~ R a p e ~

[twysted73]

Women like the idea as much as they detest the reality.

Why the conflicting opinion?
I've spoken with so many women on this. Each of them ranging from "what they've seen in movies" to actual traumatic events and further.

All rail against the unconsentual activities but then pin point that same helplessness as the source of the attraction.
Undeniably it is quite a fine line between the two with actual pre-conceived consent being that deciding factor.

Ladies, gentlemen and all inbetween..I eagerly invite you to stop and offer your opinions without fear of judgement or argument.
I start this as a topic of conversation and not meant as a sounding board for misdirected hurt or anger.
I understand it's the emotion that draws you in.
But this is something I have long wondered about and insight is my goal and focus.

What is the draw for you? Either the recipient or the administrator?

 

[Betticus]

I'd like to be raped by my slave, good lord that would be hot!

 

[unfoundiamond]

Rape

I think that this is a incredibly loaded topic...

I have always had a reocurring rape fantasy, since young childhood, I'd lay in bed and fantisize about a man coming in my window and covering my mouth and taking me, my virginity...

I only know this was fantisizing because I would secretly hope it would happen, but as with all my young fantasies, I had a idea of the kind of man I wanted, He was tall dark and handsome... I found him attractive, like I would have done it if he asked, but he didn't kind of thing.
(funny how the mind works even when young, sometimes especially because)

I didn't have any hopes for a orgasam(and at 6 or 7 you don't know what one is), the thing I wanted most, was for him to take my body, enjoy it, and "make me"....

I was never molested... so don't put that idea as the reason I daydreampt of this...

I also like to watch rape porn, a lot... In fact I like it best. I like to see them get that violated look in their face, when it twists up and looks pained, It makes my orgasam come faster...

But being raped sucked. (Non consentual rape is unexplainably painful) I wouldn't wish it on anyone, except the men who raped me. I wish they would be raped untill the bled to death from their asses, but... that's because they held me down and ignored my cries.

I believe the line is drawn between right and wrong with consent... If there is none, it is wrong, or if its a "innocent" (someone too young/old/mentally incomptient/on drugs to the point of being incapable of saying no or stopping the unwanted sexual theft.

Revenge rape, is the worst... when someone rapes you to get revenge on you for doing something or being someone is a topic that makes me wanna be a activist... Like when people in the trans community began being raped if their genetic sex came out, I could hardly stop crying the first time I heard of Matthew Shephard and Teena Brandon (of my time, I know there are more I don't know of), and once I did I wanted to do something... I don't want to see that... it kills me...

I don't take any pleasure in real rape scenes... like in "Boys don't Cry". I was angry, still am. I don't see how people can get turned on by real rape... I like rape porn but when she is telling them what name to write the check too its hardly really forced...

I like consentual rape... I just don't want it to look like she is having a princess tea party, I want her *secretly* performing for me... not having her soul ripped at...

 

[Caitlynne]

Boy this is a loaded topic. I'll offer my own opinion based on observation in life and personal experience. Please know up front that I'm no expert and these are only my own opinions. I'm not condoning anything.

The rape fantasy is wrapped up in "permission" for me. It's all about relieving me of having to ask for what I want, or give consent. It's about having absolutely no responsibility at all for what happens. There is some helplessness. lack of power, etc wrapped up in there too, with a bright red bow of dominance to make it a fascinating package for fantasy material. But the main element of my own rape fantasies is the lack of responsibility. This is an off shoot of some particular baggage of mine, but none of that baggage is relevant to rape, so I'll leave it alone. Just know that this is an enticing element. [luckily it can be produced through other types of scenes.]

But rape in real life isn't about allowing me to feel a lack of responsibility. In fact, in our culture it is the exact opposite. Besides the pain, and physical, mental and emotional damage, rape in our culture *does* in fact make the victim responsible. At least that was my experience personally. Not only that, but responsible with very little sympathy.

