Question - Why 18 year olds?

[AwkwardlySet]

Huh? We're discussing 18-year-olds here, not 6-year-olds. This is the stage when they are farthest from innocence and most prone to trouble. It's not a mere coincidence that they are recruited into the army during this period. Lack of experience doesn't imply lack of corruption. The limited grasp of human nature exhibited by many of the writers here is... hardly surprising. Perhaps they should stick to Sci-Fi.

It is as if you are trying hard to misunderstand the point. We are talking about 18yolds because that is the minimum age of the characters we can include in our stories that by default contain some kind of explicit sexual content - with some rare exceptions, of course. I said what I said because I like starting with an uncorrupted and innocent character. I completely agree that 18yolds can be corrupted and manipulative and even well-versed in the ways of our world. I had the displeasure to teach some of them, after all. But it is much more believable and natural, if I want to start my story with a relatively innocent character, to make that character 18 rather than 40. There are 18yolds who still hold on to much of their innocence, especially if you make them farm boys and girls who never interacted much with the rest of the world. 40yold innocents? I suppose they might exist, but I doubt many readers would find the character believable.

 

[Voboy]

True, true. But most of them happen alongside other young and stupid folk. Mine certainly did.

But not all. And they make very, very readable stories. So readable that they might be disproportionately represented here.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Oh ya stroppy cow
Nah.. I'd say there's a recoil reflex which isn't altogether a bad thing. As I'm sure and others would do 'approach the topic with caution'

I’m gonna agree to this… it’s appearing most of the older gentlemen here don’t find the subject of young spry eighteen year old’s appealing because it’s touching on underaged/immature mentalities? Which is commendable. I honestly am not going to argue with any forty+ year old who does not find sexual appeal in barely legal teens.

I can agree with Emily that young does not equate lackluster character or immaturity by default. I was paying my household’s bills at eighteen, I had my head on securely. I was never interested in casual sex… I’m sure watching the dumpster fire relationships of my close friends had something to do with it. I’ve always gotten compliments on my mental maturity.

Alternately, my brother is twenty six, and acts as if he were still in high-school… everything from the way he dresses to his party-going ways and need for social validation. He’s the youngest in my family. I’ll assume it’ll be another ten years before he’s out of that “immature” mind frame.

I’m sure it really does depend on the eighteen year old character. Some people like the young and naive angle. Some people enjoy the hot misguided youth angle. I’m sure some would even enjoy the “mature beyond their years” angle… I’m really not here to judge that. But this topic is surely intriguing since I’ve got a work in progress that fits the bill.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The only reason we're talking about age 18 is because that's the restriction of the site. If it weren't for this restriction, you would see the ages drop sharply.

Definitely. The limit is there for practical reasons mostly. Personally, I find many non-con stories much more disturbing than writing about 16 or 17yolds kissing, holding hands, or even getting a hard-on while fantasizing about their teacher. Our sexual development didn't start at 18, after all. But again, it is a slippery slope, so 18 as a limit is a very reasonable thing.

 

[Djmac1031]

I'm a man in my 50s.

Several of my stories have featured an older man with a younger woman.

My most popular is my Jenna series. She was 19 going on 20 when it started. He is in his 50s as well.

It's just a story. I have no illusions in real life about meeting or hooking up with 18, 19 year old women.

Do I still find them attractive at that age? Sure, I won't lie about that.

But I also know they're not really interested in me. At a certain age we become invisible to that generation.

But there's nothing wrong with a harmless fantasy, in my opinion.

Fantasy and reality are two different things.

And i think most people understand that.

 

[RejectReality]

Most people think that characters beyond their late 30s won't "sell" and the optimal engagement for May/Dec stories is a 10-15 year gap. When you do that math and factor in the content rule, you end up with 18 a lot of the time.

That's one element of it for certain. The other is the experienced person with the virgin. ( or near ) It's a strong sell, and lends itself to the minimum allowed age.

There are a lot of big engagement generators that favor the younger party being 18 or 19, and so authors naturally gravitate toward that engagement. Supply and demand.

I personally prefer college age/just out so the younger one has some skills to work with in the sex scenes.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well we got here in the end - pedo. I assume we can talk about its illegality without getting banned?

There are people who've never experienced it and for whom it may be a kink / fantasy and then are others for whom it is closer to home and understand the life-changing harm it creates. It's never a little bit pedo, like there's never slightly raped - the impact on the individual is the same. Allowing any -18 erotic stories, even if none were written and published at Lit, sends a message that 'it can't be that bad'. It normalises a crime.

