Question In Regards To Literary Agents...

[LasciviousSanity]

Hello everyone!

I have a few questions for established/published writers...

how hard is it to find a literary agent? Is it necessary to already be published before one will represent you? Is representation driven by the current bestsellers on the market or what manuscripts the publishers think are marketable for the time?

Answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[slyc_willie]

Hello everyone!

I have a few questions for established/published writers...

how hard is it to find a literary agent? Is it necessary to already be published before one will represent you? Is representation driven by the current bestsellers on the market or what manuscripts the publishers think are marketable for the time?

Answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

I'd say it depends on your genre. When I was writing sci-fi, I had a few pieces published before I looked for an agent. The one who eventually took me on got a couple of my short stories published in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction (a serious accomplishment for any sci-fi author). But further submissions weren't as well-received, and my agent dropped me.

A couple of years ago, I found another agent, who said he liked my novels (I have two finished manuscripts) and proceeded to go hunting for me. But he also charged me editting fees that I felt were unwarranted (I'd already ahd the manuscripts worked through by independent editors). After a year and a half, he had produced nothing, so I 'fired' him.

Agents, publishers, and the reading public are all fickle. Sometimes, what is hot on the market drives what is subsequently published. Other times, publishers look for something totally different.

I'm no expert, but when it comes to finding an author and trying to get published, cross your fingers, close your eyes, and click your heels three times . . . .

 

[LasciviousSanity]

I'd say it depends on your genre. When I was writing sci-fi, I had a few pieces published before I looked for an agent. The one who eventually took me on got a couple of my short stories published in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction (a serious accomplishment for any sci-fi author). But further submissions weren't as well-received, and my agent dropped me.

A couple of years ago, I found another agent, who said he liked my novels (I have two finished manuscripts) and proceeded to go hunting for me. But he also charged me editting fees that I felt were unwarranted (I'd already ahd the manuscripts worked through by independent editors). After a year and a half, he had produced nothing, so I 'fired' him.

Agents, publishers, and the reading public are all fickle. Sometimes, what is hot on the market drives what is subsequently published. Other times, publishers look for something totally different.

I'm no expert, but when it comes to finding an author and trying to get published, cross your fingers, close your eyes, and click your heels three times . . . .

Oh gawd that sounds like a lion's Den.

It's discouraging but I know it may very well be true...oh well such is life, right?

 

[slyc_willie]

Oh gawd that sounds like a lion's Den.

It's discouraging but I know it may very well be true...oh well such is life, right?

I'm not trying to discourage you . . . after all, I'm still out there, still trying.

But trying to get published can be the biggest reality check you'll ever face. You think you write great stuff, your friends, family, lovers all adore it . . . it's fantastic! It'll win awards! You'll blow J.K. Rowling out of the water!

Eh . . . not quite. Or maybe you will, who knows?

There is nothing more humbling than trying to get published. But once you get there . . . damn it, let the ego burst!

Until someone pops it, anyway

 

[LasciviousSanity]

I'm not trying to discourage you . . . after all, I'm still out there, still trying.

But trying to get published can be the biggest reality check you'll ever face. You think you write great stuff, your friends, family, lovers all adore it . . . it's fantastic! It'll win awards! You'll blow J.K. Rowling out of the water!

Eh . . . not quite. Or maybe you will, who knows?

There is nothing more humbling than trying to get published. But once you get there . . . damn it, let the ego burst!

Until someone pops it, anyway

lol..well my ego is non existent as it is now. Which is why I rarely read others work, at least other struggling writers and so on. I see a lot of great talent and think to myself..if these people are not the next JK rowling then how in the heck am I gonna make it??

So the reality check is there, but after what you said I'll need skin of teflon to go down this road.

 

[slyc_willie]

lol..well my ego is non existent as it is now. Which is why I rarely read others work, at least other struggling writers and so on. I see a lot of great talent and think to myself..if these people are not the next JK rowling then how in the heck am I gonna make it??

