Question about setting a scene

[Bonniehart]

I'm struggling to write a scene and could use some pointers. It goes something like this:

My characters (well known to each other, and the reader) are in a night club - having a fabulous time and starting to feel randy. After many drinks, much dancing, and progressively more advanced teasing - they go back home and romp happily until dawn.

The romping happily until dawn part I can write, no problem. The problem is - my characters are stuck in a night club and I don't quite know how to get them out of there. All the stuff I put down about the setting just seems awkward and clumsy.

I'm wondering if its because it isn't really relevant to the story, and does it matter to the reader what happens in the night club anyway? Does the reader care what each character is wearing? Is the reader interested in knowing what songs they danced to, and what they were thinking and feeling while they were doing it? I'm starting to think "no". Also, because enjoyment of music is so personal - and at times age and culture specific - I wonder if describing the music and the experience in the club would alienate some readers rather than draw them in.

What are your thoughts? Better just to say "they danced, they drank, they had a lot of fun" and and ten cut straight to the chase with what happened afterwards; or does the description of what happened first add something to the narrative?

 

[slyc_willie]

I'm struggling to write a scene and could use some pointers. It goes something like this:

My characters (well known to each other, and the reader) are in a night club - having a fabulous time and starting to feel randy. After many drinks, much dancing, and progressively more advanced teasing - they go back home and romp happily until dawn.

The romping happily until dawn part I can write, no problem. The problem is - my characters are stuck in a night club and I don't quite know how to get them out of there. All the stuff I put down about the setting just seems awkward and clumsy.

I'm wondering if its because it isn't really relevant to the story, and does it matter to the reader what happens in the night club anyway? Does the reader care what each character is wearing? Is the reader interested in knowing what songs they danced to, and what they were thinking and feeling while they were doing it? I'm starting to think "no". Also, because enjoyment of music is so personal - and at times age and culture specific - I wonder if describing the music and the experience in the club would alienate some readers rather than draw them in.

What are your thoughts? Better just to say "they danced, they drank, they had a lot of fun" and and ten cut straight to the chase with what happened afterwards; or does the description of what happened first add something to the narrative?

A long, slow, teasing build-up can arouse the reader as much as the characters. We write erotica, after all; the reader is going to know that the characters will end up in bed together . . . or, at the least, they hope so.

Pulling the reader in through dialogue and scene setting is an excellent way to mark a story as something more than just a typical, 'They saw, they met, they fucked."

 

[3113]

What are your thoughts? Better just to say "they danced, they drank, they had a lot of fun" and and ten cut straight to the chase with what happened afterwards

Perfectly fine for a short story, and especially if nothing in particular happens at the nightclub outside of dancing, drinking and having fun. The most successful scenes at nightclubs--that I've read on Lit, that is--usually involve couples meeting for the first time and feeling that charge as they see each other at the bar, dance around each other, watch each other drink; nightclub as a form of initial foreplay.

Nightclubs also work when there's some sort of tension between the characters, so that the drama, etc. get acted out on the dance floor or at the bar.

But if it's just a second date, a night out on the town, then there's really no need to detail such a scene. That said, you've got three options:

1) As you say, go general--a "summary" of their fun time. A little more detailed than you have it, but pretty much the same, so "they shared sips of each other's martinis" rather than "they drank," and "they practiced their salsa steps and he nibbled on her neck till she was flushed and sweaty..." something like that. But otherwise, just a summary.

2) Have one important part detailed and keep the rest generic. So "They drank..." general, but the scene out on the dance floor you give the details about because they're grinding hips and getting sweaty, and it shows us how lustful they are for each other.

3) Keep all the detail...and have them do the dirty deed at the nightclub. This is if you want the sex to have that added tension--the naughtiness of doing it someplace illicit, and all that. If they're the kind of couple who wouldn't wait, and if it makes the story interesting to have them do it someplace like that, go for it.

That's my advice.

 

[3113]

Pulling the reader in through dialogue and scene setting is an excellent way to mark a story as something more than just a typical, 'They saw, they met, they fucked."

Ah, but Slyc, too often when the writer wants to skip part "B" and get to part "C" and someone advises them to go through "B" then "B" ends up boring and the dialogue ends up "orange juice" ("Do you like orange juice?" "Yes, I do. I always have it with breakfast." "I'll remember that...").

Meaning there may be no "something more" that can be squeezed out of such a setting in this story with these characters. Just a scene that slows everything down.