I think it is this breakdown from fantasy to reality that makes the experience so different from the fantasy. Because let's face it, if you have a kink about non-consent you should be able to reproduce it or experience it in real life. Yet, that isn't the normal reaction to real rape, even for kinksters or women with rape fantasies.

But this is a breakdown in fantasy vs. real life in a lot of fantasies. Rape is only one of them. Take a gang bang for instance. Those fantasies are hot at times. But the reality of actually being dragged off the street and gang raped isn't. Kidnapping is the same. I used to have really intense kidnapping fantasies, but the reality is of course entirely different.

To put it simply, one is fantasy. You control the script. You design the players. They are always hot and big and strong, and you secretly "like" them anyway, or would. They aren't going to kill you, because 'hey' it's your fantasy and you know the outcome. All of that places you in control . Get it. YOU are in control. Thinking about being out of control might be hot, but it's still you in charge of the thinking.

In real life, someone else is actually in control, and they *might* kill you. They are in charge of the script. Whole other kettle of fish if you ask me, and that is why rape fantasies don't translate well to real life rape [now I'm not taking about consensual non-consent scenes], the control is in your hands in a fantasy, and control resides in the rapists hands in real life. You've no idea how much that changes the dynamics and results. It works much better is the one having the fantasy is the rapist, then the control is continuously in his/her hands. Then the results can translate from fantasy to real life. [as we see in our culture all the time BTW]

Additionally, I think this fantasy vs. real life is at the very crux of the BDSM spectrum and why it is so important to 'match your kinks' so to speak in a D/s relationship. To some the fantasy of a nice spanking or flogging is hot, but the real life one hurts. This transition from fantasy to real life is all about finding where you are and what your kinks are all about. It might get you wet to think about it, but in that 'scene' that makes you so hot, is gonna hurt in real life. there are going to be real bruises, welts, blood, trips to the doctor, etc. Is that your kink? Think about it.


All of these areas have a dramatic transition from the mental arena to the physical one. It's at the bottom of the on-line vs. real life D/s debate. Trust us, we all know that on line is intense. We do. It's all emotional and mental, and lord knows intensity is created in the mind. We know that is real, and on line you can explore all the fantasies that might be impossible to reproduce in real life.

BUT, [oh come on now you knew it was coming] real life is physical. The pain is real. The pain and physical damage is real. It's not a story you're creating with someone else. You'd doing it. It has a different set of rules and is also limited by the laws of the physical universe. Sometimes you just can't bend that way or stay in a cage, or in bondage for days. Sometimes that great ass fucking is gonna create a "mess". Sometimes a rape fantasy, while hot, isn't in real life.

What helped me with this fantasy [because I sure did have it, although not so much anymore], was to look at the elements of the fantasy that got me so hot. I really dissected it. Or, I was commanded to do it at the time. To look at it so I could have it, but in a way that was really going to give me what I needed.

Like I said, for me it boiled down to a compete lack of responsibility for what was happening. That was the key. It wasn't the rape at all, which can't be reproduced with the same result as a fantasy can. [at least not for me] It was the helplessness, lack of control, and the utter lack of responsibility. I had none. There was nothing I could do. Literally, nothing I could do. And so I was blameless. Now that can be reproduced from fantasy to real life with the result I needed--and it is hot.

 

[postulant]

Yeah, what she said!

p.

 

[twysted73]

Ah postulant...

Yeah, what she said!

p.

Ever the loquacious linguist.

 

[postulant]

LOL! More like the laconic linguist.

Caitlynne really summed up my point-of-view very well though. Why potter with perfection?

p. (who adores alliteration)

 

[bandelero]

LOL! More like the laconic linguist.


p. (who adores alliteration)

Alliteration almost always adds an artistic aesthetic

meh

 

[FurryFury]

Rape is hot as a fantasy for me because I can remain a "good" girl while enjoying being "forced" into what I secretly crave.

Rape in RL is not hot for me. Why there is a difference should be obvious.

In RL I wanted to remain a good girl. That didn't work out so well. I won't go into the boring details on how messed up that part of my life was.

