Question for Older British authors

[TheRedChamber]

I'm currently in the planning stages for a possible story involving an engaged British couples association with an American girl who has appeared as a centrefold in a 'Playboy' style magazine. This is going to be a period story and I'm currently doing a bit of research and trying to pin down some details about the pin up. I'm trying to find a suitable date for the story to take place which could be anywhere from 1953 (first Playboy magazines published) to somewhere in the 1970s. Part of the story is likely to feature a gifted magazine and the subsequent trouble it causes. I've been trying to find out when exactly top-shelf magazines became widely-available in the UK. A lot of the information about the history of pornography focuses on hardcore. I've been able to establish that the Sun Page Three started in 1969 and Fiesta Magazine in 1966 is the earliest magazine I've been able to identify as having nudes. There's some information about Blighty/Parade magazine as having pin-up as early as 1939, but these only seems to have been topless after the 70s.

So, my basic question is, what were the easily accessible spank bank options for a young gentlemen in the 1950s/early 1960s?

 

[XerXesXu]

I'm currently in the planning stages for a possible story involving an engaged British couples association with an American girl who has appeared as a centrefold in a 'Playboy' style magazine. This is going to be a period story and I'm currently doing a bit of research and trying to pin down some details about the pin up. I'm trying to find a suitable date for the story to take place which could be anywhere from 1953 (first Playboy magazines published) to somewhere in the 1970s. Part of the story is likely to feature a gifted magazine and the subsequent trouble it causes. I've been trying to find out when exactly top-shelf magazines became widely-available in the UK. A lot of the information about the history of pornography focuses on hardcore. I've been able to establish that the Sun Page Three started in 1969 and Fiesta Magazine in 1966 is the earliest magazine I've been able to identify as having nudes. There's some information about Blighty/Parade magazine as having pin-up as early as 1939, but these only seems to have been topless after the 70s.

So, my basic question is, what were the easily accessible spank bank options for a young gentlemen in the 1950s/early 1960s?

There were a lot of pocketbook size mags with glamour/pinup photos. The only UK published magazines with naked flesh, at that time, were naturist magazines. Continental magazines (softcore) were available under the counter ‘by order’, or, in swap shops, in the back office.

 

[TheRedChamber]

There were a lot of pocketbook size mags with glamour/pinup photos. The only UK published magazines with naked flesh, at that time, were naturist magazines. Continental magazines (softcore) were available under the counter ‘by order’, or, in swap shops, in the back office.

Thanks. I hadn't thought about naturist magazines - I'm expanding my research to look into these.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Thanks. I hadn't thought about naturist magazines - I'm expanding my research to look into these.

'Health and Efficiency' was the classic well-known one, which was referenced in popular culture into the 80s.

Glad to hear for once I'm not 'older'!

I believe lingerie pages of online clothing catalogues were remarkably popular until the arrival of the internet, if that could work?

 

[TheRedChamber]

'Health and Efficiency' was the classic well-known one, which was referenced in popular culture into the 80s.

Glad to hear for once I'm not 'older'!

I believe lingerie pages of online clothing catalogues were remarkably popular until the arrival of the internet, if that could work?

I'm seeing if I can find a full edition of H&E somewhere - maybe not even for this story, but as a source of inspiration for other stuff.

The Grattan Catalogue lingerie section definitely played an important educational role in my earlier adolecence before I was able to obtain an actual gentleman's magazine.

To be clear it's not really a matter of working or not working - the fact that a real-life centrefold is in the characters life is enough to drive the story forward - I'm just trying to work out how various characters would react to that kind of magazine in those days and if there's an ideal moment in time to set it. It'll probably end up as the male MC maybe having seen a copy of the black and white H&E found in a forest, but then being blown-away by a full-colour sexualized photograph of a woman standing in front of him. Alternatively I may fast-forward to 1969 - the Summer of Love and (equally importantly) Barbara Windors' bra in Carry on Camping - and just have my characters behind the curve.

 

[oggbashan]

They were a large number of A5 size black and white naturist style magazines in the 1950s. I have a pile somewhere.

They were NOT naturist although sometimes sold as such. They featured bare-breasted women wearing lingerie in proactive poses. They were available in most newsagents by order but NOT displayed on shelves.

But my earliest go-to places were bare-breasted 'native' women in back copies of the National Geographic.

 

[TheRedChamber]

They were a large number of A5 size black and white naturist style magazines in the 1950s. I have a pile somewhere.

They were NOT naturist although sometimes sold as such. They featured bare-breasted women wearing lingerie in proactive poses. They were available in most newsagents by order but NOT displayed on shelves.

But my earliest go-to places were bare-breasted 'native' women in back copies of the National Geographic.

Ok thanks for the info. I don't suppose you remember the names of any of the specific magazines.

