Questions for Foreigners

[8letters]

I have an idea for a story set in England that I like to find out if it is remotely realistic.

The main female character is twenty. When she finished her schooling to 16, she didn't want to do anything. Her post-16 education was something beneath her intellect. Once it was done, she went on unemployment and lived on the dole for the next two years. She's living in a flat with two roommates at the start of the story. She moves into a tiny one-bedroom flat in a bad neighborhood a little later in the story. She then decides to attend University.

Can a woman have that life story in England today?

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

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[Lori_the_Hoosier]

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[oggbashan]

I have an idea for a story set in England that I like to find out if it is remotely realistic.

The main female character is twenty. When she finished her schooling to 16, she didn't want to do anything. Her post-16 education was something beneath her intellect. Once it was done, she went on unemployment and lived on the dole for the next two years. She's living in a flat with two roommates at the start of the story. She moves into a tiny one-bedroom flat in a bad neighborhood a little later in the story. She then decides to attend University.

Can a woman have that life story in England today?

Unlikely unless she acquires reasonable A levels (exams at 18). She could get them through evening classes and would get a discount for being unemployed. Some universities provide a year-long scheme for adult returners to get their studies up to university entrance level - but the cost would be difficult unless she had an income beyond unemployment benefits.

I knew a couple of young men who did that. They had been to poor schools and weren't engaged with education, took basic jobs, and then decided they could do better for themselves. It took about four years of study to get to a standard acceptable for university entrance and they struggled in their first years but got their degrees by about 25. Others achieved degrees by encouragement and support from their employers.

 

[8letters]

Unlikely unless she acquires reasonable A levels (exams at 18). She could get them through evening classes and would get a discount for being unemployed. Some universities provide a year-long scheme for adult returners to get their studies up to university entrance level - but the cost would be difficult unless she had an income beyond unemployment benefits.

I knew a couple of young men who did that. They had been to poor schools and weren't engaged with education, took basic jobs, and then decided they could do better for themselves. It took about four years of study to get to a standard acceptable for university entrance and they struggled in their first years but got their degrees by about 25. Others achieved degrees by encouragement and support from their employers.

Thanks for this. Money would be no problem - her parents would be happy to pay all expenses if she'd start working towards going to university instead of wasting her life.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I have an idea for a story set in England that I like to find out if it is remotely realistic.

The main female character is twenty...
Can a woman have that life story in England today?

Adding to what Ogg said, you'd say 'she left school at 16' or 'after her GCSEs'. If she's 20 now, she'd have been required to do some sort of education or training or get a job, probably some undemanding course at a further education college as he parents wouldn't let her escape that.

Signing on after that is possible, but under-25s don't get much housing benefit. Sharing with students is tricky as students are exempt from council tax, whereas she wouldn't be (though would then get council tax benefit from being on the dole), and flats which take unemployed Universal Credit recipients are few and generally not great. Her flatmates or housemates (not roommates unless they share a bedroom!) might be dodgy, being found by the landlord as they'd each rent a room separately.

There probably are areas where someone could afford a studio flat on the dole, but not in the SouthEast, very unlikely under 25 anywhere. Unless it's cheap because the landlord wants favours or also lives there (or both...) If her parents aren't actively abusive, she'd be much better off staying with them. Other options include being a live-in guardian for a building, living in someone's annex or caravan, etc.

Going to uni after a few years out is getting increasingly common, but she'd have to do a Foundation course or Access course (1 year) or A-levels.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

Thanks for this. Money would be no problem - her parents would be happy to pay all expenses if she'd start working towards going to university instead of wasting her life.

UK universities require a minimum of 3 passes at A-Level (which takes 2 years, 1st Year at age 16-17 is A*, min. passes at Grade 'C' or better, usually the minimum acceptable would be 2 'B's and a 'C, then 2nd Year age 17-18 at AS-Level', overall passes again would be aggregated over the two years to hopefully come out at a minimum of 2 B-passes and 1 at 'C' or better)

Obviously, the better the scores the more interested univerities will be willing in offering a place, but you can't sit an A* subject if you dont have the corresponding GCSE pass at B or better at age 16.

Most Upper schools require reasonably good GCSE passes at C or better to consider you for acceptance for university prep in the upper school; if you don't have acceptable GCSE's, they'll consider you a dilution of the A-level class and refuse you admission; this is why most secondary schools offer re-sits during the Summer holiday to give student a second chance to raise their GCSE scores.