So the reality check is there, but after what you said I'll need skin of teflon to go down this road.

I may have been too blunt, but then again, the publishing world is worse.

I have seen people get published, and after reading their work, wonder how the hell they got their shit in print. Patricia Cornwell, for instance. Or Anne Rice. Sure, people sing their praises now, but . . . you ever read their really early stuff?

I was writing like that in tenth grade! Or so I'd like to think.

The market for any kind of writing is always fluid, fickle, and changing. Sometimes, talent takes a back seat to happenstance and luck. Bottom line, keep trying. I sure as hell am.

But for more authoritative comments, get in touch with Selena, DanielleKitten, RGraham, and Boota. They could probably tell you more.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Oh gawd that sounds like a lion's Den.

It's discouraging but I know it may very well be true...oh well such is life, right?

Well, to be honest, I don't find it discouraging. I know that I will never be published, and I'm fine with that. I can allow my writing to take me where it wants to go. And the advantage of Lit is that people will read it, and some will even like it.

But, if you want to be published then go for it. I did notice that Penguin Books will take manuscripts from unknown writers without an agent.

Good luck!

 

[drksideofthemoon]

I may have been too blunt, but then again, the publishing world is worse.

I have seen people get published, and after reading their work, wonder how the hell they got their shit in print. Patricia Cornwell, for instance. Or Anne Rice. Sure, people sing their praises now, but . . . you ever read their really early stuff?

Clive Cussler is another example...how the hell does he get published, his stories are predictable, and follow the same format with each book....sheesh...

 

[Unsung Muse]

Hello everyone!

I have a few questions for established/published writers...

how hard is it to find a literary agent? Is it necessary to already be published before one will represent you? Is representation driven by the current bestsellers on the market or what manuscripts the publishers think are marketable for the time?

Answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Here is the advice I was given on the subject of agents. It's a direct quote from a fellow LIT writer, but (since it was part of an email exchange rather than a posting) I'll let him choose whether or not to identify himself...

"As for agents, my best advice is “forgeddabouddit.” It’s actually easier for a “new” writer to find a publisher than an agent. Aside from the con artists who make promises they have no intention of keeping and hit you with huge “reading fees,” “editorial fees,” and “breathing my air” fees, very few agents will even consider a
writer who can’t show them an extensive body of publication credits at high-paying markets. The sad but inescapable fact of life is that agents work on commission, and they go bankrupt if their income consists of 15% of anything less than very large royalties; they can't afford to shoot craps on unknown quantities, no matter how promising. From my own experience, I had published five books and more than 1,000
magazine articles and short stories before a legitimate agent deigned to speak to me. By that time, he couldn’t do anything for me that I couldn’t do for myself."

 

[slyc_willie]

Clive Cussler is another example...how the hell does he get published, his stories are predictable, and follow the same format with each book....sheesh...

In his first book (can't remember the title) Cussler was halfway on the road to smut . . . he could have been posting here on Lit if he had only taken a left turn when he went right.

As far as predictability, what about Michener? Same families, same books, different places . . . .

 

[slyc_willie]

Here is the advice I was given on the subject of agents. It's a direct quote from a fellow LIT writer, but (since it was part of an email exchange rather than a posting) I'll let him choose whether or not to identify himself...

"As for agents, my best advice is “forgeddabouddit.” It’s actually easier for a “new” writer to find a publisher than an agent. Aside from the con artists who make promises they have no intention of keeping and hit you with huge “reading fees,” “editorial fees,” and “breathing my air” fees, very few agents will even consider a
writer who can’t show them an extensive body of publication credits at high-paying markets. The sad but inescapable fact of life is that agents work on commission, and they go bankrupt if their income consists of 15% of anything less than very large royalties; they can't afford to shoot craps on unknown quantities, no matter how promising. From my own experience, I had published five books and more than 1,000
magazine articles and short stories before a legitimate agent deigned to speak to me. By that time, he couldn’t do anything for me that I couldn’t do for myself."

All I can say is . . . he's lucky . . . or just really that good.

