. I was required to do my praying on my own time. The same is true of any jew, wiccan, or hindu (or any other religion). Why should THEY get special rights? Is their religion more important or special than mine?

No, but it is different than yours. And so if you're going to have religious freedom in a country, that means also accomodating religions that require you to pray several times a day.

 

[intothewoods]

Personally I felt it degenerated at the 'shoot the bastards' comment.

Yeah, that also makes me feel like I don't want to participate in the discussion.

 

[minx1]

"Let me offer this tidbit from my long ago youth as an example. i had a friend named Connie of the same age from the 6th through 11th grade before her father moved to the next duty station. She had a southern Baptist Georgia cracker background with a pair of brothers as bookends in age. In the 6th grade, she maintained the southern girl just this side of middle class cultural mindset that loved southern rock, wearing Daisy Duke's, and running barefoot in the summer every chance she got. In the seventh grade, she went black.

Now keep in mind a US Army post following the end of the draft is about as multi-cultural as you can possibly get. The neighborhood kids would be in the park centered in the middle of a mid/senior NCO housing area until 2 in the morning without issue. One minute you could be listening to Lynyrd Skynyrd, and the next Parliament Funkadelic with little fuss. Connie would fuss. If she wasn't allowed to tune the radio to an R&B station she'd pitch a fit and sometimes go home. Had a black boyfriend. Now before you start laughing, at least 25% of the "couples" were interracial and no one batted an eye. Connie picked to date the most incompatible (with her) individual of our group. We all either laughed or shrugged our shoulders and went about our business.

In the eighth grade a black and oriental couple with a 3 year old moved into the neighborhood next door to Connie's family. Connie started babysitting for the couple within a few weeks. The mother would work on post from the time school let out until 9 or 10 every night while the father went to the NCO club. Obviously, Connie didn't hang out with us as much. All of her blouses became close fitted short sleeved garments made of silk/satin. She began studying Buddhism, offering the occasional "meaning of life" anecdote to a conversation. Would not eat a French-fry to save her life stating, "Rice is the only acceptable starch for the body temple." i remember that statement to this day. Connie went oriental, then isolated herself from the rest of us. Became so quiet in class you had to physically check to make sure she had attended.

When she moved away in her junior year of high school, most of us shed a tear for the loss of her comical younger brother rather than her. By that time she'd become a stranger to us. Perhaps a loss to all of us, but her choice.

The point? Everyone struggles to find their identity. Some don't find it until well into their 20s. Others continue to evolve. At least once in a life, some brilliant flash of epiphany strikes most of us. Brings to mind the usual sudden giddiness following discovery of BDSM, but that's a whole 'nother thread. Many will grab onto that flash like a No-Dunkin' Doughnut to keep from drowning in the morass of "why am i here and wtf am i doing?" Put a match near a candle and you get light. On the other hand, put a match near a garage filled with gas fumes

I am really not sure if I have extracted the key point here AA. Is it? And if it is, before I reply I need to clarify what you are saying exactly. That terrorists are intrinsincally bad people or are you saying that it is their beliefs combined with what you referred to as their 'swirling around the drain, stagnant and rotting' existance, that makes them in your analogy, explosive? Or is this not the point at all?
I'm with you as far as everyone is evolving and finds their identity, then I kinda lose you...

If I am way off, please feel free to explain again.

 

[minx1]

Yeah, that also makes me feel like I don't want to participate in the discussion.

Yeah that was my thought, until more 'solutions' were added and I couldn't help myself.

 

[DVS]

I'm not sure what you think I said, but I don't think I said anything about that. I think you misunderstood. Or perhaps I expressed myself poorly.

When he says "our country" that directly implies there arent any Muslims/Middle Eastern people from "his country".

Not any "real" Americans, anyway. Just a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing. They dont count as real Americans, even if they are 4th generation.

And he's not really talking religion, either. He's like any other shortsighted person whos thinking about some brownskinned person who lives somewhere hot, usually.

Using words like muslim terrorists, etc is just a way to put a more acceptable face on a deeper prejudice.


But there isnt much point debating this with someone like him. I tend to avoid these kinds of talks because the problem is fundamental - its a belief system that cant be changed, usually.

Its also something that you probably have to be (middle eastern) to really see.

Middle Eastern people, Muslims and Fat people are the last groups acceptable to make fun of. Like gays, asians, etc back when I was a kid. It was ok to make fun of them and say anything you wanted to say, any slur you like.

Most of people wouldnt do that - not publicly, anyway - today.

But its ok to say anything you want about the A-Rabs, as long as you pretend youre really just talking about a select few. The fact is, most Americans dont see it as a select few. Its all of them.

This is all Im saying on this.

