Pushing...

[lily_pond]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I need to add also

Open and honest discussion, is good for ALL manner of ailments. Please keep us posted as to how your relationship grows even STRONGER, as you pursue your journey lily.

Dear Sir,

I promise to keep everyone posted. I will work hard & pray that this relationship grows stronger; for that is all have done from day one.

Master & me have been through hell & back I can only pray that we can get through this time.

Be well & safe Sir; once again thank you for your words.

respectfully,

lily

 

[lily_pond]

i have seen your tears...i have seen your pain...i have seen your frustration...i have seen your persistance, and i have seen your compliance when one thing after another seems to come up and prevents you that which you need in a relationship, lily...but from all that i have read and watched and in parts experienced myself, being a Dom is a big responsibility...and with all that continues to build and add constantly to His stress, perhaps He is not suited for that responsibility at this time...your needs are important and are not being met...have not been met for many months now...and i don't think there is anything at all wrong with you being concerned about yourself and your well being when your Master is otherwise occupied with His own life more than He is with the relationship that you share...

one is willing to give everything and One is not able or willing to give even a fraction...(sighs)

i wish you happiness, my lily...i wish i could help in some way...

belle

My dearest belle sis,

You are helping me there is no doubts about it. I love you & thank you for opening a new door for me.

Be well & safe my sister


lily

 

[MsWorthy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I need to add also

~This post is not aimed at Lily. It is my opinion regarding the reality of a d/s relationship.~

I think that Art and Dixi have given excellent advice and offered good insight into a committed d/s lifestyle relationship. (based on my standards, of course)

Dixi, if you don't mind, I will use your post to explain my opinion.

. . .
I know when my Master is quiet it is better to let him have his time to get in the right frame of mind. It doesn't mean he loves me any less, or that I please him less...just that he needs time to himself to unwind.

Unless we are talking about a bdsm relationship that is a playstyle only (dominance and submission "just" in the bedroom), this is what d/s is about, putting your dom/me's desires before your own. If she/he is "not in the mood," tired, stressed, vulnerable, angry, or just not up to your standards of "domliness", your job as a submissive is to support her/him and wait until your Dom/me can give you what you want/need again. Pushing, pulling, manipulating, or in any other way insisting that your partner put aside her/his worries/desires and attend to what you want is, in my opinion, topping from the bottom.

Now that I have people angry with me , let me ask what you (general you) think d/s is about. Is the dom/me a giver and a sub is the receiver? Is a dominant's 'job' to please you, make you happy, give you everything you want, drop what she/he is doing when you want attention? Wouldn't this mean that the sub is in control, not the dom/me? Isn't dominance about having control/being the one who decides what, when, where, and how much? Are you willing to put aside what you want until your partner is able/ready to give you what you want?

I also believe that you have to take what he tells you at face value....if he says you are important to him...you must believe him or else why stay with him? We have to understand that the outside things in life can interrupt what we feel we need.

Unless you are able to stay home and make your relationship your only priority, you will have issues that come up that take your attention away from the relationship, temporarily. That is just life. There will be times when each of you will need/want different things at the same time. Just as, with this example, a dom needs to concentrate on his PhD/thesis and a sub needs attention. When this occurs, one of you will have to wait to get his/her needs met. Who do you think should wait?

I may be alone in this opinion, but in my opinion, it is easily the sub who waits. This is the trade-off that makes being dominant worth the effort. If it's a tie (each need/desire is of equal importance), my (the dominant's) desire comes first.

Your Master is working hard toward a goal he has set for himself... he needs your support and understanding, just as much as you need his.
. . .

This is more than a tie, in my opinion, his need "wins". I am not saying that your need for attention is unimportant. It isn't, by any means, but the issue needing his attention is temporary, vastly important, and time constrained. He cannot just put it aside and give you the attention you want. There is some sort of time limit (even if self-imposed because he is time/goal oriented). Your desire for attention can be met at any time.

This issue illustrates why I strongly believe that a submissive must need to submit/support/nurture. If pleasing her partner and working to make her/his life easier isn't what makes her happy, she will become dissatisfied in a d/s lifestyle relationship.

I don't know the particulars of Lily's relationship, so this post is not aimed at her. I have used the thread to offer my opinion on why so many d/s lifestyle relationships fail, and why I think they fail.

