"pushing the envelope"

[riverofshudder]

I've seen the term "pushing the envelope" come up often in many BDSM related communities/msgs brds/scenes I've travelled in and out of over the years. I've always wondered what that actually means to a Dominant/submissive, Master/slave, Top/bottom, couple or individual. I understand that it will be different for every D/s, M/s, T/b and is based around each other's limits (no?). But I'm curious if people mostly use it rhetorically or actually put some thought behind what "pushing the envelope" actually means to them and/or their "other"....

Is "pushing the envelope" something mental, physical or other to you and/or what is it in reality?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I've seen the term "pushing the envelope" come up often in many BDSM related communities/msgs brds/scenes I've travelled in and out of over the years. I've always wondered what that actually means to a Dominant/submissive, Master/slave, Top/bottom, couple or individual. I understand that it will be different for every D/s, M/s, T/b and is based around each other's limits (no?). But I'm curious if people mostly use it rhetorically or actually put some thought behind what "pushing the envelope" actually means to them and/or their "other"....

Is "pushing the envelope" something mental, physical or other to you and/or what is it in reality?

hello riverofshudder

To me it would simply mean testing boundaries in a provocative manner ,there would be as many reasons to do this as practioners of the craft ....smiles.

No mood for essays here today I'll leave that for the wordy wordsmiths

 

[riverofshudder]

hello riverofshudder

To me it would simply mean testing boundaries in a provocative manner ,there would be as many reasons to do this as practioners of the craft ....smiles.

No mood for essays here today I'll leave that for the wordy wordsmiths

Hello back to you....

I'm clear that it means testing boundaries and the like. What I'm curious to see (know) is just what does that mean for people/couples here? Just what things specifcally do you consider pushing boundaries or "the envelope" for yourself/relationship?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Hello back to you....

I'm clear that it means testing boundaries and the like. What I'm curious to see (know) is just what does that mean for people/couples here? Just what things specifcally do you consider pushing boundaries or "the envelope" for yourself/relationship?

ohhh apologies .........not me.....perfectly compliant at all times ask anyone

 

[riverofshudder]

ohhh apologies .........not me.....perfectly compliant at all times ask anyone

haha.

 

[pandoravampire]

We are a D/s couple, me being the submissive.
For us, pushing the envelope means testing and pushing into areas, that are either unknown to us, or identified as a difficult area. A soft limit.
It provides me with growth. And him also.
This week, we have been pushing the envelope with fire. A area of play that im very attracted to, but shit scared of. Also with how much i can take in the form of pain. He's paid attention to the build up part, pushing his knowledge envelope, ive gone futher in response to a change in his technique for me.
Another form of pushing his envelope that i enjoyed doing was when he was inscting me to say take his golden shower over my body, when he got to near my face, which i found difficult (pushing my envelope a little) i opened my mouth and drank, which i can assure you pushed his! lol

We push envelopes to develop growth, keep us on our toes, to explore and develope that what we share.
None of this would be possible without trust and communication between us. Especially afterward. Especially when trying new things. I dont know how im going to react. He doesnt know either how he will react. We learn as we go, with little baby steps and the occasional leap of faith.
Id be far more inclined to have my envelope pushed by someone i trusted, and not really by a casual partner. That's just me though.

 

[riverofshudder]

We are a D/s couple, me being the submissive.
For us, pushing the envelope means testing and pushing into areas, that are either unknown to us, or identified as a difficult area. A soft limit.
It provides me with growth. And him also.
This week, we have been pushing the envelope with fire. A area of play that im very attracted to, but shit scared of. Also with how much i can take in the form of pain. He's paid attention to the build up part, pushing his knowledge envelope, ive gone futher in response to a change in his technique for me.
Another form of pushing his envelope that i enjoyed doing was when he was inscting me to say take his golden shower over my body, when he got to near my face, which i found difficult (pushing my envelope a little) i opened my mouth and drank, which i can assure you pushed his! lol

We push envelopes to develop growth, keep us on our toes, to explore and develope that what we share.
None of this would be possible without trust and communication between us. Especially afterward. Especially when trying new things. I dont know how im going to react. He doesnt know either how he will react. We learn as we go, with little baby steps and the occasional leap of faith.
Id be far more inclined to have my envelope pushed by someone i trusted, and not really by a casual partner. That's just me though.

Wonderful and thank you for being so open. That is just what I was asking. It's interesting to hear about the give and take between both of you as well as the hearty foundation of trust and communication...something I find very vital to a D/s relationship and make a point to train into my sub early on.

It's also interesting to hear what someone defines as their limits in this context....thank you again.

 

[alice_underneath]

I've seen the term "pushing the envelope" come up often in many BDSM related communities/msgs brds/scenes I've travelled in and out of over the years. I've always wondered what that actually means to a Dominant/submissive, Master/slave, Top/bottom, couple or individual. I understand that it will be different for every D/s, M/s, T/b and is based around each other's limits (no?). But I'm curious if people mostly use it rhetorically or actually put some thought behind what "pushing the envelope" actually means to them and/or their "other"....

