Questions about personal security options?

[dollface007]

Hi Sheath,
I'm sorry you feel you have to carry a weapon to you protect yourself. It makes me very angry that women have to do this to survive in the United States. Anyways.....
When i was in college, I took a class with a very famous criminologist. Here was his advice on self defense and home protection:
-Keep in mind that any weapon (gun, stun gun, pepper spray) can be just as easily grabbed by your attacker and used against you as it is for you to use them against an attacker
-Common sense and gut instinct are your best weapons
-The likelihood of your kids shooting themselves with a gun in the home is much much greater than you using the gun against an intruder. This is a statistical fact.
-Your home does not need an fancy alarm system or an attack dog (even though it may make you feel better to have these things). All you need are timers on your lights and tv/radio, clear the shrubs from around your house so that all doors and windows are visible from the street, and get one of those little yappy noisy dogs The basic idea is to make an intruder believe that people are awake in the house, not giving the intruder any cover around your house, and to let the intruder know that coming near the house will wake up the entire neighborhood.

There are multi-billion dollar industries that make money by selling fear. I think that if you don't feel confident in defending yourself, a martial arts or self defense class at the Y is a good idea.
I hope this helps!

 

[sheath]

Yes, dollface, it does help. Thank you.

One thing is certain from all these posts...taking a good self-defense class is going to be on the top of my list.



S.

 

[Missingmeds]

There is nothing like it Sheath. It also helps with the self confidence in most women. Knowing that we can and will take care of ourselves and don't have to depend on someone else to do it is very self empowering.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Haven't read the whole thread, so hope I don't repeat anything. Weapons can be dangerous, not to mention obvious from the moment you pull them out. I was advised by police many moons ago, that the less obvious and dangerous, but effective were those things which were not conventional weapons, or likely to be illegal. One was carrying a vial or container of actual pepper, which you could throw in their eyes and nose. Another one was perfume in a spray bottle and aiming for the eyes and nose once again. ANd then keys have been an old stand by for years, used in the right way to deliver enough pain to give you escape time.

Catalina

 

[SensualCealy]

Sheath,

If you cant get into a self defence class right away try the Ym or Ywca programs, ours has Judo which is free within the membership. Both my kids took it because they HAD to. No one is safe anymore, and as they typically say young girls or even girls that look like young women are targets.

My ten yr old daughter can drop her 300lb father on his ass with little effort knowing where a persons center of gravity is and how to use it to her advantage.

If anything taking the Judo will increase your confidence in knowing what you can do and what you are willing to do to protect yourself with no harm to anyone but the attacker.

I too walk with my keys between my fingers if leaving the mall later at night or walking home after meetings, and I dont walk quietly, sing, whistle, what ever, not to bring attention to you, but to let people know you are around so attackers will stay away.

It also helps to know closing times of stores etc along your path. My kids know what time the stores or companies close at after school or open before school so if they feel threatened they can dart into one of these places and ask them to call the police. They walk down town two blocks and usually feel safer then I do thinking of them.

Best of luck Sheath, may the force be with you! lol sorry it just came to me! lol
Cealy

 

[quickfoot]

Originally posted by

-The likelihood of your kids shooting themselves with a gun in the home is much much greater than you using the gun against an intruder. This is a statistical fact. [/B]

This is actually incorrect and misinformation, a gun in your house is roughly several thousand times more likely to save someone in your family than having a firearm accident.

I researched this topic pretty seriously a few years ago to better debate this topic with others.

Here is a pretty good list of stories of pepole saved by firearms.

http://www.packing.org has information for each state's CCW program.

The media naturally highlights on what they percieve as news and blow it out of porportion (anyone remember all the stories on shark attacks a few years ago, the number of shark attacks was not inconsistent with a normal year, there was just no other news).

The truth is if you are a safe gun owner you and your family are much more likely to be saved by your gun than harmed.

Here are some interesting facts (as of 2002):

Fact: Firearms in private hands are used 2.5 million times each year to prevent crime, or 6,849
times every day, including rapes, aggravated assaults, and kidnapping. The number of
innocent children protected by firearm owning parents far outweighs the number hurt by guns.

