Question on Asian names

[Kumquatqueen]

The western world I'm familiar with considers Asia to be China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, VietNam , et al.

Though India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Philippines and others are technically Asia, they are thought to be South Asia, separated in geography and culture.

That's a very American viewpoint. In the UK, if someone is described as 'Asian' it generally means from the Indian subcontinent - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Though Asian food or languages could be anything from Lebanese to Japanese. 'South East Asian' is used to mean Hong Kong, Japan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea etc - and now Chinese visitors are common, 'East Asian' is becoming used because calling people from Mainland China Southeast Asian was kinda ridiculous.

^^ Never use the 'w' word. Might the most offensive of all and ruins one's credibility. People that use it are why the rest of us have to question how to say things.

I'm lost - what's the W word?

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

That's a very American viewpoint.

It's the only one I have.

I'm lost - what's the W word?

Not 'work' or 'which' or 'when'.

 

[Writer61]

That's a very American viewpoint. In the UK, if someone is described as 'Asian' it generally means from the Indian subcontinent - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh.

Yes.

'South East Asian' is used to mean Hong Kong, Japan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea etc - and now Chinese visitors are common, 'East Asian' is becoming used because calling people from Mainland China Southeast Asian was kinda ridiculous.

In my experience, along with China and Taiwan, HK, Korea, and Japan are described as 'North East Asia',

FWIW none are members of ASEAN, the Association of South-East Asian Nations.

I'm lost - what's the W word?

I think she means 'Woke'.

 

[FrancesScott]

^^ Never use the 'w' word. Might the most offensive of all and ruins one's credibility. People that use it are why the rest of us have to question how to say things.

The ‘w’ word used as a pejorative is the very definition of a shibboleth. The Tsítsho tribe I believe.

 

[Writer61]

Though India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Philippines and others are technically Asia, they are thought to be South Asia, separated in geography and culture.

Oh boy! I don't doubt that some people see it that way, but it is so wrong.

Obviously the geography of inner Mongolia is different from that of Indonesia, but the culture is much less clear cut. Around two millenia ago Han Chinese began to spread across the region taking their culture with them. Then you have the British using Indians as workers in their colonies. Throw in rich trade routes and you end up with a patchwork of overlapping cultures and ethnic mixes.

For example, Malaysia celebrates Muslim, Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist holy days.

 

[Actingup]

The western world I'm familiar with considers Asia to be China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, VietNam , et al.

Though India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Philippines and others are technically Asia, they are thought to be South Asia, separated in geography and culture.

That's a good example of how the meaning of terms varies. I'm an Australian, so when I say 'Asia' I first think of Indonesia (closest Asian country) and other parts of SE Asia, then Japan (because I've lived there), and then China westwards to Pakistan, eventually remembering that the Philippines counts as an Asian country even though it's half Oceania. When the Brits say 'Asia', they tend to mean India, Pakistan, and then the rest...

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

This puts not only Russia in Asia (which most people probably know, but don't really consider to be that way), but also Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Israel. To me those are Arabian or Middle Eastern/Mediterranean.

https://ontheworldmap.com/asia/

.

 

[calmlikeabomb]

As an Asian... Yeah, this isn't surprising at all.

To be fair, when we think America, we usually think New York, Hollywood, and sister fucking rednecks. It's hard to let go of comfortable stereotypes sometimes.

 

[Actingup]

This puts not only Russia in Asia (which most people probably know, but don't really consider to be that way), but also Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Israel. To me those are Arabian or Middle Eastern/Mediterranean.

https://ontheworldmap.com/asia/

.

Well, yes, because there is no continent called 'The Middle East'. Anyway, I think that @Writer61's point is probably more relevant here - it's more about the amazing mix of cultures and understanding them. Which is what you've been driving at anyway - what we mean by 'Asian' is just a sidebar.

Mmmm... I'm in the mood for some real Beef Rendang right now....

 

[Kumquatqueen]

This puts not only Russia in Asia (which most people probably know, but don't really consider to be that way), but also Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Israel. To me those are Arabian or Middle Eastern/Mediterranean.

https://ontheworldmap.com/asia/

.

Yeah, the Middle East being in Asia caught me out when I started doing Sporcle quizzes. Whereas we always used to think of Russia as being Asia until after 1990 - we used to have Europe and then Fake Europe on the other side of the Iron Curtain (Poland, Bulgaria etc) and the USSR was deemed Asia. Then we got Eastern Europe suddenly including these new countries like the Baltics and Moldova and even Armenia and Azerbaijan, and Poland and Bulgaria claiming they weren't Eastern Europe, they were Central Europe tvm, and Russia pushing the physical geographical definition of Europe, being up to the Urals.

Given 90% of Russians do live on the European side of the country, it kinda makes sense. Makes the USA's 'fly-over country's in between two coasts seem positively crowded!