It's also eminently possible to leave school, and a few years later return to full-time education at a college, or even night-school, and study for the A-Levels necessary to support a univsrsity application,

When my stepdaughter was applying to enter the upper school to study her A-Levels, she sweated on her GCSE scores to justify and support her application. Most Upper schools ('6th Form') only require 3 reasonably good GCSE passes in the subjects you intend to study at A-Level; you can't use a GCSE A's in Geography, History and Art to support your application to study Pure Math, Physics, and Chemistry at AS-Level; there has to be connection, an obvious pattern of study and attainment.

Finally, if the three universities you applied to don't accept you, for whatever reason, all is not lost; your application goes in what UCAS (University And College Admission Service ) calls 'clearing', where your application is matched to unfilled slots at universities you didn't initially apply to. It's a 'get what you're given' system, but it ensures that all those who've applied will get an academic place at a university somewhere in the UK, just not the ones you've applied to.

 

[8letters]

Adding to what Ogg said

Thanks for the info.

you'd say 'she left school at 16' or 'after her GCSEs'. If she's 20 now, she'd have been required to do some sort of education or training or get a job, probably some undemanding course at a further education college as he parents wouldn't let her escape that.

I'd imagine vocational training on how to do office work or being an accounting clerk. Would that be a T level in management and administration?

Then once she's done with vocational training, she'd "look for work", but intentionally not find a job. She'd live on what unemployment benefits she could get.

Signing on after that is possible, but under-25s don't get much housing benefit. Sharing with students is tricky as students are exempt from council tax, whereas she wouldn't be (though would then get council tax benefit from being on the dole), and flats which take unemployed Universal Credit recipients are few and generally not great. Her flatmates or housemates (not roommates unless they share a bedroom!) might be dodgy, being found by the landlord as they'd each rent a room separately.

Money for housing wouldn't be a problem. Her parents would give her some money, and she'd get cash money from another source.

There probably are areas where someone could afford a studio flat on the dole, but not in the SouthEast, very unlikely under 25 anywhere. Unless it's cheap because the landlord wants favours or also lives there (or both...) If her parents aren't actively abusive, she'd be much better off staying with them. Other options include being a live-in guardian for a building, living in someone's annex or caravan, etc.

She'd pay much of the rent in cash. I'm imagining she'd be renting what we in the US would call a garage apartment or a mother-in-law house from the owner of the residence. The story is set in Newcastle upon Tyne.

Going to uni after a few years out is getting increasingly common, but she'd have to do a Foundation course or Access course (1 year) or A-levels.

Couldn't she go to a Further Education college to get back on the path to attending University? I'd like her to study full-time to get her A-level qualifications (referred to as A-levels for short, correct?). At university, she'd be studying Music.

 

[oggbashan]

Then once she's done with vocational training, she'd "look for work", but intentionally not find a job. She'd live on what unemployment benefits she could get.



Couldn't she go to a Further Education college to get back on the path to attending University? I'd like her to study full-time to get her A-level qualifications (referred to as A-levels for short, correct?). At university, she'd be studying Music.

If she was under 25 and not in employment she would be constantly harassed under the NEET (Not in Employment, Education or Training) scheme. which could be unpleasant. But many NEET courses she would be offered would be mickey-mouse ones that lead nowhere and are intended for those with NO intelligence.

She would be at some sort of institution from 16 - 18 anyway. If she left that with insufficient qualifications why? Lack of motivation? Wrong courses?

Music? The demand for Music places is very strong and the supply very limited. A late starter would find getting one very difficult.

PS. And after getting a music degree, unless she worked in teaching, and music teaching is being de-emphasized because of budget cuts, getting any paid job would be VERY hard. My sister-in-law got a music degree (1st) from Goldsmiths College. Apart from a couple of years as a part-time school music teacher, she has never been able to support herself through music so she switched to computing.

 

[8letters]

If she was under 25 and not in employment she would be constantly harassed under the NEET (Not in Employment, Education or Training) scheme. which could be unpleasant. But many NEET courses she would be offered would be mickey-mouse ones that lead nowhere and are intended for those with NO intelligence.

She would be at some sort of institution from 16 - 18 anyway. If she left that with insufficient qualifications why? Lack of motivation? Wrong courses?

Music? The demand for Music places is very strong and the supply very limited. A late starter would find getting one very difficult.

Lack of motivation. She did very well on her GCSE's and could have gone to the sixth form school of her choice. She wanted to continue in Music and was told that the demand for Music places is very strong and the supply very limited, and that she wasn't good enough to get one of those places. She's a singer and plays no instruments. So she quit. From that point on, she did the minimum to get by. She spent her days doing as little as possible.