I believe our society is set up to make women fantasied about rape and in RL, say no regardless in order to be good. At the same time men are taught to take charge. This can lead to real rape.

I will just say, girls should be taught that having sexual desire is not bad. You don't have to be "in love." You will not "just know" when it is the right time. You do not have to be married. You can have sex alone or with others because you want to and be good.

They should also be taught to use proper safety protocol, not "birth control" in these things because the worst thing isn't a baby it's disease and even death.

Boys should be taught the same things and that when a girl says no, that means no for them at that moment.

That's my thoughts on this rape thing. To me, all these things are pretty strongly connected.

Must run!

*waves*

 

[unfoundiamond]

Well...

I think this goes back to consent...
I don't know that flogging is the best example but since Caitlyn used it well keep in the same context...
I enjoy a flogging EMENSELY, but if someone walked up to me and whipped me, without my express consent, I'd likely get arrested for kicking their ass and flogging THEM in return. I am a fim believer that my fellow mans "rights end where my nose begins", (first stated by Thomas Paine, I don't remeber the exact quote, and don't want to give the impression its my original thought).

This is like then someone fantisizes about rape, and then is drugged and "gang" raped, its not the envigorating adrenaline rush like it might be. Had you planned it with your lover, and done the rape "scene" it would probably be more like the envigorating feeling I get from being whipped HARD... because its consentual, not because I asked them to so much as I really had agreed, and wouldn't be in danger.

 

[Caitlynne]

I think this goes back to consent...
I don't know that flogging is the best example but since Caitlyn used it well keep in the same context...
I enjoy a flogging EMENSELY, but if someone walked up to me and whipped me, without it, I'd likely get arrested for kicking their ass and beating THEM in return. I am a fim believer that my fellow mans "rights end where my nose begins", (first stated by Thomas Paine, I don't remeber the exact quote, and don't want to give the impression its my original thought).

This is like then someone fantisizes about rape, and then is drugged and "gang" raped, its not the envigorating adrenaline rush like it might be. Had you planned it with your lover, and done the rape "scene" it would probably be more like the envigorating feeling I get from being whipped HARD... because its consentual, not because I asked them to so much as I really had agreed, and wouldn't be in danger.

Well I was using a less emotionally charged activity to illustrate the difference between fantasy and real life, but in your example of flogging, the element you're describing is consent. You might love a flogging, but that's not a blanket consent to every Tom, Dick or Harry walking down the street to pull out a flogger and have at it.

It's why women culturally aren't supposed to say the like sex. Because it is taken as implicit consent to sex with whoever comes along. [Don't ask me why it's this way culturally, I don't make the rules.] Just go to any rape trial and you'll see the defense that's used. "She wanted it, and she wants it all the time. I just gave her what she wanted." All the while parading the lovers a woman has had to prove she wanted it. If you think it won't get a rapist off -- think again.

So, the key you're talking about is consent. You like a good flogging and when the circumstances are right and you consent, you thoroughly enjoy it. If the circumstances were wrong and you didn't give consent, you probably wouldn't enjoy it. It's all about willingness to experience certain things--Consent!

It's a concept that could fill pages of discussion because of the emotional and mental changes we all have when we are willing to experience something as opposed to unwilling. It' simply monumental.

But that doesn't account for the so called 'rape fantasies' in women and what they are about. You don't consent to rape, and yet women have rape fantasies. Maybe we should call them by another name. Maybe they aren't rape fantasies at all for the majority. [although I do know a sub who has a bona fide rape fantasy and would like to be raped in real life.. so I'm not talking about the people who do 'get off' on the unwillingness part.] Maybe the fantasies are about something else--not rape.

 

[Marquis]

Here's something I don't tell a lot of people, but I appreciate the maturity of this discussion, so here goes.

It's no secret that I have a pretty cavalier attitude when it comes to some hardcore shit. I think that often gives the impression that I might be more dangerous than is really seen as acceptable in the BDSM community. It's something I've dealt with here and in my local community.

My mother was basically abandoned when she was young and was in a lot of bad situations. She was raped and being her best friend as well as her son, I heard a lot about it.