 

[Writer61]

Though India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Philippines and others are technically Asia, they are thought to be South Asia, separated in geography and culture.

Whereas we always used to think of Russia as being Asia until after 1990 - we used to have Europe and then Fake Europe on the other side of the Iron Curtain (Poland, Bulgaria etc) and the USSR was deemed Asia.

It is so annoying when political boundaries don't align with geography let alone culture.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Sorry to detract from the geopolitical conversation but to quickly add some info in response to the OP’s question about naming convention — if the MC immigrated as a child to the US, there’s a very good chance that she adopted an Anglicized or a ‘Baptist’ name. For example, if she were an 80’s baby named Dongmei, she most certainly would not have introduced herself as Dongmei to her classmates. She’d probably introduce herself with a very generic sounding Western name… Dawn, Donna, Emma, May, or Demi if she wanted a name approximating her original. If her name was Donglei, she might’ve gone for Delilah.

Nowadays, I’ve noticed, Asian kids are encouraged to be proud of their original names, but at least in the 90s and before, name-changing was standard practice.

 

[jsmiam]

That's a very American viewpoint. …

The western world I'm familiar with considers Asia to be China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, VietNam , et al.

I’ll add a pet peeve of my own to this subtopic: It’s a “lazy journalist” excuse and easy way out.

Every “the rare and elusive (fill in the animal name) is endangered because it’s considered a (delicacy/aphrodisiac) in …” quote in any news story/article invariably ends with “Asia.”

Fill in the real country name? Never. They’d have to do homework. Too lazy. Even the ones trying to describe the plight of whatever furry little (or largest land dwelling) creature is being killed resorts to the “A” word, Asia.

They should name names. Asia is a big place!

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

They should name names. Asia is a big place!

I sorta did that with the thread title and then listing a Chinese example. I wasn't sure if it might expand to Korea and Japan examples as I had a couple of those in mind too.

Jang Yoon-ju

Moeko Fukuda

I found a couple from Taiwan and Hong Kong too.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

I would argue that the different tones mean that the pronounciation is different.

Not true. Tones are a distinct concept from pronunciation, similar to pitch accent in Japanese where identically pronounced phonemes can have different meanings depending on where you place the stress (e.g. "hashi"; HA-shi means "chopsticks", whereas ha-SHI means "bridge").

By the way, I speak both languages.

 

[Writer61]

Not true. Tones are a distinct concept from pronunciation, similar to pitch accent in Japanese where identically pronounced phonemes can have different meanings depending on where you place the stress (e.g. "hashi"; HA-shi means "chopsticks", whereas ha-SHI means "bridge").

By the way, I speak both languages.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Voboy]

Sorry to detract from the geopolitical conversation but to quickly add some info in response to the OP’s question about naming convention — if the MC immigrated as a child to the US, there’s a very good chance that she adopted an Anglicized or a ‘Baptist’ name. For example, if she were an 80’s baby named Dongmei, she most certainly would not have introduced herself as Dongmei to her classmates. She’d probably introduce herself with a very generic sounding Western name… Dawn, Donna, Emma, May, or Demi if she wanted a name approximating her original. If her name was Donglei, she might’ve gone for Delilah.

Nowadays, I’ve noticed, Asian kids are encouraged to be proud of their original names, but at least in the 90s and before, name-changing was standard practice.

This, I think, is definitely a marker of time and place.

I grew up in a heavily Koreanized part of Southern California, and it seemed as if every other Korean boy I knew (most were US-born of immigrant parents) was named David. I was in high school before one of them bothered explaining to me that his "Korean name" was Dae. He himself wasn't sure why his parents hadn't just called him Dae all his life.

 

[Writer61]

This, I think, is definitely a marker of time and place.

Perhaps one of our Asian commentators can confirm this, but isn't there (or wasn't there) a tendency to use given names only within families?

When I was working in China, many older men would use only their initials in the office, while others were always known by their family name alone.

 

[Voboy]

Perhaps one of our Asian commentators can confirm this, but isn't there (or wasn't there) a tendency to use given names only within families?

When I was working in China, many older men would use only their initials in the office, while others were always known by their family name alone.

In my experience, it owes a lot to US immigration patterns, geography, and a '90s-era rise in the acceptability of being culturally distinctive. The Korean houses I visited as a boy had parents desperate for their kids to be seen as "American." They felt a Korean name would be detrimental to their children. Those same children now have kids of their own, and much like my old buddy Dae/vid, they don't see it as a stigma to have a Korean given name.

From the limited standpoint of an '80s schoolkid in Southern California, that's how I explain it to myself.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Sorta kinda last thought maybe ....


When I search 'asian model', I get China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Thailand, VietNam, et al.

I do not get any example pictures or names from other areas.