Then when she's twenty, she decides it's time to make something of her life. She decides to get back on track to go to University. Music would be nice, but it wouldn't have to be Music.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have an idea for a story set in England that I like to find out if it is remotely realistic.

I'd have thought it tricky to write a contemporary story set in a country you know little about - you'll miss a whole bunch of nuance you know nothing about, and the story might come across as a bit odd to those that live there.

I cringe when I read stories set in Australia written by someone who obviously has never lived here, and hasn't done enough homework.

Someone with a true passion for music isn't going to give up, so there's a motivational weakness in story telling, right there. Write what you know, I'd say.

 

[8letters]

I'd have thought it tricky to write a contemporary story set in a country you know little about - you'll miss a whole bunch of nuance you know nothing about, and the story might come across as a bit odd to those that live there.

I cringe when I read stories set in Australia written by someone who obviously has never lived here, and hasn't done enough homework.

Someone with a true passion for music isn't going to give up, so there's a motivational weakness in story telling, right there. Write what you know, I'd say.

I wrote a story that's primarily set in Ireland. I've never been there. It won second place in a contest and is in the I/T HoF.

It takes far more homework, but the homework is interesting. I got enough details right that people forgave the details I got wrong.

 

[ishtat]

Small point but if you want to start someone at Uni when they are younger they can/could start in Scotland at 17. For many years Uni degrees in Scotland were 4 year courses instead of 3 in England, so the end result was similar. My ancient head teacher often recommended Scottish Unis for students he thought were immature because he reasoned the first year was an easier transition from the school environment.

That difference does not mean Scottish Unis are less academically rigorous.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

If her parents are going to give her some money, she'd likely try to avoid having to sign on at all...

Music can be studied as an academic subject which might be feasible, but as a practical subject I very much doubt she'd get into any respected college of music - a new uni or FE course in a modern musical discipline, maybe.

What is central to the story - being in Newcastle, how she makes money, or the uni?

I agree it's much easier to write what you know a bit about, but also it's fun to try different things and see how it goes. I wrote a couple scenes when I first got Covid, kept adding to it, and found I'd written a novel about Northern Ireland and the Troubles and the Army, none of which I'd ever recommend any outsider write about! To be fair, a lot is based on stories from friends and I did use to travel there for work, but I was consulting slang dictionaries and then getting rid of 2/3 of the dialect to make it comprehensible. I was expecting a lot of complaints but only ones have been from guys complaining I can't write gay sex - not that it got many views. I'm finally watching Derry Girls and I've done a better job than I thought on the descriptions and dialect.

 

[Payne_Hall]

I'd have thought it tricky to write a contemporary story set in a country you know little about - you'll miss a whole bunch of nuance you know nothing about, and the story might come across as a bit odd to those that live there.

I cringe when I read stories set in Australia written by someone who obviously has never lived here, and hasn't done enough homework.

My favorite dead giveaway is when an American writes a story set almost anywhere else and uses an imperial system measurement or states the temperature at 75 degrees. It doesn’t bother me or anything, personally. It’s just one of those things that I’ll notice.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I wrote a story that's primarily set in Ireland. I've never been there. It won second place in a contest and is in the I/T HoF.

It takes far more homework, but the homework is interesting. I got enough details right that people forgave the details I got wrong.

Fair enough. I guess you enjoy the research as part of your writing process - it would be far too much bother for me. Good luck with it .

 

[KeithD]

My favorite dead giveaway is when an American writes a story set almost anywhere else and uses an imperial system measurement or states the temperature at 75 degrees. It doesn’t bother me or anything, personally. It’s just one of those things that I’ll notice.

As long as they are consistent, such references can be set to the audience, not the setting. If a story is set in Germany, you wouldn't write it in German if your audience is composed of English speakers. Same/same.

 

[ElectricBlue]

My favorite dead giveaway is when an American writes a story set almost anywhere else and uses an imperial system measurement or states the temperature at 75 degrees. It doesn’t bother me or anything, personally. It’s just one of those things that I’ll notice.

The funniest one I read (well, had it read out to me) was the (definitely not Australian) writer who had someone driving five hundred miles to their ranch west of Perth. Good luck with that!

