Puritan element of Literotica

[MaxSebastian]

When did the Puritans take control of this website?

For goodness sake! You can't write a group sex story any more without abuse for threatening the concept of marriage. And in my latest story, the characters aren't even married!

I took a five-year break from writing for personal reasons, and have to say the readership has changed quite dramatically in the intervening time.

If you're not posting stories in the Romance section, do all stories still have to avoid any kind of straying from straight forward one-on-one loveliness? When did the marriage missionaries start trying to bring Literotica writers under the cosh of their own values?

Sorry for the rant, I'm just surprised at the complete lack of support for free speech among the vocal (publicly commenting) element of this website.

 

[Stella_Omega]

dude, your right to free speech is unfettered here. Post what you want. some moron bitching in pixels is just another instance of free speech. He can't delete your story, or muzzle your voice. All he can do is bitch a little bit. And you, in fact, have the power-- and the right-- to delete the morons. Don't hesitate to use it.

 

[topace]

dude, your right to free speech is unfettered here. Post what you want. some moron bitching in pixels is just another instance of free speech. He can't delete your story, or muzzle your voice. All he can do is bitch a little bit. And you, in fact, have the power-- and the right-- to delete the morons. Don't hesitate to use it.

What Stella said!

 

[MaxSebastian]

some moron bitching in pixels is just another instance of free speech.

And that is why I don't delete them (offensive ones aside), but it seems to me that an erotic story website originally intended for people to express fantasies and stories has taken on quite an air of judgement.

Some of these guys are reading hundreds of thousands of words of stories they say they dislike, just to throw stones at the writer's values, rather than storytelling.

I know, there's no answer to it. I'll be quiet.

 

[Stella_Omega]

They are the same people who used to watch every minute of a porn film in order to pass a legal opinion that it should not be seen.

Also-- you removing their comments is ALSO free speech. "free speech means they can say it without being arrested for sedition. It does not mean that they can say it in your living room, for instance. it does not mean that you must not say that you disagree with it. And it certainly doesn't mean that it's worth listening to or preserving.

One of the most important things you can do with YOUR free speech is to object to hateful speech. When you don't, people get the idea that their hate is acceptable. When you do-- they get the idea that it isn't. Letting that crap sit on your stories is the equivalent of not objecting.

 

[emap]

I take a slightly different view on it. Course I haven't gotten feedback about how I'm ruining marriage or whatever. Anyway, the people who are the most vocal and offensive about things are not actually doing anything but belittling themselves.

I get feedback about how I need help with my grammar. Not recently, though I'm not using word anymore, well enough said on that. Anyway, my feedback on grammar and spelling has typos and isn't exactly proper english anyway.

Just in case somebody missed the point, I'm being told to work on my english by a person who needs to do it more than I do. This is the same thing, they get off so strongly to your story they feel guilty about it so they then attack the writer because otherwise they have to look at themselves and their values. Nobody does that anymore it's always someone else fault.

Personally i just leave the moron post up because then others can see just how completely brain dead and fucked up they are. Feedback almost always means they actually read the story and got off to it. Unless it's my western series, there really isn't that great of sex in those, I'm keeping it in the timeline with what is said and how it's put. Oddly nobody seems to care all that much.

 

[RjThoughts]

They are the same people who used to watch every minute of a porn film in order to pass a legal opinion that it should not be seen.

Also-- you removing their comments is ALSO free speech. "free speech means they can say it without being arrested for sedition. It does not mean that they can say it in your living room, for instance. it does not mean that you must not say that you disagree with it. And it certainly doesn't mean that it's worth listening to or preserving.

One of the most important things you can do with YOUR free speech is to object to hateful speech. When you don't, people get the idea that their hate is acceptable. When you do-- they get the idea that it isn't. Letting that crap sit on your stories is the equivalent of not objecting.

You forgot they watch the porn another time, to make sure they didn't miss anything the first time.

 

[PayDay]

When did the Puritans take control of this website?

For goodness sake! You can't write a group sex story any more without abuse for threatening the concept of marriage. And in my latest story, the characters aren't even married!

Do what I do: Pick a fight by writing a story they will have a hard time arguing against; or, write a story so well that other readers tell them to STFU. It doesn't matter anyway. You can write a story about a perfect marriage and still hear complaints like: "They would lose their jobs if they had that much sex."

Someone who applies fiction to reality has a problem with reality, while someone who applies reality to fiction is simply a writer.

I say leave the poor comments (sorry Stella, I have to disagree with you). When you interfere with the negative comments, you lose middle ground, and alter a realistic POV that someone might agree with.

You're not removing poorly written positive comments? Are you?

Not all negative comments are full of shit, and some even carry a grain of appreciation or suggestion hidden within their malice. Plus sometimes negative comments make you laugh at the absurdity.

If you're not posting stories in the Romance section, do all stories still have to avoid any kind of straying from straight forward one-on-one loveliness? When did the marriage missionaries start trying to bring Literotica writers under the cosh of their own values?