I'm going to let Gracie answer this post on her own, if she wants. But, you took a few liberties with what I have said, and I think that is a telling sign of where you're coming from.

First, will somebody please start humming "God Bless America" in the background? Thanks.

IsabellaSnow, you said...When he says "our country" that directly implies there arent any Muslims/Middle Eastern people from "his country".

In fact, there are quite a few Muslims, Middle Eastern people in this country. Their parents and grandparents came to this country to find a better life, years ago. And the fact that their siblings are still here tells me they liked what they found and decided to stay.

My family did the very same thing, years ago. And, you can ask anyone who lives here, and you will get the very same story. That's how this country was populated...with people from all races, all ways of life, for whatever reason, but looking for a better life. So, when I say "our country" I'm including everybody who lives here.

We all get along quite well, thank you very much. You know why? Because we are Americans. We are Asian Americans, Irish Americans, Muslim Americans, Spanish Americans etc., because we all want others to know of our heritage. Only the American Indian didn't come from another country. But, we are still ALL Americans.

IsabellaSnow, you continue with what I said...Not any "real" Americans, anyway. Just a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing. They dont count as real Americans, even if they are 4th generation.

To find out what I consider to be "real" Americans, you only need to read what I've already said, in this post. It's your reference to say "a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing." I also don't now what you mean by the 4th generation reference. Middle Eastern people have a far longer lineage than anyone in America.

I only said they pray five times a day. I never said it was "too much". Nor did I call anyone "a funny lot" or say anything about their clothing. Could those have come from the last argument you had on the topic, perhaps?

IsabellaSnow you go on to say...And he's not really talking religion, either. He's like any other shortsighted person whos thinking about some brownskinned person who lives somewhere hot, usually.

Using words like muslim terrorists, etc is just a way to put a more acceptable face on a deeper prejudice.

I don't know where you read some of this text. I'd like you to find it in anything I've said. It does sound like a deeper prejudice, I agree with you there. But who has that prejudice?

I'm willing to continue a sensible discussion about the topic of radicals and terorists...but I do like my words to be quoted and not paraphrased.

 

[graceanne]

Well though I am not religious at all Graceanne I still accept and believe people of ALL faiths should be able to follow their religion. I'm not sure about what considerations you would require, but obviously things like Christmas and Easter are already recognised. I know religions that are required to pray at certain times of the day and although I do not practice a faith myself, I fully believe that if thats what their faith involves they should be able to do that.

Really? When's the last time some said to you 'Merry Christmas' as apposed to 'Happy Holidays'? When's the last time you saw, on something other than the Christian channel, something to do with Christmas that didn't include Santa? As for Easter - my children don't get Easter break - they get spring break, and it's not even around Easter. They don't bring me pictures of the cross, or stories about Jesus, they bring me pictures of bunnies and eggs. How is that celebrating the meaning behind those holidays? If they get to wash their feet and lay out rugs and take time of the day for their prayer, then I freaken want the same consideration. I actually do pray off and on during the day, but I keep it to myself, because that's what's expected.

If you want to go into it, what about all the employees of the state, and teachers? They can't express their relgion without a crap load of problems. The most they can do is wear a cross necklace. They can't hold prayer meetings or talk to others about their relgioun - but I bet if they were muslim they could. Heck, the way things are going, they could stop right in the middle of a class to have their prayer.

 

[graceanne]

No, but it is different than yours. And so if you're going to have religious freedom in a country, that means also accomodating religions that require you to pray several times a day.

As I said - I have no problem with accomodating their religion as long as they do the same for everyone else. Next to their spots for washing their feet I think their should be a shrine for the Madonna, and a Budda.

 

[DVS]

That was *your* inference, made with a reference to the Middle East when we were talking about the Fort Dix suspects - who moved to the U.S. from Yugoslavia, Jordan, and Turkey.

I didn't ask you questions about war.

I asked you questions about genocide.

Your call for a "parking lot" in the Middle East is morally bereft and idiotic in the extreme.

You offered your opinion.

That's mine.

As I said in my first post, the parking lot comment was said tongue-in-cheek. Such comments can be seen as idiotic and extreme, if taken seriously. That's why I made sure to include the tongue-in-cheek clarification.

You mention genocide? Does the phrase "death to America" sound anything like genocide to you? Does the fact that almost everything you hear from many extremist and radical viewpoints has something to do with killing as many Americans as possible? Sounds to me like they want a parking lot over here. And they add no tongue-in-cheek clarification, with their comments.

You say you didn't ask me any questions about war. Car bombs are nothing new. They have been the chicken shit means of radical and terrorist kinds for a long time. It wasn't invented for Iraq. The problem with that kind of killing is it doesn't just kill the military opposition. It kills innocent people...women and children who have nothing to do with their extremist cause other than they are stuck in the middle of it.

