Race and BDSM

[GodBlessBreasts]

To what degree does race play a role in BDSM to you? I've noticed some high powered white male executives like to be sub to professional dom black women ... probably to assuage guilt over their position in society? Maybe they don't think it out that far, but I've seen quite a few ads like that on craigslist, so it must gut them off somehow.

And I've noticed more than a few women (of all races) gravitate towards blue-eyed waspy men in the "daddy" role. Ever consciously explored the way race/ethnicity impacts the way you get off in the BDSM context? We don't all live in a colorblind world ...

 

[Limbhugger]

To me at least this is a non-issue. It's like asking why one guy likes to lick toes and another wants to wear diappers. It is their kink. It is their fantasy. It is their world.

Why does a scrawny white CEO want his frumpy stark white wife to force him to suck a muscled black man's cock? Hell I don't know. Guilt assuage? I guess if for some bizarre reason he feels guilty for being white and successful. Maybe he just thinks black guys are good looking. Who knows.

I'm about as white redneck as they come and I don't have any hidden desires to service any particular race. I can find people attractive from any race. Sure, there are just plain hot folks that when you see them you say wow. But then there are those folks that when you meet them you say WOW.

I am far from concerned about race or even bodies. I want to see the person within. I want to feel who they are. That is sexuality.

I have no idea how race correlates to BDSM and I for one don't want to. I just want to see us for who and what we are.

Just my piddly 2 cents.

 

[FungiUg]

To what degree does race play a role in BDSM to you?

Non-issue for me. I agree, we aren't "colour-blind", as much as we should be... considering that what we describe as "races" are simply genetic eddies, not true sub-species. But I have discovered that people look for reasons to discriminate (it's part of our human nature), and the silliest things can be reasons!

Anyway, I'm all about mindset, not colour. I will play with a submissive I find attactive, and colour is not one of the things I determine attractiveness by. Admittedly, were she green, I might be a little put off! (Gangrene is sooo unattractive, don't you think?)

 

[evesdream]

Well, just because ignoring the dynamics is sometimes easy and fun, doesn't mean they aren't there ~ or just as interesting to play with. Racial dynamics are power dynamics after all.

 

[ownedsubgal]

as an american born and raised in the south, i am far from color blind. the races are still not equal (as far as rights, the law, etc.) in our society so one can't help but see color. for some, race does indeed play a factor in their D/s or bdsm lives. my dream Master was the older, white, distinguished southern gent...it honestly never occured to me that i could be owned by a man of my own race (black). as a newbie to the lifestyle, and as a young black female southerner, when i heard the word "Master", i automatically thought...white man. just seemed natural to me. and even now, that i have fallen madly and hopelessly in love with, and am forever the property of, an awesome, powerful, beautiful black Man, i still have a place inside of myself, a part of my submission, that is sort of reserved for Dominant (even slightly Dominant) white men. it's nothing i think about consciously, it's just a different way i carry myself, a different flavor to my service, when the man is white. before i met Daddy, i had an experience with a white Dominant who referred to me as a nigger, and in his presence made me refer to myself that way. it was difficult for me...on the one hand, i was highly insulted/offended/hurt at being called (and seen as) such a degrading thing, then on the other hand, being degraded in that way somehow felt "right". since then i've come across many white Dominants who use that word and other racial slurs with either their own black sub or those they play with...for some it's just a fun kink, with others it's brutal honesty under the guise of kink. i tend to gravitate towards the honest types.

 

[Netzach]

I don't think that color blindness is remotely possible, we're always going to process what we perceive as people's race and ethnicity once it's known.

I had a black sub guy who wanted racially based degredation.

my little PC sphincter contracted very tightly when I was asked this. It was what I thought of as pretty damn near a hard limit. I don't think these things. I don't see people that way.

But I've been trained to see people that way, I'm white, I'm American and my family are unabashedly racist. There's some fragile cranny of my psyche that is, whatever I do, however much I might try and flee or hate it...it's going to stay racist. No matter how many relationships I might have that could have lasted forever with black women, no matter how many Japanese roomates I hang out with, that's the legacy of white skin. I think everyone loses out in the psychosis of racism. But like the best of our neuroses, denial and coverup and guilt are not the answers.

I listened to this guy argue his case. incredibly intelligent, educated, charming, one of the most articulate submissives I've ever played with...

a lawyer, in fact, or so he said, I'm not sure.