Fact: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 every day.157 Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Fact: 92.7% of law enforcement officials believe that citizens should be able to purchase
firearms for self-defense and sporting purposes.

Fact: The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect
individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department, 444 A.2d 1
(D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `[C]ourts have without exception concluded that when a
municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty
only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.'

Fact: 95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect.

Fact: In over 90% of U.S. cities, technology does not give police dispatchers the location of a
cellular telephone caller243, making police protection less likely for travelers.

Fact: 75% of protective/restraining orders are violated and police often won't enforce them
unless they witness the violation.

Fact: The Federal government estimated that there were over 65 million gun owners in the U.S.,
and more than 50% were handgun owners.268 This number is generally considered low due to the
reluctance of many to admit to a government agency that they own a gun. Other estimates
indicate that 41% of U.S. households are gun-owning households.

Fact: It seems to be
slowing down property
crime (especially
burglaries). The chart
shows the handgun
supply in America
(mainly in civilian
hands) to the property
crime rate.158

Fact: Every day, 550
rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing a gun. In
less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually fired.159

Fact: 60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew
the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes
when they thought the victim might be armed.

Fact: 90% of all violent crimes in the U.S. do not involve firearms of any type.

Fact: Less than 1% of firearms will ever be used in the commission of a crime.

Fact: Two-thirds of the people who die each year from gunfire are criminals being shot by other
criminals.

Fact: Felons report that they avoid entering houses where people are at home because they fear
being shot

Fact: About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens
kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are less than
1 in 26,000.113 And that is with citizens using guns to prevent crimes almost 2,500,000 times
every year.

Fact: In states without “right to carry” laws, there have been 15 school shootings. In states that
allow citizens to carry guns, there has been only one.

Fact: Children are 12 times more likely to die in an automobile accident than from gun-related
homicides or legal interventions (being shot by a cop, for example) if they are age 0-14. For the
group 0-24 years old (which bends the definition of ‘child’ quite a bit), the rate is still 8.6 times
higher for cars.

Fact: Schoolyard shooting deaths are not rising. In fact, they have been falling though most of
the 1990s:65

Fact: Indeed, nonfirearm
related
homicides for kids
out-rank gun related
homicides by kids
almost 5-to-160

Fact: Fire kills more children (1.6%) than firearms (1.5%) every year.

Fact: According to The Center for Disesage Control 81.9% of children are killed by Pathalogical disesae.

Motor vehicle 6.2%
Drowning 2.6%
Suffocations 2.3%
Other 2.0%
Fire/hot substances 1.6%
Firearms 1.5%
Transportation (non-motor) 0.7%
Poisoning 0.3%
Fall 0.3%
Struck by 0.2%
Natural/environmental 0.2%
Cut/pierce 0.1%
Pathological disease 81.9%

Fact: Less than 1% of all gun homicides involve innocent bystanders.

Fact: The rate of gun accidents is so low the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission doesn't
even mention them in their annual safety reports.

Fact: In 1993, there were 1,334 drownings and 528 firearm-related accidental deaths from ages
0-19. Firearms outnumber pools by a factor of over 30:1. Thus, the risk of drowning in a pool is
nearly 100 times higher than from a firearm-related accident for everyone, and nearly 500 times
for ages 0-5.109

Fact: Medical mistakes kill 400,000 people per year – about one fully loaded jumbo jet crash per
day – or about 286 times the rate of all accidental firearm deaths.110 This translates into 1 in 6
doctors causing an accidental death, and 1 in 56,666 gun owners doing the same.

Fact: In 1976,
Washington, D.C.
enacted one of the most
restrictive gun control
laws in the nation. Since
then, the city's murder
rate has risen 134
percent while the
national murder rate has
dropped 2 percent.117

Fact: Among the 15 states with the highest homicide rates, 10 have restrictive or very restrictive
gun laws.118

Fact: Maryland claims to have the toughest gun control laws in the nation and ranks #1 in
robberies and #3 in both violent crime and murder.119

Fact: 20% of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just six percent of the population – New
York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C. – and each has a virtual prohibition on private
handguns.