~thickening my skin in preparation for the attacks to come~

 

[Ebonyfire]

When there is a need to talk

I deal with males, so from my prospective, when they have a need to talk, I usually am in a frame of mind to listen, because they ask very respectfully, and at a convenient time for Me.

Eb

 

[artful]

MzW

"Excellent"

 

[Dr. B Evil]

As...

...a switch bordering on sub I have to opine that communication is a very valuable and necessary tool.

Pushing is one thing, but I'd never shove a Dom.

 

[Shadowsdream]

lily_pond

I am a very Dominating Domme living in a 24/7 TPE lifestyle. There are times when outside stresses take precedence over My desire or ability to give My toy the kind of reassurance he needs or desires.

It is hell for him and I know that he questions his worth and at these times when I need the extra pressure like I need another hole in My head he pushes the most. Actually it is the only time he pushes Me gently. Tries to make Me laugh, offers extra submission..anything he can do to please Me.

I feel an invasion of My Domme space and it causes Me to back away from My natural desire to get past what is happening in the moment. There are times when We Dom/mes just need to work things out alone. It is no reflection on the submissive at all.

It is possible your Dom will come back to Domination much quicker if He feels that He is not under an obligation to do so.

I can see that it is not your intent to cause an obligation..But intent is not always what shows.

I wish you and your Master all the happyness and the best resolution for you both.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I need to add also

~I think that Art and Dixi have given excellent advice and offered good insight into a committed d/s lifestyle relationship. (based on my standards, of course)

Dixi, if you don't mind, I will use your post to explain my opinion.

MsW - I don't mind at all. You did a wonderful job of further explaining what I was trying to say. Thank you.


dixi

 

[WillowPuss]

Robuck and I revisited this thread this morning, talking about the posts as we went.


He reminded me of the time when our children were small (2 and newborn) and he was studying for his degree. He did this part-time, after we married ... at my encouragement. He said he would never have completed it if I hadn't been there supporting him throughout.

I said that I hadn't done very much to help - and he pointed out that I made sure the house was quiet for him to study (taking the children out, keeping them entertained etc) and took many other pressures off him.

I had done this without thinking.


I suppose what I am trying to say is - at times like this, the last thing anyone (but especially a Dom/me) wants/needs is more pressure put on them.

 

[lily_pond]

Update

Hello everyone,

Thank you for all your replies to my questions. I have taken every thing said with an openand mind. I am grateful for your honest words and hope to have more feed back from others here. I wish to grow and learn as a submissive but also as the woman that I am.

In this past week my thought were of His distance and how we only spoke a few words Tuesday eve. I worry for Him very much so. For the rest of the week no words were spoken for I was giving my Master time to Himself. Many thoughts crossed my mind and my closet friends know of these thoughts. I thank them for their encouraging words.

I have visited with my Master and asked if I push Him in any way. Though I feel I do, He feels that I do not push at all. He is appreciative that I have been here to support Him in His journey and have been able to comfort Him in His time of need. Also asked the question: “Master, do I make you happy?” A question that I had no need to ask of Him for I do make Him happy. As He as told me so.

I understand that a PhD is not easy to come by. It’s a lot of hard work and takes a lot of time. I, work in higher education, know of the struggles and roadblocks one can run into while on their journey to achieving excellences.

I will be supportive, as I have always been, in every way for my Master for His happiness & well-being are mine also.

Once again thank you all from the bottom of this girl’s heart.

Be well & safe respectfully,

lily

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: Update

Lily, Thank you for the update. I'm glad things are going alright for you. Also totally agree with your statement...

"I will be supportive, as I have always been, in every way for my Master for His happiness & well-being are mine also."

This is great, and I know I feel the same about my Master.

Keep up the good work.
dixi

 

[Soron]

Needs

lily, everyone has needs. If he is indeed your Master then he is responsible for your well being. A Master/submissive relationship cannot be a one way street. I don't know either of you but I can say from experience that if the lines of communication are not kept open, then the relationship will sooner or later fizzle and die.
You should not have to push for things you need. You should merely be able to communicate these needs to him and get a reaction one way or another.
I don't mean to say he should coddle you. But, he is responsible for your guidance and your well being and if he cannot for whatever reason fulfill these responsiblities then he needs to set you free to give yourself to someone who can.

 

[cymbidia]

Re: Needs

You should not have to push for things you need. You should merely be able to communicate these needs to him and get a reaction one way or another.