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I am, sort of; I was actually born in Hawaii, in Waipahu, but we moved to Fort Wayne when my father divorced my mom when I was born. Mom grew up an army brat, mostly in Fort Wayne, so she took us to the place she had the best memories of. Her family is mostly in Louisiana, and I spent a large part of my life growing up shuttling between my home in Fort Wayne and my uncles and aunties in Houma, Louisiana. My husband's from England, and when this ridiculous 'Brexit' business reared it's head, he decided it was to risky for me to remain there; lot of anti-foreigner feeling, especially in rural Oxfordshire where we lived, whipped up by the EDL, BNP, and the National Front, far right white supremacist organizations; people we'd known for years insulted me to my face, vandalized my car, refused to serve me in stores, that kind of thing, so I was offered this job in Cannes, in the South of France, I took it, and we've been here ever since.

I believe it. I also find it funny these are the mother fuckers(Not you Ogg) who made history on "anexing" most of the world, don't want the world there. Herbs&spices, textiles, land, sunlight, any reason to go somewhere and not leave or not for decades, has the gall to say no foriegners. Same for the United States in some ways.... "no mexicans in texas", the fuck you think it used to be?

 

[KeithD]

The funniest one I read (well, had it read out to me) was the (definitely not Australian) writer who had someone driving five hundred miles to their ranch west of Perth. Good luck with that!

I don't think that's the same issue that Payne_Hall was posting too. Isn't that an issue of fact rather than of custom of presentation? (e.g., miles vs. kilometers)

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I so get this; when I wanted to buy a replacement Blu Ray DVD player the sales guy had no idea what 'DVD' meant, I called Will, got his word on it, and had to ask for 'lecteur à disque vidéo numérique Blu ray haute définitition - by the time I got all that out while he grinned superciliously at my pronunciation I'd gone off the idea completely, got on my phone, and bought one from Amazon instead. Now at least i know why some French prefer the English shorthand version of names and phrases, you haven't gone insane by the time you get to the end of constructing the description.

That's what happens when a language has too strict a structure. I guess that's why japan has like three different language sets, one being for japanizing the american language. Sure what happens in american english can be annoying, though not as bad as that, imagine walking in to a store and asking for a Digital Video Disc Player. At least "Blu Ray was in there and not azure lazer. That looks like(and my french or lack of, is sophmore high school); laser disc video numbered blu ray type definition. Also I think all Blu Ray players play dvds.

 

[Payne_Hall]

The funniest one I read (well, had it read out to me) was the (definitely not Australian) writer who had someone driving five hundred miles to their ranch west of Perth. Good luck with that!

Oh, that is just beautiful. All it would have taken is one map search, too haha!

As long as they are consistent, such references can be set to the audience, not the setting. If a story is set in Germany, you wouldn't write it in German if your audience is composed of English speakers. Same/same.

This is true. I suppose it would be better to say that it stands out whenever those things are mentioned when, say, an Australian is the first person perspective or if it’s in something like a speech. An Aussie weatherman isn’t going to use Fahrenheit, for instance. You could just as easily bring up another speech difference, like saying Macca’s. Those are just the ones that end up catching my attention first, is all I meant .

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Lack of motivation. She did very well on her GCSE's and could have gone to the sixth form school of her choice. She wanted to continue in Music and was told that the demand for Music places is very strong and the supply very limited, and that she wasn't good enough to get one of those places. She's a singer and plays no instruments. So she quit. From that point on, she did the minimum to get by. She spent her days doing as little as possible.

Then when she's twenty, she decides it's time to make something of her life. She decides to get back on track to go to University. Music would be nice, but it wouldn't have to be Music.

I think after all that in this lil off topic convo, with gcse's and neets, after a few months in somebodies trailer(caravan), she said fuck it, hoped on the next thing steaming, went to america to dance at a strip club and suck dick on the BangBus. Because even if she doesn't make it; the impoverished life of a high school drop out with possible chance of getting a ged, sounds much easier to live over here.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

My favorite dead giveaway is when an American writes a story set almost anywhere else and uses an imperial system measurement or states the temperature at 75 degrees. It doesn’t bother me or anything, personally. It’s just one of those things that I’ll notice.

I've read the vice versa on here. Some brit writing about an American based story.

She was perfect for him, nice tits, wieghed xx stones, plump arse, and she loved when he'd punch it in his Corvette, exceeding 200 kilometers an hour on the California coast, taking the long way back to his lavish flat. If anything I get aaugh out of it, at worst; a slight bob of the head "huh" moment.

 

[SimonDoom]

The funniest one I read (well, had it read out to me) was the (definitely not Australian) writer who had someone driving five hundred miles to their ranch west of Perth. Good luck with that!

Low tide?