"If I thought you actually thought these things about me in a blanket way I could never do this with you." He said.

The way he talked about it was very much the way that a lot of femsubs who have been raped and seek a "rape scene" talk about their desires. "I have to fight these images of me, all the time, every day...and this is a chance for me to just not fight them and it's ok."

That convinced me to give it a shot, with this particular person....the fact that he could articulate his stance and his needs in a way that I was comfortable with the idea.

It's not my preferred kink, but his passionate responses were definitely memorable to me.

 

[James G 5]

WHen I went to Midori's seminar on Humiliation Play last year she spoke at length about using race in a scene
It can take a lot of care & discussion, as it can trigger all sorts of deep seated issues

I am a white male raised in a racist part of the US but in a decidely non-racist way in a very PC house
In fact, I spent part of my time growing up with a black family (I use that term deliberately, they don't like the term Africa-American)
So I've had to put a bit of thought in to the perspective of having a mixed-race lady friend coem to be mone & Pouty's "slave" for a weekend, as on some levels it seems "wrong" to me

Should be interesting to see how it plays out....

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Hmmmm

I read through this thread not once but twice, trying to figure out just how I should articulate what I think. I am bi-racial (multi-ethnic) and I just don't see race-relations the way other people do. For me, race has nothing to do with who I choose to play with..nothing at all.

I can own or submit to any person that strikes my fancy, period. That is how I was raised. True my mother's family is from the south and that is not THEIR way, but it is my mum's way. She does not see color and neither do I.

Race relations are not my idea of a *good* scene. Especially since I have dealt with racisim on both sides of the fence. (From black and white people). Those terms are words that anyone who cares about me at all will never use. They tighten that part of me that wants to lash out.

Do I think badly of others who need to work out their frustrations in scenes like the one mentioned by the lovely Netzach? No. That is their particular kink and they may play however they would like.

But for me, play that way is not something I could indulge in, nor would I want to. A scene is something that stretches one's limits and there are plenty of limits I want stetched. Using vile terms as a way to give me degradtaion is not my idea of stretching my limits.

OK there is my 2 cents.

pet

 

[s'lara]

Another kind of power play i guess.

i recall a movie i saw in the last few months ... it was constructed of a few short stories and incredibly good. Todd Solondz wrote and directed i think. There was one short story where a black college professor (english literature) got involved with a number of white women (students) and he engaged in some bondage/degredation with the women. What was eye-opening is that when he engaged in sex, he demanded that the women verbally abuse him with racial slurs while he forcefully had them. The more the women debased him verbally, the harder he went at it, finally reaching release when they were hurling harsh racial insults at him. i always remembered that and thought it telling because he had a need for his ethnicity to be a part of his sexual satisfaction ... particularly in a masochistic (not necessarily physical pain, but emotional) way.

Does race have a place in BDSM and should it be used as a tool to inflict on another? i have mixed feelings about that. Such practices can have long term damage to someone's self-worth, particularly with submissives. We (subs) offer our vulnerability up for manipulation and if race is a sensitive place, the harm could be irreparable. Still, it is another way to demonstrate power or inflict humiliation and should only be used if the parties involved can handle the after effects.

lara

 

[Mr Blonde]

The movie s'lara referred to was "Storytelling" and here is the IMDB page:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0250081/

The black male professor makes the white female student strip down and beg. "Fuck me hard, nigger!" There had been maybe five people in the theater besides myself, and by the time that sequence was over I was only one left. LOL

I have dated different races and ethnic groups but never had a black submissive. I had a medium length relationship with an Asian submissive but I just treated her as I would an American woman. I am not drawn to "race play" but would not be adverse if the circumstances were right. It would be a matter of 100% trust just like rape fantasies and things of that sort.

I speak only for myself.

 

[Etoile]

The black male professor makes the white female student strip down and beg. "Fuck me hard, nigger!"

Interesting - I would not have expected the word "nigger" to come from a submissive's mouth, especially a white woman. It's such an emotionally charged word that I'm surprised to hear it was that way. I'll have to try to find the movie.

 

[evesdream]

Race play doesn't always have to be about degredation. It can also be about provocation and release, like that film writer might have had in mind.

Aside from the "play" aspects of it, that scene doesn't surprise me at all...why wouldn't a submissive bottom, or a submissive white woman Etoile, have pent up aggression or racism of her own as well?

 

[Etoile]

Race play doesn't always have to be about degredation. It can also be about provocation and release, like that film writer might have had in mind.