No one should not have to push for what one needs, lily. However, in truth, we all do it. Every single submissive pushes, or does what we feel is a bit of pushing, on occasion.

We often do it cuz we're scared that they don't see us - and we can't ask outright because we're scared.

Frank Herbert wrote a book a long time ago, as these things are reckoned, a science fiction book entitled Dune. It was a very good book in and of itself but contained a bit of wisdom, a chant, and a charm, to ward off fear that has stuck with me for all these years. I say it to myself on occasion, and try to remember it when i'm feeling naked and vulnerable and exposed - and as if my dominant doesn't see me anymore.

I will not fear
Fear is the mindkiller,
Fear is the little death
That brings total Oblivion
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me
And where it has gone
I will turn the inner eye
Nothing will be there
Only I will remain

For those of us on the sometimes-hard road of submission, the litany against fear can be of help when the walls close in and all we can see, all we can feel, is the despair closing over us.

Then i chant inside the vastness of my own thoughts:
Fear is the mindkiller.
Fear is the little death.
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me.

I go back to what i know is true.
I know he wants me because he told me that yesterday.
And i stay there. I stay there because it is where i know there's truth. I stay there because he put me there. I stay there because if i move, i will fall into despair and doubt again. I stay there until it's safe for me to move on.

Being sub requires immense amounts of trust and an iron determination to believe.

We can ask for reassurance. We can doubt and shake with pain and ache with need - and we can ask for help with those things.

On occasion, we will not get what we think we need right then.
Such is the way of all human relationships.
Our dominants deserve our trust, and not only when they've got a flogger in their hand and are ready to deliver some wonderful sensation.

Try not to push.
Instead, think deeply about what you need that you're not getting, and so you're pushing instead. Then ask straightforwardly for what you need. If you get it, fine. If it cannot be given to you right then, such is life. Repeat the litany against fear and find the place of truth to hang for a while.

If, however, you needs are consistently overlooked or pushed off or not met, then more focused and concentrated thought should go into whether the match is a good one. Perhaps you don't fit his needs and he doesn't fit yours as well as you'd both thought and hoped. That happens.




And might i add, Soron, that it's very good to see you again round here.

 

[Soron]

Re: Re: Needs

No one should not have to push for what one needs, lily. However, in truth, we all do it. Every single submissive pushes, or does what we feel is a bit of pushing, on occasion.

We often do it cuz we're scared that they don't see us - and we can't ask outright because we're scared.

Frank Herbert wrote a book a long time ago, as these things are reckoned, a science fiction book entitled Dune. It was a very good book in and of itself but contained a bit of wisdom, a chant, and a charm, to ward off fear that has stuck with me for all these years. I say it to myself on occasion, and try to remember it when i'm feeling naked and vulnerable and exposed - and as if my dominant doesn't see me anymore.

I will not fear
Fear is the mindkiller,
Fear is the little death
That brings total Oblivion
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me
And where it has gone
I will turn the inner eye
Nothing will be there
Only I will remain

For those of us on the sometimes-hard road of submission, the litany against fear can be of help when the walls close in and all we can see, all we can feel, is the despair closing over us.

Then i chant inside the vastness of my own thoughts:
Fear is the mindkiller.
Fear is the little death.
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me.

I go back to what i know is true.
I know he wants me because he told me that yesterday.
And i stay there. I stay there because it is where i know there's truth. I stay there because he put me there. I stay there because if i move, i will fall into despair and doubt again. I stay there until it's safe for me to move on.

Being sub requires immense amounts of trust and an iron determination to believe.

We can ask for reassurance. We can doubt and shake with pain and ache with need - and we can ask for help with those things.

On occasion, we will not get what we think we need right then.
Such is the way of all human relationships.
Our dominants deserve our trust, and not only when they've got a flogger in their hand and are ready to deliver some wonderful sensation.

Try not to push.
Instead, think deeply about what you need that you're not getting, and so you're pushing instead. Then ask straightforwardly for what you need. If you get it, fine. If it cannot be given to you right then, such is life. Repeat the litany against fear and find the place of truth to hang for a while.

If, however, you needs are consistently overlooked or pushed off or not met, then more focused and concentrated thought should go into whether the match is a good one. Perhaps you don't fit his needs and he doesn't fit yours as well as you'd both thought and hoped. That happens.