The anguish my mother went through dealing with this her whole life is something I'd never wish on anyone. I think this is a good part of why I had such conflicting feelings about my desires when I was a freshman to my own sexuality. It could also be part of why those fantasies have always been so prevalent for me, I don't really know for sure.

Suffice it to say, despite how I feel about rape, the torment it causes the victim and the victim's close ones, I am ok with who I am. And if there is a girl who wants me to rape her, I am ok with that too.

 

[nh23]

Well I was using a less emotionally charged activity to illustrate the difference between fantasy and real life, but in your example of flogging, the element you're describing is consent. You might love a flogging, but that's not a blanket consent to every Tom, Dick or Harry walking down the street to pull out a flogger and have at it.

It's why women culturally aren't supposed to say the like sex. Because it is taken as implicit consent to sex with whoever comes along. [Don't ask me why it's this way culturally, I don't make the rules.] Just go to any rape trial and you'll see the defense that's used. "She wanted it, and she wants it all the time. I just gave her what she wanted." All the while parading the lovers a woman has had to prove she wanted it. If you think it won't get a rapist off -- think again.

So, the key you're talking about is consent. You like a good flogging and when the circumstances are right and you consent, you thoroughly enjoy it. If the circumstances were wrong and you didn't give consent, you probably wouldn't enjoy it. It's all about willingness to experience certain things--Consent!

It's a concept that could fill pages of discussion because of the emotional and mental changes we all have when we are willing to experience something as opposed to unwilling. It' simply monumental.

But that doesn't account for the so called 'rape fantasies' in women and what they are about. You don't consent to rape, and yet women have rape fantasies. Maybe we should call them by another name. Maybe they aren't rape fantasies at all for the majority. [although I do know a sub who has a bona fide rape fantasy and would like to be raped in real life.. so I'm not talking about the people who do 'get off' on the unwillingness part.] Maybe the fantasies are about something else--not rape.

JM had several good posts about this on Velvet's thread. Here are a few of them.
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25169024&postcount=33
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25173137&postcount=54

 

[postulant]

Marquis, I appreciate you sharing that. It's fascinating to hear another perspective on this issue!

I can imagine the conflict that must have created within you initially, trying to reconcile the urge to dominate and punish women with your fury at the people that had hurt your mother.

As many have pointed out in this thread though, it's all about consent.

p.

 

[HB1965]

As far as criminal rape I have no interest in that. As far as raping another, for the domme part of me I'm more into the idea of heavy handed persuasion than I am with complete force. For the subside though, with someone that I love and care about I would allow my body to be used however they see fit because I trust them not to hurt me and not push my hard limits.

 

[madetotakeit]

I agree with so many of the above statements. For years it was the belief that women should not have libidinous thoughts. Puritanical dogma instructed that sex was for procreation. This sets up a dichotomy with what is hardwired into our makeup. We are supposed to enjoy sex. Otherwise what is the orgasm for? A built in timer to let you know when to stop? Our bodies are designed to be enticing, we produce pheromones to signal attraction and readiness, we have hormones to drive us towards coupling. Women were supposed to ignore all of those things?


Fantasies are an idealized situation. Everything is perfect. There are no mis-strokes or wrong words spoken. The players are flawless. Rape fantasies are no different. They have nothing to do with real life. A creation of the mind to express desires. Mine involve either someone who has wrapped themselves around my psyche or carry the characteristics thereof. While I am helpless, I am not truly. Even the rape fantasy is a scene. In some way I know the players and so feel secure in what will happen. It also varies in elements depending on what particular kink has captured my attention that day.

There is a release of responsibility in what you desire. But at the same time there is an accountability. In some way in my fantasies I have let my guard down and placed myself in jeopardy. Whether it be be doing in the wrong thing or not recognizing ulterior motives in someone. (Not getting into the "asking for it" statement, because in real life there is no such thing!)