In my experience, if the story is urging you to get to scene "C" then scene "B" is probably useless and a waste of time. Get to scene "C" as that is probably where the dialogue and sex and the "something more" is to be found. If it was to be found in the nightclub scene...the writer probably wouldn't be having so much trouble writing it.

 

[Oblimo]

Why are they in the club in the first place? What is the in-character reason, and the plot-structure purpose?

 

[slyc_willie]

Ah, but Slyc, too often when the writer wants to skip part "B" and get to part "C" and someone advises them to go through "B" then "B" ends up boring and the dialogue ends up "orange juice" ("Do you like orange juice?" "Yes, I do. I always have it with breakfast." "I'll remember that...").

Meaning there may be no "something more" that can be squeezed out of such a setting in this story with these characters. Just a scene that slows everything down.

In my experience, if the story is urging you to get to scene "C" then scene "B" is probably useless and a waste of time. Get to scene "C" as that is probably where the dialogue and sex and the "something more" is to be found. If it was to be found in the nightclub scene...the writer probably wouldn't be having so much trouble writing it.

Depends on the conversation. If it's not about orange juice, but more about something else they would rather savor on their tongue, than the dialogue can be just as arousing as the descriptions of the act itself.

A little innuendo goes a long way.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You certainly don't want to overdo the nightclub scene. Maybe mention one or two songs by name, and use the dancing to illustrate their escalating arousal. At one point, she might say they have to leave. He asks why, and she says the club will get pissed off if they start fucking on the floor. After that, you don't need much more to set the scene.

Personally, I would probably skip the nightclub scene altogether and get right to the sex, but that's me. I wouldn't actually recommend it.

 

[Camilleon]

I'm struggling to write a scene and could use some pointers. It goes something like this:

My characters (well known to each other, and the reader) are in a night club - having a fabulous time and starting to feel randy. After many drinks, much dancing, and progressively more advanced teasing - they go back home and romp happily until dawn.

The romping happily until dawn part I can write, no problem. The problem is - my characters are stuck in a night club and I don't quite know how to get them out of there. All the stuff I put down about the setting just seems awkward and clumsy.

I'm wondering if its because it isn't really relevant to the story, and does it matter to the reader what happens in the night club anyway? Does the reader care what each character is wearing? Is the reader interested in knowing what songs they danced to, and what they were thinking and feeling while they were doing it? I'm starting to think "no". Also, because enjoyment of music is so personal - and at times age and culture specific - I wonder if describing the music and the experience in the club would alienate some readers rather than draw them in.

What are your thoughts? Better just to say "they danced, they drank, they had a lot of fun" and and ten cut straight to the chase with what happened afterwards; or does the description of what happened first add something to the narrative?

For me, any time I wonder if a sentence or paragraph is relevant to a story, then that answers my question. If I'm unsure as the author, then it's not relevant. That's just me.

Kurt Vonnegut says that every sentence in a story should do one of two things: either develop character or move the action. I use that as my golden rule.

About what they are wearing - Does the reader care? Possibly. This can be used to develop character. In other words, their manner of dress can make them conservative, gothic, country-western, etc.

Regardless, in my opinion, this should never be provided as a punch list. You know, like, "she had on a skirt and a sleeveless sweater with matching...." That's boring. On the other hand, if he is viewing "...the fabric of her tiny skirt, pulled taunt about her round ass..." such description can describe the character and move the erotic action.

The music I feel you should handle just like the manner of dress, if you use it at all. Again, the music can help describe character, but may not be necessary.

Describing what they are thinking and feeling I think is imperative, unless you can make that apparent through their actions. I feel it is best to describe it. Still, these thoughts and feelings must either develop character or move the action.

I hope that helps - at least some.

Camilleon

 

[slyc_willie]

Ah, but Slyc, too often when the writer wants to skip part "B" and get to part "C" and someone advises them to go through "B" then "B" ends up boring and the dialogue ends up "orange juice" ("Do you like orange juice?" "Yes, I do. I always have it with breakfast." "I'll remember that...").

Meaning there may be no "something more" that can be squeezed out of such a setting in this story with these characters. Just a scene that slows everything down.

Another way to look at it . . . .

****

Her eyes flickered beneath the flashing lights of the club as we sat across from each other. I noticed what she was drinking, a cloudy, orange mixture that could have been a whisky sour. "Is that your preferred poison?" I asked her.