And might i add, Soron, that it's very good to see you again round here.

cym, you are so much more eloquent than I. I know that lily's needs are not being consistently met. I know as a Dominant I too have to step back sometimes and have my own space. Time to clear my head, time to relieve the stress of everyday life.
My problem with this situation is that it hasn't gone on for a few days, or even a few weeks but a few months now. I know it can be hard to focus when real life situations get hold of you. I think the time has come for more concentrated focus and effort. My question does he realize this a well.

thank you for the welcome back cym. I feel like I'm home again.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Needs

lily, everyone has needs. If he is indeed your Master then he is responsible for your well being. A Master/submissive relationship cannot be a one way street. I don't know either of you but I can say from experience that if the lines of communication are not kept open, then the relationship will sooner or later fizzle and die.
You should not have to push for things you need. You should merely be able to communicate these needs to him and get a reaction one way or another.
I don't mean to say he should coddle you. But, he is responsible for your guidance and your well being and if he cannot for whatever reason fulfill these responsiblities then he needs to set you free to give yourself to someone who can.

_______________________________________
I have to admit that after reading MsWorthy's post I felt it to be a little one-sided in favor of the Dom/me (sorry hun) just speaking truthfully..however I do agree with several factors that she posted..
I do feel that it is my duty ,my honor,my very REAL need to take care of my Master,as a submisive slave ,His needs ARE supposed to always come before mine..however what frustrates the hell outta me sometimes is when there is a lack of communication between us..
If I happen to disagree,or voice my feelings on a differing viewpoint than my Master's,He will sometimes take it that I am "pushing"or trying to "sway Him" or "force" Him to believe as I do..I would like to say that noone forces a person to believe or feel as they do..It is a very conscience choice,made only by the person ,who is 100% responsible for their own actions and belief system..
I CAN be a Stubborn' woman,hell yes I can,but I feel I have a very soft,sensitive ,yielding heart also..yes,I have 'NEEDS'and lots of them lol
However if I feel I cannot get them heard because of "fear' that my Master may "take it the wrong way" then am I to suffer in silence"?who is THAT gonna benefit?? Master ,sometimes has NO recourse with me than to simply leave me alone to think..
I do in some ways appreciate that,however He knows how much I hate it and just rebel like a stubborn child..
when I am left 'alone' my anger builds and since NOONE is around to help me with the Control,I once again take the control back that I so freely and lovingly gave up to Him..
sometimes His answer is to "just submit" but sometimes I just want to ask Him "just Control' me ,help me,be patient,love me,guide me,nurture "us'..it is His strength I crave for,His strength I need,His dominance I MUST have..for I feel the urge for it with every fiber of my being,yet when he says to me "I will not argue" ...I feel so lost,confused,hurt and angry all over..it's a vicious cycle..one I am praying that Our Love and respect for each other will help US to win..thank-you for the posts Cym,and esp Soron,for that is EXACTLY how I feel,"afraid'..I seek to please Him,yet I also need Him to "hear" my needs ..
Please do ot think by this post that He does Not meet them,for He does more times than Not..however It is a constant "struggle' for me to NOT" Top from the bottom"(I HATE) that word!!..and I hope I learn to be more pleasing and not such a little stubborn child..I want to be the "WOMAN" my Master loves deserves and needs..thank-you..

 

[MsWorthy]

Re: Re: Needs

_______________________________________
I have to admit that after reading MsWorthy's post I felt it to be a little one-sided in favor of the Dom/me (sorry hun) just speaking truthfully..however I do agree with several factors that she posted..

No need to apologize, hon. I will naturally see it from my point of view (dominant) just as you will naturally see it from yours (submissive). ~smiles~

I do, however, see Soron's point. If you feel (dom/me or sub) that your needs are not being met for months something is wrong and it needs to be addressed. I think, sometimes, we so much want the relationship to be the right one, this partner to be best one that we let things go when we shouldn't.

It is so difficult to know where the line is - it seems to move. Is this just temporary? Are my needs normally met? Is this an isolated incident? Am I happy and satisfied in most other areas of our life together? This is especially difficult in a new relationship. Everything is so new and untried.