Is "pushing the envelope" something mental, physical or other to you and/or what is it in reality?

I am the s in a D/s marriage. The D/s aspect is measured in months, the marriage in years. Neither of us is interested in sadomasochistic play.

For us, D/s applies in the bedroom and some (but not all) non-bedroom aspects of our married life. Pushing the envelope occurs when he wants to be obeyed outside a clearly delineated D/s zone.

Sometimes this happens because the lines between zones, no matter how clearly drawn in principle, become blurry in real life practice. Other times this happens because he likes the challenge, and feels a different kind of erotic power and/or pride in leadership when I obey even though I don't have to.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think one of the reasons we were attracted to each other was because we identified the need to be challenged regularly, to push the envelope. We were not interested in making a list of limits which we were going to stick to no matter what, instead making a list of limits we knew would likely be pushed through at some point. For us it has been an interesting journey, not always easy, but never boring. It helps us to grow as individuals as well as a Master/slave couple.

We do our best to get reliable information on what we are planning to try, but are not likely to enrol in classes and workshops for anything and everything, nor do we feel we are incapable of doing something without someone directly instructing us, or doing it for us first as a sort of demonstration. So far that has stood us in good stead with what we have tried, even piercing and branding which are activites often considered hands off unless you have someone experienced there showing you or doing it for you. For us part of the journey is doing these things as a couple, not bringing in someone we have no connection to and letting them perform what for us is something deeply meaningful and emotional. He is a wonder at getting me through the more scary moments, talking me through my fear, soothing any frayed edges afterward, and showing me his love and faith in me to meet his challenges.

Catalina

 

[SouthernDom]

I've seen the term "pushing the envelope" come up often in many BDSM related communities/msgs brds/scenes I've travelled in and out of over the years. I've always wondered what that actually means to a Dominant/submissive, Master/slave, Top/bottom, couple or individual. I understand that it will be different for every D/s, M/s, T/b and is based around each other's limits (no?). But I'm curious if people mostly use it rhetorically or actually put some thought behind what "pushing the envelope" actually means to them and/or their "other"....

Is "pushing the envelope" something mental, physical or other to you and/or what is it in reality?

I think of pushing the envelope as bringing things into play with one's submissive partner things that they have perviously made clear they did'nt have an interest in but at the same time did'nt have a very distinct aversion to either.

Some activites or sensations that have never been experienced before can be perceived as scary,unrewarding or mundane when the submissive partner tries to predict what kind of emotional of physical response they would receive from the activity.

In reality some things must be experienced before a true value judgement can be made......these judgements should also only be made after a significant amout of reflection time has passed.

The feedback received by the Dominant partner then can be used to decide whether or not the activity in question should be taken to a higher level of intensity,toned down somewhat or dropped from the list of possible activities.

However i am not suggesting that anyone.....under any circumstances should breech the hard limits that serve to protect the physical & emotional well-being of their willing submissive partner........merely stating that new experiences & activities are nessecary for personal growth & education within the BDSM lifestyle.

 

[ImSkye]

I am the s in a D/s marriage. The D/s aspect is measured in months, the marriage in years. Neither of us is interested in sadomasochistic play.

For us, D/s applies in the bedroom and some (but not all) non-bedroom aspects of our married life. Pushing the envelope occurs when he wants to be obeyed outside a clearly delineated D/s zone.

Sometimes this happens because the lines between zones, no matter how clearly drawn in principle, become blurry in real life practice. Other times this happens because he likes the challenge, and feels a different kind of erotic power and/or pride in leadership when I obey even though I don't have to.

Our situation is very similar except the D/s aspect has been around much longer and we do have some sadomasochistic play. For a long time when we were around our friends or family we didn't ever cross into our D/s roles but for the last several months he seems to take great pleasure in subtly crossing that line in front of especially our friends. I know that they don't pick up on it but he knows it really takes me outside of my comfort zone and for me personally this is pushing the envelope.

 

[riverofshudder]

Thank you everyone who has responded and those who are considering. This discussion is very enlightening and I am happy to see that most put value in words. Communication is a very powerful component of a D/s relationship to me and words having meaning. Yes, of course, I know they do...sounds silly, right? Well...how often do you hear in vanilla type sexual talk words or phrases like "I want to rock your world..", "I want to take you away." etc, etc...rarely do those terms or words have any real meaning to them other than some cheesy metaphor for "fucking" (or some such thing). More often than not they are said in the spur of the moment or trying to get there (forcing things?) and their meaning is just glazed over.

Actually, I should confess the instigation for this posting in the first place.