Nonsense. I cannot state how strongly I disagree with this view. This is kink-shaming, pure and simple, and it's evidence-free. You have no basis at all to say that people indulging their fantasies in fiction "normalizes" anything. It doesn't do so any more than Friday the 13th and Halloween movies "normalize" murder. They don't. This belief is not based on anything real.

 

[Djmac1031]

I'm not gonna pretend to speak for all men. That said, I'm sure many may agree with me.

The older I get, the more the realization hits home that I'll never be able to go back to the glory days of youth.

It can be a harsh realization, even a depressing one sometimes.

Fantasy stories give us a way to relive our youth. Or experience things we never did in our real lives.

So yes, I've written several older guys / younger women stories.

It doesn't mean I'm only fixated on young women.

Nor does it in any way imply I'd write the women younger if it were allowed.

I've tried my best to give ALL my female characters, including the younger ones, personalities, feelings and emotions, and an actual reason for being there other than being a mere sex object for the male gaze.

Whether I succeed at that is up to the reader, I suppose.

I don't write stories where the guy takes advantage of a younger woman, and consent has always played an important role.

But if I wanna write a story about a better looking, more confident version of myself getting involved with a younger woman who finds "me" attractive and interesting, I see absolutely no harm in that as a fantasy.

I know it's not reality. The only way it becomes harmful is if I let it cloud my judgment on how I treat women of any age in real life.

 

[Euphony]

Nonsense. I cannot state how strongly I disagree with this view. This is kink-shaming, pure and simple, and it's evidence-free. You have no basis at all to say that people indulging their fantasies in fiction "normalizes" anything. It doesn't do so any more than Friday the 13th and Halloween movies "normalize" murder. They don't. This belief is not based on anything real.

I am consistently surprised by the fact so many authors here equate fantasy as reality denied/delayed all of the time.

Life is suffering, this world is often an uncaring disaster, and writing offers a way of working through existential mire to better understand, compartmentalize, accept, any number of psychologically beneficial outcomes.

Video games didn't lead to a generation of violence. Same sex marriage didn't lead to the destruction of the institution. Women entering the workforce, accessing divorce, enfranchised, all were claimed to surely rip apart the fabric of society. I'd say all proven false.

Our exposure to sex (porn ubiquity), violence (mainstream tv, every podcast top 10 list), and "divergent" behavior portrayed in media (unique sells) has never been higher yet, despite what 24 hour news cycles NEED to sell you on to keep engagement through the ocean of hours they now need to cover, we are living in some of the safest times ever.

Understanding the complexity of human sexuality (and expression) is beyond this space. But on a basic level, the snap judgements on fantasy baffle me when so many other snap judgements of the past were proven as nothing more than a small, vocal group needing their beliefs validated by imposing them on society as a whole.

The human mind is a testing machine, not an infallible oracle. Do these people really not have dark thoughts in other areas of life? Why don't they turn themselves in as sure soon-to-be murders?

 

[SeraphNocturne]

I think the worry herein lies with the individuals who don’t understand the young character fantasy is only fiction/fantasy. But that could be found and debated with just about any topic or category. It is not our jobs as authors to police the mind frames of the readers… that’s what we have rules and Laurel/Manu for.

I haven’t personally seen that state of mind in anything I’ve read on Literotica, and I pray I never do, but I don’t doubt there are people who place barely-legal characters into stories to perpetuate fantasizing about younger individuals… which is a whole different (very gross) topic...

I believe with any “controversial” erotica topic there is always a fear of appealing to the wrong demographic/audience… in this case, I can understand why the barely legal topic inspires squick from some. Still, I see no reason to condemn the use of young, legal characters on the whole, simply on the hypothetical basis that some unhinged individual(s) might be channeling or deriving “pedo” energy into the story.

I personally might arch a brow at any character who is written as eighteen yet have physical characteristics of someone younger, though, because that would be obviously suspect. I personally won’t write characters without making it expressively known they’re physically and mentally mature enough to be featured in erotica.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I think a lot of potential authors think back to when they were younger and what their fantasy would have been. And in their late teens they felt like an older (but not that much older!) mentor-type partner would have been amazing, though in practice they were probably too scared to take advantage of such an opportunity even if it arose. If it had arisen, then there's even more impetus to write about What Might Have Happened.

 

[Djmac1031]

One of my earliest stories here was Discovering Amy. Which eventually became four short stories.

Amy was 18. Her lifelong male friend turned love interest, 19.

In those stories, they both start exploring sex. Their first time.