She smiled slyly, keeping her eyes locked on mine as she twirled the little straw in her drink with tip of her tongue. "Screwdriver? Yeah. It's my drink."

Her casual, but strong, innuendo was intimidating, making me fumble for something to say. "So, um, you like orange juice, huh?"

She looked amused. "Yeah. Kind'a tart, bitter, but also sweet. I like the dry aftertaste, too. The way it sort of . . . lingers in my throat, reminding me of what I swallowed."

I felt my heart pounding and my palms getting damp.

"And there's the name," she continued. "Screwdriver. As in . . . screw . . . driver." She finished her statement with a catty grin, sucking on the straw of her drink.

I cleared my throat. "Did I mention I parked right around the corner?"

-- Switch to bedroom, or nightclub hallway sex scene.

****

 

[3113]

Depends on the conversation. If it's not about orange juice, but more about something else they would rather savor on their tongue, than the dialogue can be just as arousing as the descriptions of the act itself.

Yes, I know. And we can certainly tell the writer that a nightclub scene can be sexy and have great dialogue. But is that really news? If I was having trouble with characters in a supermarket you could tell me the same thing, "depending on the conversation it could be arousing." Um. Yeah. Or characters on a basketball court. "Depending on the conversation, it could be arousing..." or in a car, or out bowling. Or at breakfast over a glass of orange juice.

Do you see my point? ANY scene *almost* anywhere can have arousing dialogue and erotic feelings if the writer is inspired to have it so--and has story/characters that allow it to be so. But likewise, ANY scene *almost* anywhere can be boring and a waste of time if the writer is not inspired to have it so, or the story/characters can't make it so. There are characters that will talk at the breakfast table and fuck on it as well. There are other characters who will just have breakfast. Orange juice included.

So just because it's a nightclub where sexy things *could* happen, and great dialogue *could* happen doesn't mean that in THIS story it can or will happen. Or that the writer should waste their time trying to make it happen if their instincts tell them to summarize and get to the scene where they KNOW that great dialogue and sex is going to happen.

Just IMHO given what the writer's said.

 

[Weird Harold]

I'm wondering if its because it isn't really relevant to the story, ...

As a general rule, when you feel like you need to ask is a scene is neessary to the story, the answer is NO!

3113 made some good points about the difference betweena short story and a longer work -- in a shor story, unless a scene has a specific purpose in advancing the story, it should NOT be included.

Ask yourself exactly what the purpose of the club scene is. If the purpose is "foreplay," then you probably need to keep it but make it more "generic;" concentrae on whathe characters are doing and seeing than what specific music is playing.

Also, because enjoyment of music is so personal - and at times age and culture specific - I wonder if describing the music and the experience in the club would alienate some readers rather than draw them in.

It depends on how you describe the club scene and the music. I personally get lost in club scenes that read like the end credits to a movie; Song A written by B, performd by C, used by permission of Bigbucks Copyright Collections.

If you describe how the music affects the characters and what the volume level feels like, and whether the dancing is a visual stimulation or a full-contac sport, you'll get mostly past the age and culture barriers and into the experience of whatever kind of club scene.

For example, I'v never been to a RAVE, but I've read many descriptions of fictional RAVEs and some of them were good enough to give me a sense of what makes them attractive to some people -- without relying on my (non-existant) knowledge of who the bands were or what music was played.

 

[slyc_willie]

Yes, I know. And we can certainly tell the writer that a nightclub scene can be sexy and have great dialogue. But is that really news? If I was having trouble with characters in a supermarket you could tell me the same thing, "depending on the conversation it could be arousing." Um. Yeah. Or characters on a basketball court. "Depending on the conversation, it could be arousing..." or in a car, or out bowling. Or at breakfast over a glass of orange juice.

Do you see my point? ANY scene *almost* anywhere can have arousing dialogue and erotic feelings if the writer is inspired to have it so--and has story/characters that allow it to be so. But likewise, ANY scene *almost* anywhere can be boring and a waste of time if the writer is not inspired to have it so, or the story/characters can't make it so. There are characters that will talk at the breakfast table and fuck on it as well. There are other characters who will just have breakfast. Orange juice included.

So just because it's a nightclub where sexy things *could* happen, and great dialogue *could* happen doesn't mean that in THIS story it can or will happen. Or that the writer should waste their time trying to make it happen if their instincts tell them to summarize and get to the scene where they KNOW that great dialogue and sex is going to happen.

Just IMHO given what the writer's said.

There are a hundred different ways to write. Yes, of course, I see your point.