Fact: Washington D.C., has banned gun ownership and has a per capita murder rate of 56.9.
Across the river in Arlington, Virginia, gun ownership is not regulated, and the murder rate is a
mere 1.6 per capita.

Fact: Since gun
banning has
escalated in the
UK, the rate of
crime – especially
violent crime –
has risen.

Fact: In the UK street
robberies soared
28% in 2001.
Violent crime is
up 11%, murders
up 4%, and rapes
are up 14%.

Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years after a
virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were
recorded in 1999-2000, including the 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561
robberies and 204 burglary

Fact: Americans believe parents and
popular culture are more responsible for violence in America than firearms

And finally

Fact: Firearm homicide rate flucuates but is on a decreasing trend.

Year FirearmHomicide Rate
1988 6.78
1989 7.89
1990 8.92
1991 8.77
1992 9.57
1993 9.73
1994 9.07
1995 9.14
1996 8.62
1997 8.19
1998 7.58

These statistics are from Federal, State and Local government agencies.

I will also address the dog and home alarm system, their biggest benefit is alerting the home owner that something is going on and allowing them to respond.

I agree lights on timers will deter crime however they will do nothing to alert you that a crime is occuring in your house once it begins. Dogs are very good for this because they are able to distinguish between normal noises and things that are not normal.

 

[sheath]

I just wanted to post and let you guys know I have been paying attention. I'm going through enough links to keep me researching for days...I already feel more secure. Knowledge is power...I firmly believe that.

I have checked into self-defense classes, and I will be taking one very soon.

For what it's worth, Vixenshe's "SING" ran through one of my dreams last night, believe it or not...

Thanks, all of you. You are being very, very helpful.

S.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Another good thing to do is read Gavin De Becker's book, 'The Gift Of Fear'. Is good for getting you in touch with using your own knowledge and instincts to protect yourself.

Catalina

 

[Limbhugger]

I sent you pm but the most effective weapon you have is between your shoulders.

Be alert and aware and take your protection seriously. Don't get into an elevator with a lone man. Don't pull your car right up onto the back bumper of the one in front of you at a stop light. Keep your doors locked all the time. Get your keys out before you go outside. And so on. There is a lot folks can do to avoid the situations before they get into them.

LH

 

[ahooohgah]

Good for you, sheath! It's always up to us to defend ourselves, but most folks just want to pretend it will never happen. Better to be prepared.

This is where I buy my pepper spray. Very informative website and catalog. Good luck to you, and here's hoping you never have reason to use any self-defense tactics.

 

[Hotred911]

Just wanted to thank quickfoot for that info. You've really done your research.

 

[dollface007]

This is actually incorrect and misinformation, a gun in your house when properly secured with an adult that has received firearms training is several thousand times more likely to save someone in your family than having a firearm accident.

Holy Christ, i do not want to get into this debate, but i'll bite.

My statement was made on national statistics. Your statement is based on a conditional. Now, i can guess which category (gun owner who throws a gun in a drawer vs. gun owner with safety training and properly secured gun) our lovely Sheath would fall into. That is why i didn't just tell her NOT to buy a gun. In fact, i was just relaying what was told to me by an expert who has been offered hundreds of thousands of dollars by security companies to endorse their products (and turned them down, btw). I feel that she should do what she needs to do to feel safe, but she should also be informed on alternatives and dangers to conventional security measures.

 

[Limbhugger]

I saw this debate coming and refuse to get into it but i'll poke a toe in slightly...You're more likely to be killed by your doctor than a firearm. And quickfoot is correct that firearms save many thousands more lives than they take. The Bureau of Justice Statistics (last time I checked) shows only about 7% of convicted criminals had a gun their possession at the time of the crime and only about 10% of them actually pulled the firearm. I believe the stat is less than 1% actually fired the weapon.

Gun control groups use misleading and grossly exaggerated numbers to justify their anti-self defense agenda.

An armed society is a polite society. I find it absurd that one of the most targeted groups of violent crime can't even own a handgun. That being 16-20 year old females. That is insane.

If guns kill people, cars cause accidents, pencils misspell words, and spoons made rosie o'donnell fat.