Kudos.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

In his first book (can't remember the title) Cussler was halfway on the road to smut . . . he could have been posting here on Lit if he had only taken a left turn when he went right.

As far as predictability, what about Michener? Same families, same books, different places . . . .

Yeah, I read two and bit of Michener's books...I felt like I had read it all before...

 

[slyc_willie]

Yeah, I read two and bit of Michener's books...I felt like I had read it all before...

You know, I suppose anyone could say the same thing about some of our stories. Don't we all use some of the same devices, perhaps even the same plots? I find myself looking at my writing at times and thinking, 'I've described a blow job like this before.'

But my readers still like it.

Wonder if Michener ever thought the same. I'm willing to bet he did, and said, 'ah, fuck it' and kept typing.

The only difference is that he's got a damn nice house and four cars (or more) in the garage.

Life is just so freakin' unfair sometimes . . .

 

[drksideofthemoon]

You know, I suppose anyone could say the same thing about some of our stories. Don't we all use some of the same devices, perhaps even the same plots? I find myself looking at my writing at times and thinking, 'I've described a blow job like this before.'

But my readers still like it.

Wonder if Michener ever thought the same. I'm willing to bet he did, and said, 'ah, fuck it' and kept typing.

The only difference is that he's got a damn nice house and four cars (or more) in the garage.

Life is just so freakin' unfair sometimes . . .

Well, I can see "If it worked once, lemme try again"....and if you're getting paid for it....take it all the way to the bank...

That's the tough part about writing smut...trying not to write the same sex scene over and over and over...LOL...that's the hardest part about writing Montana Summer now...

 

[slyc_willie]

Well, I can see "If it worked once, lemme try again"....and if you're getting paid for it....take it all the way to the bank...

That's the tough part about writing smut...trying not to write the same sex scene over and over and over...LOL...that's the hardest part about writing Montana Summer now...

Feeling almost like you're beating a dead horse, darkside?

Now and then, when I write, I see certain phrases and passages . . . and they just look too familiar. I know I'm not alone in this, and neither are you.

Lol . . . I wonder if we'll get tired of writing about sex . . . 'been there, done that'

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Feeling almost like you're beating a dead horse, darkside?

Now and then, when I write, I see certain phrases and passages . . . and they just look too familiar. I know I'm not alone in this, and neither are you.

Lol . . . I wonder if we'll get tired of writing about sex . . . 'been there, done that'

Hey, the horses all doing fine in the story...LOL...

Yes, I've seen that in Montana Summer especially, the same phrases seem to pop up...sometimes that's good, and other times I go back and try to change them....

I know that at times I am tired of writing sex, that there is more out there...and again, I think you can see some of that in Montana Summer where the story has taken over from the erotic....

 

[Belegon]

That's the tough part about writing smut...trying not to write the same sex scene over and over and over...LOL...that's the hardest part about writing Montana Summer now...

In general, the reaction of most of the "Mainstream" writers I've been lucky enough to make the acquaintance of is that good smut is VERY difficult to write. Steve Berry said to us that he could "never do what you do" ( Steve's new bookThe Alexandria Link is currently number seven on the Hardcover Fiction New York Times Bestsellers List).

Agents:
It all depends on the route you wish to follow. If your goal is to get a first novel published by a New York house, you need an agent. You need to be prepared to go through a few before you find one you connect with and you need to be patient. You need to expect to be rejected...repeatedly.

Agents get as many or more submissions than publishers now. Many publishers are using agents as de facto screening services. Agents, like publishers, have little time to find new talent. You need to "Wow" them from line 1. Not page 1. Line 1. Over & over, I've heard that after reading the first line they decide whether to read the first paragraph...then the first page....then the first chapter.

Can you make it to the big houses without an agent? It's possible. It's also harder.

I decided (OK, was pulled along while I quaked in fear of rejection) to go a different route. My first print work will be released in April, so I have to admit my partner was right.

Imp doesn't feel she'll ever need an agent. I think one could be useful. It's a non-issue for now. Most likely, my first agent will only be dealing with my solo work.