But, as a reader, if I clicked on a story that went into the sex in paragraph two, I would probably back-click.

My own stories are pretty sex-heavy, but I like to create a sense of build-up, tension. At least give me a reason why they're fucking, other than, "they dig each other."

 

[3113]

But, as a reader, if I clicked on a story that went into the sex in paragraph two, I would probably back-click.

Fair enough. But there was nothing to suggest that the story was doing that. Then again, if that's what the writer wants--and the kind of story it is--then the advice stands. If this is a pure stroke story that works best with sex in the second paragraph, then it still might be better to skip the nightclub scene...even though it will lose you for a reader.

And sexy as the scene was that you wrote, we need to keep in mind that it was your nightclub with your characters

 

[slyc_willie]

Fair enough. But there was nothing to suggest that the story was doing that. Then again, if that's what the writer wants--and the kind of story it is--then the advice stands. If this is a pure stroke story that works best with sex in the second paragraph, then it still might be better to skip the nightclub scene...even though it will lose you for a reader.

And sexy as the scene was that you wrote, we need to keep in mind that it was your nightclub with your characters

As you said, fair enough. Different strokes and all that.

There is an audience for every piece (well, almost every) posted on Lit. Some just want the sex, others want more. No right, no wrong.

That's the beauty of writing.

 

[Bonniehart]

The only real reason they're in the nightclub is to introduce the dress one of the characters is wearing. There is some intent to illustrate the different personality styles of the characters - but mostly its about the dress.

Boxlicker - can I borrow your line about "lets leave before management get pissed"?

 

[elsol]

Setting the scene is foreplay.

So it's as important as foreplay...

Mind you, as a male... foreplay not really up there in the bag of sexual necessities, but *yawn* women certainly do like it.

 

[Weird Harold]

The only real reason they're in the nightclub is to introduce the dress one of the characters is wearing. There is some intent to illustrate the different personality styles of the characters - but mostly its about the dress.

Is there something about the dress that is only noticeable in a club/dance setting?

If you need to focus on a specific detail, such as a dress, a less "cluttered" scene is usually preferable. "Crowd scenes" -- like Clubs, Malls, sporting events, et al -- aren't scenes that benefit (or benefit from) a lot of specific detail; they require a LOT of description, but very few specific details. Crowd scenes are generally chaotic and fragmented in real life in a way that is difficult to convey with just words.

So if it is the dress that primarily motivates the club scene, perhaps more detail before the Club scene (or after the club scene) -- when they meet for their date, for example.

If the dress is important for it's effect on club goers, or the effect its exhibitionist properties have on the wearer's libido, then you're stuck with making a club scene work.

What kind of POV are you using? Perhaps a shift in POV will make the scene work better? (Or just a shift in the focus of an omniscient third person narrator.)

 

[emap]

Great discussion, though methinks some are thinking to much.

Here is how I would do a club scene if all I want to do is get to the sex and still set a sort of mood.

The smoke drafts past us as we walk into the club, the strong aroma of cigarrettes and alchohol are battling with the scent of overheated people dancing madly to the hot beat drowning out any conversation. He pulls ahead of me dragging me toward the dance area, I take a moment to admire the tight jeans hugging his butt, the way his shirt is tucked into his jeans but poofed just so.

Then I am in his arms, and we are moving together to the music, the others move aside to give us room out of instinct. We are moving together liquidly, at first pressed together, then drawn apart before I find myself swirled back into his arms. Each outstretch of our arms I can see his eyes traveling over my body, searching out the spots of skin exposed by my short skirt above my deep dark red spanish lace stockings. Not sure which song but his eyes traveled upwards to my breasts, darting to and fro trying to get a glimpse of the skin teasingly revealed by my loose open top. When he starts dancing close to me at a slow song, his hardness pressed right into my stomach, robbing me of reason and breath, I could not stand it any longer, I lean in to whisper in his ear that we have to leave now before I strip us both right there and ride him for as long as it takes.

There, see the trick to setting a scene without going overboard on details is to simply bypass most yet still set the reader into the mindset of club, people dancing, and loud music, otherwise you just have two people dancing who are really hot for each other. Usually the best way is to focus on the two characters who are vital to later or the moment, and kinda breeze over everything else.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm reading Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings' first novel, SOUTH MOON UNDER. She wrote it in 1933, so there isnt any sex in it; but there is a fair amount of sexual tension between some of the characters.