 

[quickfoot]

Holy Christ, i do not want to get into this debate, but i'll bite.

My statement was made on national statistics. Your statement is based on a conditional. Now, i can guess which category (gun owner who throws a gun in a drawer vs. gun owner with safety training and properly secured gun) our lovely Sheath would fall into. That is why i didn't just tell her NOT to buy a gun. In fact, i was just relaying what was told to me by an expert who has been offered hundreds of thousands of dollars by security companies to endorse their products (and turned them down, btw). I feel that she should do what she needs to do to feel safe, but she should also be informed on alternatives and dangers to conventional security measures.

My statement did include a conditional however the statistics are overall national statistics over the entire population and are not specific to safe gun owners. I apologize if the introduction of the conditional obscured the reality of the statistics.

These statistics statistics refute the claim that a gun is more likely to be used by children than in the aid of the gun owner.

Anyone can qualify in an expert in a multitude of areas. As our legal system has proven time and time again, you can find an expert to testify to anything you want if you look long enough.

I respect a person who has the integrity not to blindly endorse products but this does not add truth to another opinion the expert holds.

I don't believe that everyone should own a gun, and I believe in the individual right to have an opinion on gun control and to advocate that opinion, however I also will refute false claims about gun safety that confuse people about the reality of gun ownership.

As the statistics show there are many other areas that result in far more preventable deaths among our youth that our attention should be directed to.

Furthermore martial arts and pepper spray are great, however they will not stop a determined attacker.

These statistics are collected from many qualified and official sources available to the American people and is not the opinion of one person.

It is admirable to want to make sure she has information on security alternatives and is always a good idea to do research on these types of things.

 

[sunfox]

All I'll say on the gun issue is that any chance, no matter how tiny, of a gun in our house being found by my child is too much of a chance. I will not have a gun in my house. Period.

I agree with those who suggested the defense courses, and the pepper sprays.. those are both good ideas. Excellent ideas.

I have three dogs, and as a trainer, my protection trained german shepherd goes nearly everywhere with me. When he hears something odd, he barks a few times, then goes quiet. If someone is willing to brave the dog to get into the house, he's going to hit them the minute they open the door or stick a body part through the window. He would give his life for us, and that's enough for me.

Even a small dog's barking is a deterrent, and as was mentioned, dogs are excellent at informing you when something is not right in or around your house.

 

[incognito989]

Even a small dog's barking is a deterrent, and as was mentioned, dogs are excellent at informing you when something is not right in or around your house.

Bah, if someone were to break in my dog would show them the dvd player, laptop, et al.. Big wuss.

But...

All I'll say on the gun issue is that any chance, no matter how tiny, of a gun in our house being found by my child is too much of a chance. I will not have a gun in my house. Period.

And that's fair. But I think it's being looked at in the wrong way.

A gun should never be 'found' by a child. It should be known to them. When they're young, it's similar to how you teach them about the stove. Keep it out of their access, (pot handles in, gun locked away and bolted to the floor) and tell them of the danger. Keep it locked, secured, and when they're old enough, teach them the proper responsibility of handling any weapon.

It's not something you slip under the mattress

But it all boils down to what you're comfortable with.

 

[cyberangel69]

*yawns* since it's so late at night I haven't finished reading all the posts but I do have a suggestion...hope it hasn't already been mentioned

I would suggest taking a martial arts class or a rape deffense class.

The martial arts would be a great thing to do with your kids. I know the place where i do tae kwon do offers family classes. It brings the family together and will teach your kids self defense.

Even though I don't carry a weapon I feel a little better walking alone at night because I know I can kick the crap out of an attacker (hopefully), they also teach you how to get out of holds...such as if someone tries to choke you or grabs your arms or wrists.

 

[car nut]

edited.....

 

[sunfox]

Bah, if someone were to break in my dog would show them the dvd player, laptop, et al.. Big wuss.

But...

I freely admit it.. I'm a dog snob. I only keep breeds that are one-personish. My SO's dog, on the other hand, would help you carry everything out... unless you touched the door to the baby's room.



And that's fair. But I think it's being looked at in the wrong way.