If I've got this right, it would make sense that I could set the story anywhere upto about 1965 and have a young horny but naive twenty-something man be essentially amazed by Playboy centrefold in the UK?

 

[colddiesel]

Playboy magazine was never all that big a deal in the UK. It was too expensive, the models were improbably pneumatic for British tastes. Fiesta probably out competed it on price (from 1966) and the letters/reports content of Fiesta was racier than anything publishable in the US. The Playboy club in London was a big deal but this was because it held one of the very rare UK Casino licences. The Club was tacky, it cost 8 pounds a year for membership and with about 8000 members was not at all exclusive.

 

[000zing]

I'm seeing if I can find a full edition of H&E somewhere - maybe not even for this story, but as a source of inspiration for other stuff.

The Grattan Catalogue lingerie section definitely played an important educational role in my earlier adolecence before I was able to obtain an actual gentleman's magazine.

Over many years of emailing with UK correspondents (both men and women) of a "certain age", I heard more than one reference to that catalogue underwear section educational role. In my own case it was a Kay's Catalogue! I recall it being mentioned at least partly because it co-incided with my own experience... so I'm guessing it was quite a widespread phenomenon.

Faute de mieux, I'd imagine. I really don't think much of value was around in print right up until the '60s. If you're talking films, then mainstream softcore probably takes off with Sylvia Kristel and "Emmanuelle' in the mid-'70s. French, of course, not British.

 

[XerXesXu]

Playboy magazine was never all that big a deal in the UK. It was too expensive, the models were improbably pneumatic for British tastes. Fiesta probably out competed it on price (from 1966) and the letters/reports content of Fiesta was racier than anything publishable in the US. The Playboy club in London was a big deal but this was because it held one of the very rare UK Casino licences. The Club was tacky, it cost 8 pounds a year for membership and with about 8000 members was not at all exclusive.

The garden balcony at the back is overlooked from the rear of the Guards and Cavalry Club. I'm sure many of the members have stood to attention and saluted the bunnies sunbathing topless.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Playboy magazine was never all that big a deal in the UK. It was too expensive, the models were improbably pneumatic for British tastes. Fiesta probably out competed it on price (from 1966) and the letters/reports content of Fiesta was racier than anything publishable in the US. The Playboy club in London was a big deal but this was because it held one of the very rare UK Casino licences. The Club was tacky, it cost 8 pounds a year for membership and with about 8000 members was not at all exclusive.

Improbably pneumatic works well for this particular story. It's also important that the models of Playboy had a certain fame that would be lacking from girls appearing in under-the-counter or early UK nude magazines. The story works better if America is futher into the sexual revoluation than Britain is at the time and Playboy does seem to have been earlier than anything equivalent in Britain. I remember not being too impressed with the quality of Fiesta in the 1990s.

Over many years of emailing with UK correspondents (both men and women) of a "certain age", I heard more than one reference to that catalogue underwear section educational role. In my own case it was a Kay's Catalogue! I recall it being mentioned at least partly because it co-incided with my own experience... so I'm guessing it was quite a widespread phenomenon.

Faute de mieux, I'd imagine. I really don't think much of value was around right up until the '60s.

I was probably the last generation to grow up without the Internet during my sexual awakening. The Grattan Catalogue and late-night French movies were all I had for a while there. The catalogue was probably in every home in the UK and, while hardly sexy, did at least give some indication of the female form.

 

[000zing]

I was probably the last generation to grow up without the Internet during my sexual awakening. The Grattan Catalogue and late-night French movies were all I had for a while there. The catalogue was probably in every home in the UK and, while hardly sexy, did at least give some indication of the female form.

As mentioned, it's also true that the men's underwear section wasn't scanned only by men looking to buy underwear!

 

[colddiesel]

The garden balcony at the back is overlooked from the rear of the Guards and Cavalry Club. I'm sure many of the members have stood to attention and saluted the bunnies sunbathing topless.

I doubt it. The average Guards officer would have been more interested in the legalization of homosexuality - also in 1967! (The US followed in 2003 - I suspect that the op might have got it backwards thinking the sexual revolution came to the US first)

 

[XerXesXu]

I doubt it. The average Guards officer would have been more interested in the legalization of homosexuality - also in 1967! (The US followed in 2003 - I suspect that the op might have got it backwards thinking the sexual revolution came to the US first)

Mention it to these guys. Observe their brolly placement.

Guards, Remembrance.

 

[oggbashan]

See this link:

https://flashbak.com/a-potpourri-of-1950s-60s-girlie-magazines-from-adam-to-eve-24855/

 

[TheRedChamber]

See this link:

https://flashbak.com/a-potpourri-of-1950s-60s-girlie-magazines-from-adam-to-eve-24855/

Thanks, that's helpful. Most of the magazines seem to be American which is interesting, but not quite what I was after. However, I managed to find a full scan of Beautiful Britons from the 50s which confirmed the girls are showing some stocking, some lingerie, at worst a towel round them, but no actual nudity.