More to the point, Rawlings was a champion of scene setting, and she did it well. Her struggle with this particular book is chronicled in the letters she and Maxwell Perkins (her editor) exchanged while she was writing the book. The book is about poor people trying to make a living during the Depression, so she works in the clothing and linens, etc. to illustrate poverty.

 

[gauchecritic]

I've just been re-reading my story Thunder Follows Lightning which starts (well doesn't start but the main part starts) in a nightclub to see how I handled it. It seems that I didn't handle it at all.

I could picture the scene, but I think that's probably because I wrote it and had it pictured in my head as I wrote. Apart from some reference to music and people drinking, it could have been anywhere.

But I had a hook, almost the entire point of the story as it happens, the female protag at the nightclub is deaf and she dances to her own music.

So what little advice I thought I might be able to pass on is non-existent. The setting was very much background to what the characters are doing. I have a dance floor, people dancing, people chatting up other people and records being played, but very little set description.

The clothes that the protag is wearing are mentioned only in that her shirt was wet and made of cheesecloth.

I think I agree with what someone else said, a short story doesn't require large amounts of setting, only setting up.

 

[cantdog]

My nightclub scene in Jip has them meeting there, though they know each other from school already. I sketch the place really sparely, now that I look at it. She isn't dancing, she pans the crowd, but the second scene she sees is Jip smiling at her. I describe the street outside the nightclub a lot more thoroughly, but even then, maybe two sentences and a couple phrases. Nobody could describe the Keshava Ballroom, having read my story.

Dancing. Dancing is kinesthetic, primarily. That's what makes ballet seem so stilted and refined. Ballet is about seeing dancing, whereas dancing is play with the sixth sense, kinesthesia. It's about moving. That's what makes it such great foreplay. It brings the body the the front burner of awareness. Jip and Kitti dance, but the references are sparse.

Evoke, don't describe.

 

[3113]

Dancing or the Dress?

Then I am in his arms, and we are moving together to the music, the others move aside to give us room out of instinct. We are moving together liquidly

But I had a hook, almost the entire point of the story as it happens, the female protag at the nightclub is deaf and she dances to her own music.

Dancing. Dancing is kinesthetic, primarily.

I think you've all made an important point. The one question here is what is the focus? If one is going to detail the events at a nightclub, then dancing and music needs to be the focus, essential to the characters, to their sexual connection, to the story.

If the dress the character is wearing is important, if showing off that dress is the primary reason for going to a nightclub, than details need not be mentioned, just what male character thinks of female character when he sees her in that dress--whirlwind summary of the evening with a few details on how the dress keeps catching his eye...or revealing things his eye wants to see: how it shows off her breasts as she leans across the table at dinner, how it accents her ass when she strides ahead of him as he opens doors, how it caresses her thighs as it swirls on the dance floor. Those are the only details needed. Fast forward to where he gets her out of that dress.

Details of the nightclub, however, are important if dancing and the nightclub scene are important to the characters and the story. If dancing is what gets them hot and bothered...not just that dress

 

[Stella_Omega]

You guys are writing Bonnie's story for her!

I think that what it all boils down to-- and I think it's true in another recent thread as well-- is that "Show don't tell" is quite overrated in amateur writing. there are most definitely times when telling, in one sentence, is better than taking three paragraphs to show.

 

[Bonniehart]

Well, the story is written and submitted - so I'll just have to let the chips fall where they may now.

The feedback helped a lot. While it's interesting to me what happened in the nightclub, it really didn't advance the story much, so I cut most of it out. Truthfully, it's still a little clumsy - but hey, I'm a newbie writer and I'm hoping folks will be kind.

When its approved, should I post a link in this thread so the people who helped me can see what I came up with? Or is it more appropriate to post in the "Feedback" section.

Thanks

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, the story is written and submitted - so I'll just have to let the chips fall where they may now.

The feedback helped a lot. While it's interesting to me what happened in the nightclub, it really didn't advance the story much, so I cut most of it out. Truthfully, it's still a little clumsy - but hey, I'm a newbie writer and I'm hoping folks will be kind.

When its approved, should I post a link in this thread so the people who helped me can see what I came up with? Or is it more appropriate to post in the "Feedback" section.

Thanks

Put it in feedback-- but update here to say that you have, how's that?

I like yourobservation; "it was interesting to me but I cut it."

I do that a LOT. I think that even though it doesn't get used in the final cut, it's very he;pful to the writer, making the personalities and actions that much more immediate.