Now we all know in reality many start exploring these things earlier than 18.

The rules here do not allow for that, of course.

My purpose in writing those stories was to revisit MY youth. It's not a TRUE story but there are pieces of it that are.

But I certainly had no intentions of passing it off as an *wink wink nod nod they're 18 only because I have to make them 18* story, either.

That said, if someone reads it and thinks about their past when they may have done these things before 18, I see no harm in that.

And if they're imagining the female character as younger than 18, i can't stop them from doing so.

But I certainly didn't write it to try and inspire THAT line of thought, either.

Youth as a sexual fantasy is one thing, borderline underage stories another entirely.

But I do not believe that a story featuring younger characters automatically implies the author is intentionally trying to inspire improper thoughts about underage sex.

We can't help what a reader may interpret it as.

 

[Euphony]

Contentious topics well addressed, I'll circle back to the nuts and bolt-y whys:

Yes, much has been well covered. I'm adding my own seasoning blend. And my train of thought issues require some retreading covered ground.

Perceived benefits of using the 18 yo yutes :

Physical - Males +physicality (supposedly to unlock +sexual prowess but boy do authors love conflating push-ups = orgasm ups)
- Females +beauty, agreeability, fertility (thanks societal falsehoods!)

Situational - A majority of 18 yos have the same responsibilities/commitments. It's an agreed upon understanding/shorthand. 26 yos are adults and have the wide range of possibilities/lives you need to address.
- Fun sidebar. I don't love the tropey 18 yo but need the situational support so... let's just say 20 yos community college enrollment has never been higher than under my regime!

Experiential - Kids these days (am I ?) are on sexual hyperdrive compared to even recent generations. Pushing the mentor/sexual teacher trope with even an early 20 something is a much tougher sell. Oftentimes I meet the challenge. Sometimes, some characters are themselves lazy (tho probably projections of my mood) and lean on the trope.

As I often find beneficial, I flip the script so let's think why a 26 yo might not work best.

Opportunity - Stated above. Life should have branched off into paths and options.

Responsibilities - Don't have to be heavy but do have to be addressed (unless their love interest is all about the physicality) More work.

Uniqueness - A 26 yo behaving in an "adulting" manner enough to break down a 40yo + (especially woman whose requirements are high) resistance is not as interesting of an outlier as a low 20 or even teen doing so. I like developing the reason why these outlier individuals are the way they are. It's one of the biggest motivating challenges in all of my works.

Admittedly, many authors here are low effort (which makes me want to write against that current) and I am guilty of the SAME low effort on more occasion than I'm willing to admit or even notice.

But it's good to keep it in mind. You get a little better each time out or at least you codify your process and the whys and why nots for the choices you make. (uninformed choice is a far greater sin than plying tropes to my mind)

 

[Voboy]

The OP posed a simple yet unsettling question: How is it that a category labeled "Mature - May / December lust & love affairs." contains such a significant number of 18-year-old characters? Almost all subsequent posts adopt an apologetic tone, saturated with arguments that sound more like excuses—which is even more unsettling.

One of those replies was

Looking back, even during high school, I found myself captivated by my teachers rather than the girls in my class.

...which probably provides a reasonable answer to what the OP was asking. No?

 

[Euphony]

The OP posed a simple yet unsettling question: How is it that a category labeled "Mature - May / December lust & love affairs." contains such a significant number of 18-year-old characters? Almost all subsequent posts adopt an apologetic tone, saturated with arguments that sound more like excuses—which is even more unsettling.

The OP's question reads more as curiosity/attempt to understand the spaces in which they inhabit and how others might differ from themselves rather than a morality judgement.

Little demonizing (which is easy to do given the subject) but more wondering why seemingly more suitable pairings aren't as often used.

I spoke to my understandings of that. To the space I have inhabited through my own interpretive understanding lens.

But neither I nor you can say definitively any motivations. We speak in hypotheticals driven from our own experiences being here.

Unless we need to...

to make a morality judgement.

 

[SeraphNocturne]

One of those replies was



...which probably provides a reasonable answer to what the OP was asking. No?

I was going to say the same thing. The copious amount of girls pining for the fit, greying gym teacher comes to mind. And I know more than a few male peers who had intense fantasies over teachers and probably would have leapt at the opportunity if given the chance.

I haven’t had enough experience reading through the category to have a detailed, informed opinion. I’m going to assume the eighteen year olds paired with mature men/women might just be a stereotypical trope of the category. Excessive occupation of such characters may simply be a result of what has come to be expected by readers of the category?