I doubt it. The average Guards officer would have been more interested in the legalization of homosexuality - also in 1967! (The US followed in 2003 - I suspect that the op might have got it backwards thinking the sexual revolution came to the US first)

Yeah, okay, further along into the pornography revolution at least is what I meant - the sexual revolution obviously had a lot of different facets and America having 50+ sets of laws doesn't help keep things simple either - I'm thinking a character who was from California and good buddies with Hugh Hefner is going to be more liberated than the average Briton.

Further research has turned up gold about the stupid restrictions on exotic dancing at the time.

At the moment, it seems like 1963 - with Beatlemania starting in the UK, but not quite in the States is probably a nicely zeitgeisty moment to set it.

 

[colddiesel]

Mention it to these guys. Observe their brolly placement.

Guards, Remembrance.

We did - mention it, many times! I served in a Scottish regiment from the mid 50's to the early 70's. It was more or less compulsory for our lads on meeting any guardsman to cast doubts on the sexual proclivities of them, and especially their officers. They invariably responded with equal subtlety, waxing lyrically and very imaginatively about soldiers in skirts (Kilts) In these enlightened days we would probably all be sent for counselling.

 

[XerXesXu]

We did - mention it, many times! I served in a Scottish regiment from the mid 50's to the early 70's. It was more or less compulsory for our lads on meeting any guardsman to cast doubts on the sexual proclivities of them, and especially their officers. They invariably responded with equal subtlety, waxing lyrically and very imaginatively about soldiers in skirts (Kilts) In these enlightened days we would probably all be sent for counselling.

There's still much speculation about what you hide under your sporran.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Ok, follow-up question...

London 1963 - an unmarried (but engaged) couple (25M,22F) want to share a hotel room. How difficult is it and what are their options? Can they get away with just saying they're married? - the idea is that they don't actually want to have sex, but she doesn't want to let him out of her sight (for plot-related reasons). It'll work better if their digs turn out to be seedy and/or disapproving.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I can easily imagine a small affordable (aka run-down and a bit seedy) B&B run by a landlady welcoming a young couple where the chap introduces his wife, but then after they have acquired the keys, she notices a lack of wedding ring and sours.

I'm going by my parents' anecdotes, but disapproving landladies were certainly a thing.

 

[ishtat]

Just a small point but by far the most important event in changing British attitudes to sex was the Profumo Scandal of 1963. It exposed not only the complete hypocrisy of the 'establishment' but also that of the mealy mouthed prurience of the judge charged with investigating it. Eventually it brought about the demise of the conservative government and more importantly their assumptions that 'their class of people ' pretty much determined standards in everything.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Just a small point but by far the most important event in changing British attitudes to sex was the Profumo Scandal of 1963. It exposed not only the complete hypocrisy of the 'establishment' but also that of the mealy mouthed prurience of the judge charged with investigating it. Eventually it brought about the demise of the conservative government and more importantly their assumptions that 'their class of people ' pretty much determined standards in everything.

Yes, the more I research the more 1963 seems like an ideally setting for this particular story. Not sure to what extent the Profumo Affair will feature, but will probably get a mention in passing or possibly more.

I can easily imagine a small affordable (aka run-down and a bit seedy) B&B run by a landlady welcoming a young couple where the chap introduces his wife, but then after they have acquired the keys, she notices a lack of wedding ring and sours.

I'm going by my parents' anecdotes, but disapproving landladies were certainly a thing.

Seems about right.

 

[oggbashan]

In 1963 I had a range of Woolworth gold-looking wedding rings in different sizes for pretending to be married when using a hotel.
It helped if we looked bored with each other, but we could also pretend to be newly-weds...


In my experience, the landladies didn't care as long as we pretended we were married. They just wanted our money. It was the older elderly guests that disapproved. They didn't like the sight of people in love. It could make them choke on their breakfasts even if we were actually married.

 

[XerXesXu]

In 1963 soliciting in the street for the purposes of prostitution had only been illegal for 6 years, but the girls didn't just disappear. It was probably 20 years before street prostitutes became a rare sight. The BnBs near mainline railway stations often acted as short-time hotels. However, many did not want to be associated with prostitution, they would have words like 'Family' in their title. I can remember 100s of girls soliciting around Kings Cross station and Argyle Square. Argyle Square hosted a large number of small hotels/BnBs. I would think a 'Family' hotel would turn away any mismatched couple, without luggage, whether they appeared married or not, or become very upset if, for some reason, they thought their hospitality was being abused.

 

[oggbashan]

An empty suitcase was enough...

But the sleazy hotels around Kings Cross would charge rooms by the hour.