A gun should never be 'found' by a child. It should be known to them. When they're young, it's similar to how you teach them about the stove. Keep it out of their access, (pot handles in, gun locked away and bolted to the floor) and tell them of the danger. Keep it locked, secured, and when they're old enough, teach them the proper responsibility of handling any weapon.

It's not something you slip under the mattress

But it all boils down to what you're comfortable with.

I agree, for people who want to teach their children to shoot. I refuse to touch a gun, and for several years after losing three friends to gunshot wounds, one self-inflicted, two murders... I couldn't even look at guns or hear a gun without having a panic attack.

I love my child too much to take a chance with her.. when she's a teenager, with all the angst that entails, having a gun in the house is too much temptation. I just can't see any reason to have one that is worth the risk to her.

Like you said.. what you're comfortable with.

 

[sheath]

Thank you so much for all the advice...and even just as much so, perhaps, for the debate that actually IS a debate, not a sling-fest. It heartens me to see that here, especially over such a hot-button issue.

I will definitely be taking a self-defense class, and likely carrying pepper spray. Keeping a gun in the house, or carrying one, is still questionable...I'm not sure of my comfort level there yet.

I have considered getting a dog. In fact, I likely will. I have had very good experience with them in the past, especially one particular mixed-breed who decided he would be my own personal bodyguard. I had that dog for years.

Though I also DID have one who would not only show you the DVD player, but would bark encouragement while you unhooked the damn thing and then probably open the door to let you out!

S.

 

[Hotred911]

The thought of suggesting a dog never crossed my mind. I have no idea why not, but it didn't.

We have a pit/german shepard mix that we've had since she was a baby. She'll be a year next month. And although she still has accidents in the house on occasion and chews up things every once in a while, I wouldn't give her up. She's got a ferocious bark, and isn't afraid to use it. There's been more than one time she's woke me up barking out the front window, only for me to get up and see that no one is there. But I see that as a good thing, maybe she scared someone off. And she's always the first at the door. She's very protective of our kids, even when we're playing she's right there to make sure we're not hurting them.

So yeah, I would agree with getting a dog.

 

[Limbhugger]

Thank you so much for all the advice...and even just as much so, perhaps, for the debate that actually IS a debate, not a sling-fest. It heartens me to see that here, especially over such a hot-button issue.

S.

You're so cool. I have to admit I was gun-shy about this topic. It is cool to see everyone being so civil and working towards providing you solid advice.


Good luck and whatever you decide I hope you never have to use any of it.


LH

 

[quickfoot]

My personal favorite type of dog is actually a hybrid, 50% wolf and 50% German Shepherd. Unfortunately my grandmother as so attached she has held onto my hybrid

I also love normal German Shepherds and have 2 now.

They make excellent protecting dogs and have a very good reputation as protective dogs as well.

 

[janissary]

For home protection I'd also recommend a shotgun. A pump action shotgun can be easily loaded and just that distinctive sound made when chambering a round can give you a bit of pyshological advantage. Whatever type of weapon you get, you've got to practice and train with it. I think so many people see guns being used in movies and television that they assume they can just automatically know how to use and safely handle one. Lots of people don't realize the penetrating power or range of rifles and pistols.

As far as guns in the home go, I grew up with all sorts of guns in the house. The guns were not really hidden and definetly not locked up, but I was taught pretty early and very strictly about safety. My cousins and I were often taken along by our dads when they went hunting. I think those experiences more than anything else really taught me about guns.

Here in Illinois, concealed carry laws will probably never happen. Too many people want more restrictions not less on guns in this state, I wish it were not so. Even so if someone really felt they might be in danger its like someone already said, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

 

[Nightbird]

You know there are a lot of really great ideas here.
I'm probably repeating something that has already been said but one of the best ways to ensure you are safe is avoidance and common sense.
You can keep yourself from getting into a lot of trouble by using your head.
An example of this that comes to mind, I used to work Security and I wore a very visible uniform. One evening I was walking someone to a bank so they could make their nightly deposit when I noticed two women who decided to walk really close to me. Why? Because on the other side of the street was a couple of guys who had obviously had a little too much alcohol. Those women used their heads and avoided a potentially dangerous situation.