On the other hand, the ego is invested in this fantasy as well. To be so desired that this man (or men- again depending on that days menu) that he is so effected he is unable to control that desire. There is no choice but to act upon it. The animal takes over and he takes what he wants. Even though my mind has set up what happens (it is my fantasy after all)it is projected onto him. I'm experiencing those things because that is what he wants. (That drives the sub in me too. Yes I want to feel so many things, but I need to have someone who wants to see me go through that. To have his eyes light up as chill bumps cover my body from a touch that is agonizingly light, my back arch at something that stings...)In essence, even though I have the rush of the "fight or flight" reaction kicking in I am never in true peril. Adrenaline is a wonderful thing.

I have not had the chance to experience this in a scene. I hope that when I do it comes close to images that play through my mind. To place myself before someone I trust and say, "This is yours you do with as you wish. My fantasy fulfilled through your fantasies."

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

If it's in a consensual context , it's not rape.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

JM had several good posts about this on Velvet's thread. Here are a few of them.
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25169024&postcount=33
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=25173137&postcount=54

May assist perhaps to link the entire thread for the sake of context . LINK

Netzach also made a significant contributions that resonated quite personally for me.

I know linking threads can seem a little presumptuous at times, though the thread I have linked above is not only very recent, it gives prime examples of ideas being discussed in this thread.

 

[nh23]

May assist perhaps to link the entire thread for the sake of context . LINK

Netzach also made a significant contributions that resonated quite personally for me.

I know linking threads can seem a little presumptuous at times, though the thread I have linked above is not only very recent, it gives prime examples of ideas being discussed in this thread.

Thank You rebecca I hadn't thought of linking the entire thread.

 

[FeistyOrchid]

Boy this is a loaded topic. I'll offer my own opinion based on observation in life and personal experience. Please know up front that I'm no expert and these are only my own opinions. I'm not condoning anything.

The rape fantasy is wrapped up in "permission" for me. It's all about relieving me of having to ask for what I want, or give consent. It's about having absolutely no responsibility at all for what happens. There is some helplessness. lack of power, etc wrapped up in there too, with a bright red bow of dominance to make it a fascinating package for fantasy material. But the main element of my own rape fantasies is the lack of responsibility. This is an off shoot of some particular baggage of mine, but none of that baggage is relevant to rape, so I'll leave it alone. Just know that this is an enticing element. [luckily it can be produced through other types of scenes.]

But rape in real life isn't about allowing me to feel a lack of responsibility. In fact, in our culture it is the exact opposite. Besides the pain, and physical, mental and emotional damage, rape in our culture *does* in fact make the victim responsible. At least that was my experience personally. Not only that, but responsible with very little sympathy.

I think it is this breakdown from fantasy to reality that makes the experience so different from the fantasy. Because let's face it, if you have a kink about non-consent you should be able to reproduce it or experience it in real life. Yet, that isn't the normal reaction to real rape, even for kinksters or women with rape fantasies.

But this is a breakdown in fantasy vs. real life in a lot of fantasies. Rape is only one of them. Take a gang bang for instance. Those fantasies are hot at times. But the reality of actually being dragged off the street and gang raped isn't. Kidnapping is the same. I used to have really intense kidnapping fantasies, but the reality is of course entirely different.

To put it simply, one is fantasy. You control the script. You design the players. They are always hot and big and strong, and you secretly "like" them anyway, or would. They aren't going to kill you, because 'hey' it's your fantasy and you know the outcome. All of that places you in control . Get it. YOU are in control. Thinking about being out of control might be hot, but it's still you in charge of the thinking.

In real life, someone else is actually in control, and they *might* kill you. They are in charge of the script. Whole other kettle of fish if you ask me, and that is why rape fantasies don't translate well to real life rape [now I'm not taking about consensual non-consent scenes], the control is in your hands in a fantasy, and control resides in the rapists hands in real life. You've no idea how much that changes the dynamics and results. It works much better is the one having the fantasy is the rapist, then the control is continuously in his/her hands. Then the results can translate from fantasy to real life. [as we see in our culture all the time BTW]

Additionally, I think this fantasy vs. real life is at the very crux of the BDSM spectrum and why it is so important to 'match your kinks' so to speak in a D/s relationship. To some the fantasy of a nice spanking or flogging is hot, but the real life one hurts. This transition from fantasy to real life is all about finding where you are and what your kinks are all about. It might get you wet to think about it, but in that 'scene' that makes you so hot, is gonna hurt in real life. there are going to be real bruises, welts, blood, trips to the doctor, etc. Is that your kink? Think about it.