Aside from the "play" aspects of it, that scene doesn't surprise me at all...why wouldn't a submissive bottom, or a submissive white woman Etoile, have pent up aggression or racism of her own as well?

I guess I'm just not the type to express anger at somebody who's topping me. It just doesn't mesh in my mind.

 

[evesdream]

i just had a mental image of hundreds of submissives trembling in their restraints with un-expressed rage..which isn't entirely an unappealing vision come to think of it..

Etoile, i'm not sure if it was clear, but what was puzzling to me about what you said is whether you meant a submissive wouldn't have such thoughts, or whether you meant she might have them, but that she probably wouldn't express them.

I haven't seen the movie but i can imagine the rewards of a scene in which the Black professor/top, crop in hand, orders/dares the gun shy and reluctant submissive to call him those names- This is on pain of punishment either way. The tension of this, unbearably hot.

Sometimes, when I don't express anger it's because I don't know how, hence the appeal when someone who is topping me gives me that out, tells me exactly how to express it, in a way giving me permission to do so.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Originally posted by Etoile
Interesting - I would not have expected the word "nigger" to come from a submissive's mouth, especially a white woman. It's such an emotionally charged word that I'm surprised to hear it was that way. I'll have to try to find the movie.

Etoile, please note that he was guiding the scene and she was doing his biding.

 

[sunfox]

Re: Hmmmm

Race relations are not my idea of a *good* scene. Especially since I have dealt with racisim on both sides of the fence. (From black and white people). Those terms are words that anyone who cares about me at all will never use. They tighten that part of me that wants to lash out.

Do I think badly of others who need to work out their frustrations in scenes like the one mentioned by the lovely Netzach? No. That is their particular kink and they may play however they would like.

But for me, play that way is not something I could indulge in, nor would I want to. A scene is something that stretches one's limits and there are plenty of limits I want stetched. Using vile terms as a way to give me degradtaion is not my idea of stretching my limits.

OK there is my 2 cents.

pet

I have to agree with pet, as another biracial person. While I don't find myself offended by someone else's preferences for their scene, racially motivated play is not something that would ever interest me. Point of fact, it would probably be the fastest possible way to shut me down utterly.

That isn't pushing a limit for me.. it's breaking the camel's back with a ton of bricks instead of a straw.

 

[Etoile]

Etoile, please note that he was guiding the scene and she was doing his biding.

I did catch that part, thanks. It still seems odd to me, but ah well. I guess you had to see it.

 

[FungiUg]

I guess for me, it would be like making a sub call me "big ears". (Yep, favourite friend of Noddy, that's me!) Although I suposed if as a Dom, I had a lot of pent up aggression regarding people who had tormented me thoughout my life for the aural protruberances, I could then use that agression to vent on a submissive. And having her call be "big ears" would be a suitable trigger.

Of course, for some odd reason, people out there seem to think that skin colour is more worthy of note that ear size. Go figure.

So I can understand it (kinda), but wouldn't be something I could do myself.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I guess for me, it would be like making a sub call me "big ears". (Yep, favourite friend of Noddy, that's me!) Although I suposed if as a Dom, I had a lot of pent up aggression regarding people who had tormented me thoughout my life for the aural protruberances, I could then use that agression to vent on a submissive. And having her call be "big ears" would be a suitable trigger.

Of course, for some odd reason, people out there seem to think that skin colour is more worthy of note that ear size. Go figure.

So I can understand it (kinda), but wouldn't be something I could do myself.

well speaking as an american southerner, race "play" has nothing whatever to do with skin color for me, and everything to do with culture and history. where i grew up, it's still an everyday ho-hum occurence to see pick-up trucks going down the highway with huge confederate flags flying from the back. race is still a huge issue throughout all of america today (not simply america, but this is what i can speak of from experience)...racism and segregation are still alive and well. people in their 40s and up here can still easily recall days when there were black and white only water fountains, restrooms, etc. so it still touches a nerve for some in sexual "play" because it's so fresh and alive. it's still a very real issue.

the Dominant my Master has brought into our lives is a late
40s-ish white Man from the south..and to him black females have one purpose and one purpose only. He is the type that would never marry or even date, or even likely be publicly seen with a black woman. but who would go well out of his way to find a nice little "chocolate slut" to use and abuse when he gets the urge. it makes for a tension while with him that one can only feel and understand if they grew up here, and that one can only find fulfillment and pleasure in if they are sick and twisted like me.