 

[slyc_willie]

Hey, the horses all doing fine in the story...LOL...

Yes, I've seen that in Montana Summer especially, the same phrases seem to pop up...sometimes that's good, and other times I go back and try to change them....

I know that at times I am tired of writing sex, that there is more out there...and again, I think you can see some of that in Montana Summer where the story has taken over from the erotic....

It's the Erotician (is that a word? If not, I just made it up -- I'll patent it later) Conundrum.

We love to write what we write, just as Michener, Cussler, and Cornwall all love what they write. And there's an audience for it, no matter what. And even if we feel we are tired of writing the smae things over and over . . . there's always something different, something new.

I suppose I understand them after all.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

Agents:
It all depends on the route you wish to follow. If your goal is to get a first novel published by a New York house, you need an agent. You need to be prepared to go through a few before you find one you connect with and you need to be patient. You need to expect to be rejected...repeatedly.

Well, this is one area where I won't have to worry...I have no intentions of trying to be published...I just don't have the time, or the ambition.

 

[kane_new]

I have some experience in this field so I can give you some input.

First off it really depends on what type of writing you are going to do. If it is non-fiction you can probably do okay without an agent, unless it is some kind of "blockbuster" non-fiction that you expect to make a best sellers list. Non-fiction is a very specific market and you really need to find the right publisher for your project.

If it is fiction then what type of fiction is the big question. If you are writing a book that has a limited audience, like young adult or horror, sci-fi/fantasy that type of thing you might be able to do okay without an agent because there are limited publishers that do this type of stuff and they know what they are looking for. If you are writing in a more mainstream area like mysteries, general fiction and the type of stuff that has a very broad audience you really need an agent. If the book is good the agent knows who is looking and what they are looking for and they can help you find the right place. It's not just enough to get published, you have to have some measure of success. If your first book is a flop they may let you write another. If it is flop you are probably done and will have to then settle for small press type of stuff. Big publishers don't want someone that has a track record of failure. So self publishing might not be a great idea. Publishers often want to be the one the "break you" to the public. If you already have self published a few books your name might be out there a little and you aren't the hot new kid on the block anymore.

If you think you have something that is commercial, work hard to find an agent and the right house and editor to work with. I was told a while back that if an agent wants you to pay them for anything up front, don't. Serious agents make money selling books. They will read your book for free. They will know by 40 pages in if they think it has a chance at being sold.

Hiring an independent editor is a good move. Having another set of eyes on your work can help to really shed light on it. When you submit your book to an agent you only get once chance to wow them so you don't want to send them something that is full of editorial mistakes and isn't the best work you can do.

Just my 2cents. hope it helps.

 

[floweringquince]

You know, I suppose anyone could say the same thing about some of our stories. Don't we all use some of the same devices, perhaps even the same plots? I find myself looking at my writing at times and thinking, 'I've described a blow job like this before.'

I was looking at my various story ideas the other day, and realized that, although there are a wide range of settings and circumstances, the "sex script" rarely varies: spanking, blow job, vaginal, anal; spanking, blow job, vaginal, anal; spanking, blow job, vaginal, anal... (yawn) zzzz....
...my blissfully envisioned legions of future readers turn into surly hordes rising up to shake their collective fist and yell "Sure you get them out of different clothes every time, but then you keep writing the same damned story!"

(That'll teach me to eat peanut-butter-&-pickles sandwiches late at night

And sometimes the blow job comes before the spanking, and the positions for penetrations vary. Besides, sex itself is pretty damned repetitive (in, out, in, out, in, out, in....), but most people don't seem to get tired of *it* very easily

But my readers still like it.

Human beings like repetition. It gives them predictability, which is comforting (why else would we re-read our favorite books, or haul out our favorite movies & music and play them again, every couple of years?)

And anyone with a toddler knows that what is the inane tedium of the "Barney" song to an adult, is soothing, happy, reassurance to the kid

I think that series romances, and the Clive Cussler & Michener schools of writing, appeal to the same love of repetition, the same need for predictability, in some adults.