What I can offer is this: it gets easier the longer you are together. The line becomes clearer and moves less often. When you are with someone whom you know is compatible with/right for you (and this does take time, there is no easy, fast way to know) it isn't too much work. It doesn't hurt too much. It is easier to bear because you know your value in your relationship. You know that your sacrifice is appreciated and you will be cherished more for making it.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Needs

No need to apologize, hon. I will naturally see it from my point of view (dominant) just as you will naturally see it from yours (submissive). ~smiles~

I do, however, see Soron's point. If you feel (dom/me or sub) that your needs are not being met for months something is wrong and it needs to be addressed. I think, sometimes, we so much want the relationship to be the right one, this partner to be best one that we let things go when we shouldn't.

It is so difficult to know where the line is - it seems to move. Is this just temporary? Are my needs normally met? Is this an isolated incident? Am I happy and satisfied in most other areas of our life together? This is especially difficult in a new relationship. Everything is so new and untried.

What I can offer is this: it gets easier the longer you are together. The line becomes clearer and moves less often. When you are with someone whom you know is compatible with/right for you (and this does take time, there is no easy, fast way to know) it isn't too much work. It doesn't hurt too much. It is easier to bear because you know your value in your relationship. You know that your sacrifice is appreciated and you will be cherished more for making it.

thank-you for the lovely post MSw..again..You are correct,,i just get way too much in a hurry and expect istant gratification,
Artful and I ARE COMMITTED 100% EACH TO THE OTHER ..so ot gonna let it worry me..

 

[MsWorthy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Needs

thank-you for the lovely post MSw..again..You are correct,,i just get way too much in a hurry and expect istant gratification,
Artful and I ARE COMMITTED 100% EACH TO THE OTHER ..so ot gonna let it worry me..

Good for you, hon. I know it is difficult. Especially coming into this lifestyle brand-spanking-new (for the first time is what I mean) ~smiles~

And I know that you know there is no way to tell if it will last, if it will grow, if he will be the one....we just hope...and pray....that it will.

You can't second guess yourself. There is no way to know for sure. All you can do (and this is what I recommend and what I did) is to *act* as though it is the one. Put all you have into it! I know the risk of being wrong/pain is high. But, you know what, it will hurt anyway if he isn't the one. Even if you don't put all of yourself into it and it doesn't work out, you still hurt. So, really, you have nothing to lose. If it feels good, go for it. Put everything you have into it; then you have no regrets. You can never say, "I didn't try hard enough," because you know you did.

The only thing I can not live with is regret. Because I can't try again, no matter how much I want to, I can't try again - the chance is gone, forever.

 

[Guest]

I am happy to see that everyone here is trying to help my sister out. I wanted to share some words that I read from her journal. Don't think I went snooping cause I didn't lily keeps an online journal of her life for her brothers to read.

Please understand that lily has struggled for many months with her Master. She has been blinded by love and someone needs to wake her up. I have told her that it is time for her to let go, but you know sisters can be very stubborn. She has been full of tears and unhappiness those you cannot see but I see her daily and her sweet submissive spirit is dying.

Here are her words from her journal:

her eyes are no longer
her tears are blood red
her soul is wrapped in darkness
her heart no longer beats

Once upon a time

she laughed
she smiled
she bloomed

Now…

her eyes are no longer
her laugh is not heard
her smile has faded
her soul has dwindled away

If you see her tell…

you will laugh
you will smile
you will bloom once again
For you little one are loved

Thank you all once again for trying to help my sister.

Regards,

Detective, lily's brother

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Needs

Good for you, hon. I know it is difficult. Especially coming into this lifestyle brand-spanking-new (for the first time is what I mean) ~smiles~

And I know that you know there is no way to tell if it will last, if it will grow, if he will be the one....we just hope...and pray....that it will.

You can't second guess yourself. There is no way to know for sure. All you can do (and this is what I recommend and what I did) is to *act* as though it is the one. Put all you have into it! I know the risk of being wrong/pain is high. But, you know what, it will hurt anyway if he isn't the one. Even if you don't put all of yourself into it and it doesn't work out, you still hurt. So, really, you have nothing to lose. If it feels good, go for it. Put everything you have into it; then you have no regrets. You can never say, "I didn't try hard enough," because you know you did.

The only thing I can not live with is regret. Because I can't try again, no matter how much I want to, I can't try again - the chance is gone, forever.

______________________
once again,great advice from a great Lady..in my heart I KNOW Artful IS the one..He is my *IT* period..I can and will and have been dedicating 100% to Our relationship..ther absolute ONLY people who get MORE of me are my children ,as it should be and as we BOTH want it..it Does Feel good ,very very good but more importantly at least to me MsW..It Feels *RIGHT*