In addition...if someone is talking about killing off everybody in your family, your neighbors, your friends and everybody else in your country if they get the chance...don't you consider that talk of war?

These guys in Fort Dix were planning their own little jihad. They would probably look for some sort of acknowledgment from bin Laden, if they had been successful. And, no, they weren’t all of Middle Eastern descent, so I stand corrected on that. They were all from eastern locals of the world, however.

 

[DVS]

btw - I dont even really like the word "fat".

I think the policitally correct phrase is "slenderly challenged" or maybe "weight challenged".

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm going to let Gracie answer this post on her own, if she wants. But, you took a few liberties with what I have said, and I think that is a telling sign of where you're coming from.

First, will somebody please start humming "God Bless America" in the background? Thanks.

IsabellaSnow, you said...When he says "our country" that directly implies there arent any Muslims/Middle Eastern people from "his country".

In fact, there are quite a few Muslims, Middle Eastern people in this country. Their parents and grandparents came to this country to find a better life, years ago. And the fact that their siblings are still here tells me they liked what they found and decided to stay.

My family did the very same thing, years ago. And, you can ask anyone who lives here, and you will get the very same story. That's how this country was populated...with people from all races, all ways of life, for whatever reason, but looking for a better life. So, when I say "our country" I'm including everybody who lives here.

We all get along quite well, thank you very much. You know why? Because we are Americans. We are Asian Americans, Irish Americans, Muslim Americans, Spanish Americans etc., because we all want others to know of our heritage. Only the American Indian didn't come from another country. But, we are still ALL Americans.

IsabellaSnow, you continue with what I said...Not any "real" Americans, anyway. Just a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing. They dont count as real Americans, even if they are 4th generation.

To find out what I consider to be "real" Americans, you only need to read what I've already said, in this post. It's your reference to say "a funny lot who pray too much and wear strange clothing." I also don't now what you mean by the 4th generation reference. Middle Eastern people have a far longer lineage than anyone in America.

I only said they pray five times a day. I never said it was "too much". Nor did I call anyone "a funny lot" or say anything about their clothing. Could those have come from the last argument you had on the topic, perhaps?

IsabellaSnow you go on to say...And he's not really talking religion, either. He's like any other shortsighted person whos thinking about some brownskinned person who lives somewhere hot, usually.

Using words like muslim terrorists, etc is just a way to put a more acceptable face on a deeper prejudice.

I don't know where you read some of this text. I'd like you to find it in anything I've said. It does sound like a deeper prejudice, I agree with you there. But who has that prejudice?

I'm willing to continue a sensible discussion about the topic of radicals and terorists...but I do like my words to be quoted and not paraphrased.

This made me laugh.

Are you SERIOUSLY talking to me as though Im not an American? I'm from NY, baby.

Lecture all you want.

But do educate yourself first.

PS - re the fat comment - you are really, really slow on the uptake, son.

We're finished here.

 

[DVS]

This made me laugh.

Are you SERIOUSLY talking to me as though Im not an American? I'm from NY, baby.

Lecture all you want.

But do educate yourself first.

PS - re the fat comment - you are really, really slow on the uptake, son.

We're finished here.

So, being American, are you saying you don't feel the same way? Unless you are American Indian, your family came from somewhere else, just like the rest of us. And, living in New York, you surely have come across many different nationalities who were doing nothing more than living their lives, just like you do. For the most part, you all eat, work, pray, play and live next to one another, without a problem.

 

[intothewoods]

As I said - I have no problem with accomodating their religion as long as they do the same for everyone else. Next to their spots for washing their feet I think their should be a shrine for the Madonna, and a Budda.

Sweet! I myself don't need and would prefer not to that sort of accomodation (no need to display a menorah for my sake - got one at home). It is, however, lovely to work somewhere that I can say, a relative has died, I need to sit shivah for a certain number of days.

 

[intothewoods]

So, being American, are you saying you don't feel the same way? Unless you are American Indian, your family came from somewhere else, just like the rest of us. And, living in New York, you surely have come across many different nationalities who were doing nothing more than living their lives, just like you do. For the most part, you all eat, work, pray, play and live next to one another, without a problem.

Well, fwiw, I can't speak for IS, but as for me, I am an American and I am thankful for this country. But I wouldn't quite say wholeheartedly, as you did earlier, "we all get along quite well, thank you very much." I'm a Jew. And I'm an American. The short story is, being a Jewish American isn't always as easy as it looks, or something like that.

 

[minx1]

As I said - I have no problem with accomodating their religion as long as they do the same for everyone else. Next to their spots for washing their feet I think their should be a shrine for the Madonna, and a Budda.