And it's not just at the low end of the "class & culture" scale. Part of the genius of Bach's music is the way he takes a theme, establishes it, develops it, embroiders it, wanders away from it, comes back to it, and, yes, repeats it.

So how do we as writers get our work to come out more like Bach and less like Barney?
Not sure I know. (And if I did, wouldn't I be in New York right now, telling Harper Collins or Simon & Shuster what *I* want from *them*?)

Wonder if Michener ever thought the same. I'm willing to bet he did, and said, 'ah, fuck it' and kept typing.

The only difference is that he's got a damn nice house and four cars (or more) in the garage.

Slick, I expect that Michener has at least four damned nice houses

I'm going to stand up for Michener a bit here: yes, the huge 'historical' (epics? tomes? doorstops? are tripe, but he wrote some good stuff, too. "South Pacific" is indeed a kick-ass novel, and "The Fires Of Spring" is excellent. There's one he wrote called "Sayonara" that is a darned good example of everything that a novel ought to do.

I suspect that he hit it big with "South Pacific", did well with a couple others, and then started running out of material from his own life. He foundered around for a bit, and then discovered that he could do the ensemble-epic format of "South Pacific" over and over again, and people would keep buying it over and over again, as long as he kept changing the sets and costumes.


As to agents, my understanding is that a good one will take 15 or 20% out of a deal that gets you at least 30-50% more than you would have gotten for yourself. There are agents that specialize in erotica, and there are (probably) some who specialize in new writers.

(There are also scam artists who pose agents and will happily take you for everything you care to fork over; so bear in mind that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't good or true.)

If I were ready to look for an agent or a publisher, I'd go to the library and get the latest copy of "Writer's Market*" that they had on the shelf. In addition to their encyclopedic listing of agents, publishers, etc.; they also have very nice "how-to" articles on whether to send ones work to an agent or a publisher, finding an agent (or publisher), approaching an agent (or publisher), working with an agent (or publisher), avoiding the scamsters, etc.

(*There are specialized versions of "Writer's Market" for Fiction, and (I think) for Novels & Short Stories, which would be handy if the library has 'em.)

Then once I was sure that I was seriously going to do this, I'd got to the bookstore and buy the 2007 "Writer's Market" for $30 worth of mere money; and I'd use that latest copy to make my lists of agents (or publishers) to send inquiry letters to.

My impression (which, no, you cannot usefully take to the bank is that; if you work about as hard at the business of writing & sending out inquiry letters, keeping track of responses, sending out more inquiry letters, and - oh - actually writing from time to time; as you would have to if you were waiting on tables in restaurant somewhere, you can make about as much as you would waiting tables - unless, of course, lightning strikes, and you make more than James Michener ever dreamed of

- Quince, who is no good at waiting tables

 

[impressive]

Imp doesn't feel she'll ever need an agent.

This is inaccurate. Imp believes she'll need an agent IF she ever aspires to be published by a New York house.

Imp currently does not aspire to such.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Generally, if you are writing a non-fiction book and your name is Dick Chaney, Hillary Clinton or some other well know personality, most literary agents will be happy to represent you.

On the other hand, as an unpublished writer, your chances of finding an agent is pretty small, except for the scammers out there who haunt the literary world. As an unpublished writer the agent, working on a commission, can't make a living on placing a book with a publisher when he/she has to work with it for 3 or 4 months, with a commission of $500.00 total.

Clearly, half or more of the books published each year are by new writers without agents. Once published, if your book sells and you've shown you can make money for the publishers, the agents will come to you.

There are lots of publishers out there who accept works from new writers. So, give it a go.

Good luck.

 

[rgraham666]

This is inaccurate. Imp believes she'll need an agent IF she ever aspires to be published by a New York house.

Imp currently does not aspire to such.

That sums me up.

I'm just happy to be published at all.

 

[LasciviousSanity]

Thank you all for your prospectives and advice.