What? This paragraph makes about as much sense as a Puritan reading porn. Stella was on it, readers cannot alter your story, nor your ability to write.

 

[3113]

Erase the comments!

you removing their comments is ALSO free speech. "free speech means they can say it without being arrested for sedition. It does not mean that they can say it in your living room, for instance. it does not mean that you must not say that you disagree with it. And it certainly doesn't mean that it's worth listening to or preserving.

I say leave the poor comments (sorry Stella, I have to disagree with you).

I say take 'em down! (Sorry, PayDay, I have to disagree with you and heartily agree with Stella ).

I take such comments down--and I feel not an ounce of regret or wrong in using my delete comment button as if I did several of my gay stories would be marred with some very rude, homophobic comments that wouldn't have served the story, me or my readers.

I delete such comments not only for the reasons Stella names but because I see no reason to ruin the story experience for others; why should those who enjoyed it or who want to leave constructive critiques, waste their time or their opportunity to comment responding to an idiot (as experience has shown they will be tempted to do if I leave the comment up)? My story is not a forum for arguing about such things, it's a place to discuss the story. The idiot can take his/her hot button issues elsewhere if he/she is after ranting, pontificating or getting into arguments. Take it to a real forum like, say, the GB.

In short, if the comment does nothing for my story, nothing for me and nothing for my readers, I see no reason to keep it around. It's like keeping up graffiti that ruins the beauty of a building. I created the building and if the graffiti doesn't enhance it, don't make it more interesting or beautiful, then--for everyone's sake, not just my own--it should be erased.

I've go that right on my story, and I exercise it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I say leave the poor comments (sorry Stella, I have to disagree with you). When you interfere with the negative comments, you lose middle ground, and alter a realistic POV that someone might agree with.

When we are being an author, "middle ground" is not our concern, the comments are not part of our stories-- your story already has a beginning, middle and end. It's not a debate, its a work of fiction.

You're not removing poorly written positive comments? Are you?

Of course not.

Seriously, this site has given us the right to choose which comments we want to stay or go. So we should feel perfectly at ease in using that right.

Not all negative comments are full of shit, and some even carry a grain of appreciation or suggestion hidden within their malice. Plus sometimes negative comments make you laugh at the absurdity.

That is quite true. I have a small file of absurd comments that I treasure-- ones that I left on the story, in fact, until I removed the story.

But that's our right to-- to pick and choose.

 

[MaxSebastian]

I do remove homophobic or offensive comments, but if it's not using foul language and it's not abusive, I'll leave it up even if it's poorly written or saying my story "sucks" because it suggests that in certain circumstances, if the mood is right, and the candles are particularly well positioned, a character might want to have relations with someone they are not married to.

Actually, some of the negative comments encourage readers who have enjoyed the piece to leave counter-feedback, so there is a silver lining sometimes.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

My objection to the removal of comments is that there is no "removed comment" count. I read a story recently that had about 60 all-positive comments. I was puzzled because I thought it wasn't all that great. Now that's just my opinion, but I've seen people criticize better stories than this particular one.

Perhaps there were 100 negative comments (genuine comments, not abuse) and the author simply deleted them all, to make it look like everyone loved his story.

At least if there was something underneath the comments like:

40 comments deleted by the author.

You would then know that some sort of comment editing had taken place, and might mentally balance out the (guessed) contents of them against all the positive ones.

 

[lovecraft68]

Do what I do: Pick a fight by writing a story they will have a hard time arguing against; or, write a story so well that other readers tell them to STFU. It doesn't matter anyway. You can write a story about a perfect marriage and still hear complaints like: "They would lose their jobs if they had that much sex."

Someone who applies fiction to reality has a problem with reality, while someone who applies reality to fiction is simply a writer.

I say leave the poor comments (sorry Stella, I have to disagree with you). When you interfere with the negative comments, you lose middle ground, and alter a realistic POV that someone might agree with.

You're not removing poorly written positive comments? Are you?

Not all negative comments are full of shit, and some even carry a grain of appreciation or suggestion hidden within their malice. Plus sometimes negative comments make you laugh at the absurdity.



What? This paragraph makes about as much sense as a Puritan reading porn. Stella was on it, readers cannot alter your story, nor your ability to write.

I'm in agreement with leaving poor comments. If they come back and see you removed them, then to them they won(what they won, I have no idea, but they feel that way) by leaving it there you're saying, so what? I don't care what you think.

Besides if you leave them there your real fans will usually insult the troll which is pretty funny.

 

[lovecraft68]

My objection to the removal of comments is that there is no "removed comment" count. I read a story recently that had about 60 all-positive comments. I was puzzled because I thought it wasn't all that great. Now that's just my opinion, but I've seen people criticize better stories than this particular one.

Perhaps there were 100 negative comments (genuine comments, not abuse) and the author simply deleted them all, to make it look like everyone loved his story.