 

[Andrew1968]

An 18-year-old or 19-year-old male character, in an older woman/younger man story, is seeking initiation into the mysteries. It’s about being initiated into the “cult of the adults,” into the “mysteries of adult pleasure and love,” into the “erotic arts.” I mean that’s why I would include an 18 year or 19-year-old male character and match them up with a much older woman in a story - to describe a self-conscious young outsider’s journey into knowledge, maturity and rapture. You're being welcomed to walk the left-hand path in some form or other and that welcome is of the most delicious sort.

There has been some mention of an 18-year-olds lack of life experience and being “wet behind the ears.” Yes, indeed, absolutely, definitely, that’s how the character should be conveyed. The point of the story is how this young 18-year-old got the life experience and became “dry behind the ears.”

I believe there are women (and men) who are attracted to an inexperienced 18 or 19-year-olds precisely because they are inexperienced and desperately seeking initiation. If an 18-year-old is sincere and ardent, thoughtful and kind then a connection between someone older and someone much younger can take place.

 

[Euphony]

I haven’t had enough experience reading through the category to have a detailed, informed opinion. I’m going to assume the eighteen year olds paired with mature men/women might just be a stereotypical trope of the category. Excessive occupation of such characters may simply be a result of what has come to be expected by readers of the category?

What I find interesting is if some aren't ascribing some greater meaning to things when it's simply an ill (admittedly wrong) fitting puzzle piece got smashed into a spot b/c of laziness and it "sorta" working.

If a category is besieged by content that is either wide ranging or antithetical to the taglines stated, it speaks more to a categories problem than anything.

Most things here are remnants of "old internet" which was, at best, held together with duct tape and twine.

Empathizing with those who want true Mature content (partners of (assumed) maturity and over a certain age) I feel how that category isn't working for them.

"Mature" and "May-December" can be very far apart on the spectrum (even if somewhat close in the grand scheme of things here)

 

[Voboy]

No. My point was that, even when I was a teenager myself, I didn't find other teens particularly sexually attractive.
My focus was more on the teachers, while in your stories, it's the teachers who focus on the teens' sexuality.

Not particularly. In the stories I've written that fit this trope, the students are overwhelmingly the more active partners.

 

[Euphony]

I'm curious. are you wilfully taking what I said out of context, which was under age sex - I refer more than once to pedophiles or are you not quite the person I imagined? Do you call black people XXXXXXX because it's just a name and how can that lead to racism? What you do in your own head is up to you, pal, but don't fucking call me out on pedophilia.

Your response makes it clear you aren't in a receptive state but I will suggest your accusations and retaliations seem outsized compared to the response that engendered them.

So much so that I was dumbstruck as I know you to be one of the more measured, thoughtful, insightful posters on here (and have learned a ton from you b/c of it) so I read (and reread) the chain and I cannot see for the life of me how that merited/lead to this.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm curious. are you wilfully taking what I said out of context, which was under age sex - I refer more than once to pedophiles or are you not quite the person I imagined? Do you call black people XXXXXXX because it's just a name and how can that lead to racism? What you do in your own head is up to you, pal, but don't fucking call me out on pedophilia.

I'm calling you out on bringing up pedophilia, because the subject and content of this thread have nothing to do with it (since it is about characters 18 and up), but you by implication accuse people in this thread of going in that direction. It's a false accusation. If that's not what you mean, then explain what you mean.


There's a world of difference between calling people names in the real world--something I don't do, and the comparison with which by you is unwarranted and inappropriate--and writing stories that contain what may seem to you to be offensive material.

 

[Voboy]

Do 90% of your stories feature 18-year-old characters, as in that category?

*sigh*

"In the stories I've written that fit this trope." Meaning, teacher-student.

I'm not sure how many of those I've done. A dozen, perhaps? Plainly, those all include 18- or 19-year-olds. The others I've done in that category (maybe another dozen) merely feature an age disparity central to the plot. In almost all cases, the younger character is the more active.

My take on the thread topic is that it doesn't matter which party is pursuing which, however. The question merely involved the prevalence of 18-year-old characters. My explanation is that in many cases, they're set in schools. And yes, that's a popular trope across all sorts of pornographic outlets, I expect.

 

[JohnSm123]

Originally I thought the question would be why the age limit regarding stories on this forum is 18.

 

[AlinaX]

We really need to just kill this thread.

 

[Euphony]

We really need to just kill this thread.

Truth.

But it will still pop up in some other form, as it always has, does, will do.

The intervening peace will be lovely tho.