 

[Netzach]

well speaking as an american southerner, race "play" has nothing whatever to do with skin color for me, and everything to do with culture and history. where i grew up, it's still an everyday ho-hum occurence to see pick-up trucks going down the highway with huge confederate flags flying from the back. race is still a huge issue throughout all of america today (not simply america, but this is what i can speak of from experience)...racism and segregation are still alive and well. people in their 40s and up here can still easily recall days when there were black and white only water fountains, restrooms, etc. so it still touches a nerve for some in sexual "play" because it's so fresh and alive. it's still a very real issue.

the Dominant my Master has brought into our lives is a late
40s-ish white Man from the south..and to him black females have one purpose and one purpose only. He is the type that would never marry or even date, or even likely be publicly seen with a black woman. but who would go well out of his way to find a nice little "chocolate slut" to use and abuse when he gets the urge. it makes for a tension while with him that one can only feel and understand if they grew up here, and that one can only find fulfillment and pleasure in if they are sick and twisted like me.

Wow. How does your Master navigate his relationship with this guy, what's that like? Does he have little to do with him, does the dude's overt racism bother him, does he tolerate it because it helps put you where he likes you and you want to be? Does this guy respect your Master? Here I go firing away like Barbara Walters, feel free to answer none of it, I'm just really curious.

 

[James G 5]

apet4you made interesting use of some of the ideas in this thread in her newest story
I put the link in the story sticky over in the Cafe

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wow. How does your Master navigate his relationship with this guy, what's that like? Does he have little to do with him, does the dude's overt racism bother him, does he tolerate it because it helps put you where he likes you and you want to be? Does this guy respect your Master? Here I go firing away like Barbara Walters, feel free to answer none of it, I'm just really curious.

well Barbara (hehe ), somehow this Man is the sort to have outgrown the total racism that was drilled into him since birth, to the point where he doesn't think negatively of the black race in general, merely that his only possible interest in black females is how they can serve his various needs (cleaning his home and sucking his cock). with black men he has no issue, and he and Daddy actually have quite a camraderie between them. understand that i am not to speak much with the other Men i serve, this particular Man included, so virtually all of the information sharing, discussion of limits, likes and dislikes, what will and won't be done, etc., was between them only. so far he has shown he respects my Master, and my Master trusts him enough to leave me alone with him for periods of time. also, they both love the same football team, that alone is enough to make two Men friends for life, lol. but it was very difficult for Daddy to find such a person...someone who would degrade me out of a natural sense/feeling of superiority over me because of my race, but who would not be an overall racist idiot that he would have to beat down. the line is thin.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

OSG...I am glad you chose to answer Netzach's questions as they were bothering me a bit as well. The fact that you are content and happy in your relationship makes me smile. Even if I don't understand what makes you tick, the fact that you crave something I don't understand makes you an interesting person to read. So thanks again for your answers.

 

[Guest]

my two coppers....

I am also bi-racial. Or quad racial I guess one could say.... My mother was white, my father was black. I grew up knowing that I may have issues in both worlds. *smiles* Somedays I do some days I don't but that is really not the issue.

There are pieces of me that truly long for a strong forceful black man to dominant me. There are pieces of me that want a strong black Daddy. There are other pieces that want a strong forceful white dominant man and pieces still that want a strong white Daddy.

I don't think this is confusing I believe that we are all pieces of the wholes within ourselves and at any time we identify with some and not others.

I have been sub, slave and baby-girl. I do not have issues with men of any color, race, creed, etc blah yada....

I have been told though.... "well your the stupid nigger that sold herself back into slavery"

*rolls her eyes* long live equality

Always,
Elizabetht

Iwoso & the Sheik {Anal}
Jim Takes Control {BDSM}
Standing in the Corner {BDSM}
I Now Pronounce You... {Group Sex}
Kaitherine's Graduation Day {Incest/Taboo}
Kaitherine's Graduation Day Ch. 02 {Incest/Taboo}
Letter to My Lover {Letters & Transcripts}
Gordon's New Wife {NonConsent/Reluctance}
David {Non-Erotic Poetry}

 

[GodBlessBreasts]

apet4you made interesting use of some of the ideas in this thread in her newest story
I put the link in the story sticky over in the Cafe

Apet ... interesting story ... creative play on some of these ideas. *thumbs up*