All of these areas have a dramatic transition from the mental arena to the physical one. It's at the bottom of the on-line vs. real life D/s debate. Trust us, we all know that on line is intense. We do. It's all emotional and mental, and lord knows intensity is created in the mind. We know that is real, and on line you can explore all the fantasies that might be impossible to reproduce in real life.

BUT, [oh come on now you knew it was coming] real life is physical. The pain is real. The pain and physical damage is real. It's not a story you're creating with someone else. You'd doing it. It has a different set of rules and is also limited by the laws of the physical universe. Sometimes you just can't bend that way or stay in a cage, or in bondage for days. Sometimes that great ass fucking is gonna create a "mess". Sometimes a rape fantasy, while hot, isn't in real life.

What helped me with this fantasy [because I sure did have it, although not so much anymore], was to look at the elements of the fantasy that got me so hot. I really dissected it. Or, I was commanded to do it at the time. To look at it so I could have it, but in a way that was really going to give me what I needed.

Like I said, for me it boiled down to a compete lack of responsibility for what was happening. That was the key. It wasn't the rape at all, which can't be reproduced with the same result as a fantasy can. [at least not for me] It was the helplessness, lack of control, and the utter lack of responsibility. I had none. There was nothing I could do. Literally, nothing I could do. And so I was blameless. Now that can be reproduced from fantasy to real life with the result I needed--and it is hot.

Very, very well said! I totally agree.

 

[Netzach]

I honestly have never really had a significant erotic fantasy around the idea of rape, er being raped - raping/ravishing sometimes, but it's not a really large piece of the psychosexual pie. It's something I've considered mildly exploring in one relationship, but honestly it was never something I thought about independently during my development.

I DO fantasize about making men into instruments with which I can rape others, usually other men. Convoluted fun.

I've never wanted to give up responsibility or get permission at the price of control, delicious control.

I don't have a very uptight upbringing, I don't think I'm ignoring some huge personal truth or too uptight to get into it. Some guys I've met have never had a wet dream, I just chalk it up to issues of wiring.

So as far as "women like the idea" well, maybe 1 out of every 1000 really doesn't even care for the idea. But will do you hard up the butt with her hand over your mouth, so it's a tradeoff.

 

[EmpressFi]

I cant explain myself any better than what's already been said..

but I've long had the fantasy of being raped, taken by force.. but again, it's something that in the agreeing, in the discussing, etc, I'd have a bit of control.. unlike the reality of being raped

 

[kimbernee]

I will just say, girls should be taught that having sexual desire is not bad. You don't have to be "in love." You will not "just know" when it is the right time. You do not have to be married. You can have sex alone or with others because you want to and be good.

Wow, great. So true. I bet you've nailed it.

 

[billythedog]

Is it rape

I agree with most other people here, Rape was a massive fantasy for me and when i finally found a partner that i could trust we were able to enact it.

It was truly amazing, but and i think this is the most important part. We had a safe word, we discussed it at length and decided that (beyond common sense) there was nothing we couldn't try as far as a simulated rape was concerned,

I kind of like to think of it as 'Safe Rape', if you have an element of control why not, i think that pigs that actually rape women should be strung up by there balls from the nearest tree but we shouldn't be so narrow minded as to not see the allure of this kind of sexual act.

Nic.

 

[bridgeburner]

I like the objectification and I like the focused attention --- even though the woman is being used and objectified she's still the reason for the action.

I say 'the woman' because it's never me. I tend to fantasize from a split perspective --- that of a voyeur and that of the rapist(s). I like the jeering crowd.