Well if they don't accomodate (I assume we are talking about the people able to facilitate this), perhaps that something people should raise with their employers or local political representatives

 

[minx1]

Really? When's the last time some said to you 'Merry Christmas' as apposed to 'Happy Holidays'? When's the last time you saw, on something other than the Christian channel, something to do with Christmas that didn't include Santa? As for Easter - my children don't get Easter break - they get spring break, and it's not even around Easter. They don't bring me pictures of the cross, or stories about Jesus, they bring me pictures of bunnies and eggs. How is that celebrating the meaning behind those holidays? If they get to wash their feet and lay out rugs and take time of the day for their prayer, then I freaken want the same consideration. I actually do pray off and on during the day, but I keep it to myself, because that's what's expected.

I'm sorry Graceanne, I understand what you are saying about how Christmas and Easter are depicted and that they may have lost meaning for many people, but its my view neverthless that they exist because of a religious significance?
And I am not arguing against you, I think you should be equally entitled at the next person. If you don't get it, its not their fault as I am sure you will agree. Perhaps its something that you and like minded people should try and do something about.

If you want to go into it, what about all the employees of the state, and teachers? They can't express their relgion without a crap load of problems. The most they can do is wear a cross necklace. They can't hold prayer meetings or talk to others about their relgioun - but I bet if they were muslim they could. Heck, the way things are going, they could stop right in the middle of a class to have their prayer.

I'm sorry but I'm not even going to respond to the remarks in itallics. As for other employees not getting entitlements..two wrongs don't make a right. They should do something about it, organise themselves, petition, campaign whatever

 

[intothewoods]

Whoa. I totally missed this before.

Really? When's the last time some said to you 'Merry Christmas' as apposed to 'Happy Holidays'? When's the last time you saw, on something other than the Christian channel, something to do with Christmas that didn't include Santa?

I never say Happy Holidays. I wish those who celebrate Christmas a Merry Christmas. I've got news for you. I don't want equal time. I like my peace and quiet in December. Please don't put up blue and white shit on my account. I could be wrong - but I'm guessing most devout Muslims don't want equal time either. They are commanded to pray a certain number of times a day, so they do. Likewise, I am not going to work on Jewish high holidays. I don't give two shits if you wish me a Happy New Year around that time. It's no skin off my back. I may be out of line here, but maybe you're pissed off at all of the politically correct folks that take the Christ out of Christmas. But is that really coming from Muslims?

As for Easter - my children don't get Easter break - they get spring break, and it's not even around Easter. They don't bring me pictures of the cross, or stories about Jesus, they bring me pictures of bunnies and eggs. How is that celebrating the meaning behind those holidays?

Please clarify -- are your kids in public school???

If they get to wash their feet and lay out rugs and take time of the day for their prayer, then I freaken want the same consideration. I actually do pray off and on during the day, but I keep it to myself, because that's what's expected.

I don't think it's expected. It's just that Christians don't normally lay out a rug and pray! It's not about equal time, it's about religious tolerance.

If you want to go into it, what about all the employees of the state, and teachers? They can't express their relgion without a crap load of problems. The most they can do is wear a cross necklace. They can't hold prayer meetings or talk to others about their relgioun - but I bet if they were muslim they could. Heck, the way things are going, they could stop right in the middle of a class to have their prayer.

A teacher, or any employee of the state, has the right to practice their religion. Now, there are grey fuzzy areas here. But isn't it pretty clear that you can't preach, or use public money for a religious group, but taking personal time to pray is of course your right under the law?

 

[minx1]

A teacher, or any employee of the state, has the right to practice their religion. Now, there are grey fuzzy areas here. But isn't it pretty clear that you can't preach, or use public money for a religious group, but taking personal time to pray is of course your right under the law?

Thanks for the clarification ITW, for obvious reasons I am not sure of the statutory rights in US.

 

[DVS]

Well, fwiw, I can't speak for IS, but as for me, I am an American and I am thankful for this country. But I wouldn't quite say wholeheartedly, as you did earlier, "we all get along quite well, thank you very much." I'm a Jew. And I'm an American. The short story is, being a Jewish American isn't always as easy as it looks, or something like that.

Well, sure there's going to be problems like that. But, you'll have that anywhere. In a free society, you can't tell people how to think. So, you will always have a certain number of idiots who don't like somebody else because they are different. But, we try not to let someone act upon those hates, if possible. Gays and even BDSM lifestylers are outcast by some people. Black Americans have had their problems. In some situations, they still do. And during WWII, Japanese Americans were often seen as traitors or informants in this country. The Holocaust was a time when people acted on their hatred for the Jewish. And, even with all of the evidence and history about it, there are still some who say that never happened.