My sub and I were having dinner together last week, after we shared a fairly intense scene. We were discussing what had happened and so forth (she is nearing the end of her training) when this couple sat down near us, a couple in their early 20s...college-age sorta-kinda hipsters (this was in "the village" after-all). Anyway, during our conversation we were over-hearing the guy say things like "I'm going to rock your world when we get to your place tonight baby." blah-blah-blah. My sub actually caught it first and raised the issue that that sort of play talk is very very different than the tone or words I use with her, even in a lustful/fun way. That got us talking about the meaning of "words" and the power there-in and how much sexier it would be for that guy to instead say "When we get back to your place baby I am going to fuck your pussy until you can't take anymore.". Those words all carry meanings and the crassness they are used adds some appeal. We both agreed that the girl looked like far too much of a princess to respond to that anyway...

Then a few days later I was browsing these boards and say the term "pushing the envelope" used in a few threads, some BDSM related some in other place...which instigated me to post this thread.

So again, thank you everyone who is participating in this conversation....

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

As I have 'permission' ..........hides the cat

@}-}rebecca-----
aka Princess Rebecca

 

[wrathofkublakhan]

uh ... thinking "outside the box"?

hehe

 

[rosco rathbone]

"riverofshudder"...great name.

If I'm not mistaken, "pushing the envelope" is originally 1950s test-pilot slang and refers to locating the performance limits of a jet plane by doing increasingly audacious stunts with it until it falls from the sky like a brick. Draw BDSM analogy at will.

 

[Netzach]

can I make that my sig?

 

[sphynx's dragon]

I can say that for us, "pushing the envelope" happens in a plethora of ways. Physically and mentally for me. I'm sure more mentally for Her. I am the s in a D/s marriage as well as others who have posted here. She frequently pushes me gently at first to see if I am ready to be lead into a new area. For the past few months we have been seperated by circumstances in our life and will be back together next week. Right now She is in Hawaii and I am in Maryland. She has been directing me in activities for the time we have been seperated and regardless of this I am longing for Her presence. Recently I have been directed to get myself pierced this weekend by a friend. I am only semi-comfortable with piercings and She knows this. She, as always when pushing me, left me an out if I choose to take it. But I won't. Also She has told me to let my friend, who is a piercer, pick where to pierce. This makes me a bit apprehensive, but I'm going to do it. Right now I am having my envelope pushed from a quarter of the way around the globe, physically. She has pushed me mentally as well while we've been seperated. for example, sending me panties to wear when I socialize with others here. This has been most enlightening to me as it has revealed more to my submission to her than I ever expected. I didn't think I'd enjoy some of things She has pushed on me, but I did when I submitted and did them. So now I go into this most recent push and will get my body pierced for the first time (I don't think my ear counts). <shrug> My envelope is more than it was and I can't wait till She can explore me again in person to see what She has uncovered of my love of Her.

 

[Guest]

I've seen the term "pushing the envelope" come up often in many BDSM related communities/msgs brds/scenes I've travelled in and out of over the years. I've always wondered what that actually means to a Dominant/submissive, Master/slave, Top/bottom, couple or individual. I understand that it will be different for every D/s, M/s, T/b and is based around each other's limits (no?). But I'm curious if people mostly use it rhetorically or actually put some thought behind what "pushing the envelope" actually means to them and/or their "other"....

Is "pushing the envelope" something mental, physical or other to you and/or what is it in reality?

Are you familiar with the term "Performance envelope", and what it means??

 

[riverofshudder]

Are you familiar with the term "Performance envelope", and what it means??

Yes, why do you ask?

 

[Guest]

Yes, why do you ask?

*shrug* It's just the analogy du-jour....

The "envelope" we refer to is sometimes the agreed parameters between PYL and pyl...
The "limits".
Or the physical/mental limits of the sub....

 

[riverofshudder]

*shrug* It's just the analogy du-jour....

The "envelope" we refer to is sometimes the agreed parameters between PYL and pyl...
The "limits".
Or the physical/mental limits of the sub....

I'm quite clear as to what it means in general and in this context. My question was posed more to find out if when people in the BDSM world used the term - if they are paying lip service to it or they actual have put some thought behind it. So far it seems most actual do do the later.

 

[dexfantasy]

Hmmm... I think "Pushing the Envelope" is sort of a general phrase that can be applied to pretty much anything were limits are being tested. So yeah, there are a lot of bdsm contexts to which it could be applied. In some cases, I would think you could substitute the bdsm specific phrase "Edge Play" for activities that most would consider dangerous or over the edge.

 

[Guest]

I'm quite clear as to what it means in general and in this context. My question was posed more to find out if when people in the BDSM world used the term - if they are paying lip service to it or they actual have put some thought behind it. So far it seems most actual do do the later.

Ahhh sorry bout that....

Yeah .. Can't speak for everyone else, but if I am going to push a subs limits, I certainly plan it in advance..

Of course the planning phase has a certain inherent pleasure in and of itself.