At least if there was something underneath the comments like:



You would then know that some sort of comment editing had taken place, and might mentally balance out the (guessed) contents of them against all the positive ones.

I always think that. There is an incest author who gets 100+ comments on all his stories and never a negative. Never.

So I left him one, for the hell of it. It wasn't a "you suck" troll comment, I simply said that the chapter was no where near as good as his previous work.

It was gone within an hour.

I have no respect for an author that wants to maintain the illusion everyone loves them and can't handle any criticism. Having said that, I understand something really vitriolic, but when even constructive critique is removed it tells me a lot about the author.

 

[PayDay]

Of course not..

Nice Well placed.

I'm in agreement with leaving poor comments. If they come back and see you removed them, then to them they won(what they won, I have no idea, but they feel that way) by leaving it there you're saying, so what? I don't care what you think.

Besides if you leave them there your real fans will usually insult the troll which is pretty funny.

There is that, too.

 

[lovecraft68]

Here's my all time fav! Wouldn't dream of removing it, because it made me laugh.

I could just picture this guy whipping through his thesaurus looking for big words.

Such arrogance!

What appalling penmanship! I can only wonder what sort of deluded egotist believes people really want to wade through all that hyperbole, and then struggle through ten pages of stultifyingly pedestrian semi-literacy!

Perhaps most incredible of all... the chapters just go on and on - and on - and on.

Much like an over-flowing drain...

And left by..... yup, you guessed it, any-mouse

 

[3113]

Not a Silver Lining: Sabotage

Actually, some of the negative comments encourage readers who have enjoyed the piece to leave counter-feedback, so there is a silver lining sometimes.

Silver lining?!? Dude! If you let such people use your story to argue morality, then you've been suckered. They've won yet one more soapbox for themselves. A place where they can post their pro-marriage/anti-erotica message and get free advertising because most of those who read your story will also read their preaching. It's like a computer virus attached to an e-mail; your story serves as a vehicle for this message.

And the "sliver lining" to this is that you'll make readers who liked the story feel obligated to enter this argument, thus continuing it and making it even more visible and even more of a win for the person who wanted it front and center? And how does this serve you as comments start to focus on this moral point rather than on the merits of your writing?

You're giving a free forum to someone's moral agenda while sacrificing advertising for yourself and your stories. This isn't a silver-lining, it's self-sabotage. It does nothing to further your story, yourself as an author, or the enjoyment of your readers; all it does is turn YOUR comment page into an argument over morality rather than reasoned discussion of your storytelling.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think anyone touting "morals" on a site like this shouldn't be taken seriously in the first place.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

I simply said that the chapter was no where near as good as his previous work.

My favourite insult is:

This work isn't quite up to your usual standard.

(Similar to yours I know).

The thing is, his "usual standard" could be appalling tripe.

 

[lovecraft68]

My favourite insult is:



(Similar to yours I know).

The thing is, his "usual standard" could be appalling tripe.

Right, and I meant it that way, even with a previous low bar, he couldn't muster up.

I actually never leave negative comments, but after reading some of the story and seeing nothing but over the top glowing praise I just wanted to see what would happen.

 

[3113]

Ratings and Story Feedback Forum

My objection to the removal of comments is that there is no "removed comment" count. I read a story recently that had about 60 all-positive comments. I was puzzled because I thought it wasn't all that great. Now that's just my opinion, but I've seen people criticize better stories than this particular one.

Perhaps there were 100 negative comments (genuine comments, not abuse) and the author simply deleted them all, to make it look like everyone loved his story.

*Shrug* If you did have a counter, it wouldn't tell you anything. What if the story got 100 homophobic, trollish comments? Pointless and rude and rightly erased? Knowing how many comments have been erased isn't the same as knowing what they said or why they were erased.

Granted, the comment page on a story can be like a movie poster, quoting only those comments that the movie makers want seen in order to sell the movie. As everyone knows (or should know) this, it's a good idea to take such comments with a grain of salt if they don't match up to what you read; or if they're all glowing instead of mixed bag--which might suggest that the author is leaving up both the good and the not-so-good.

You, however, do have a way to let your fellow readers know how good a story really is or isn't. First, you can rate it low. A low-rated story with glowing comments certainly makes it clear that this writer can't be trusted to leave up critical commentary. Second there is a: "Story Feedback" forum. Whatever you post there, stays there. So if you find a story to be really bad, but the author has, you suspect, erased any criticism and will likely erase yours if you post it on the comment page, then you can lodge your observations on that forum. Your negative observations will remain, and the author can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Here's my all time fav! Wouldn't dream of removing it, because it made me laugh.

I could just picture this guy whipping through his thesaurus looking for big words.

Such arrogance!

What appalling penmanship! I can only wonder what sort of deluded egotist believes people really want to wade through all that hyperbole, and then struggle through ten pages of stultifyingly pedestrian semi-literacy!

Perhaps most incredible of all... the chapters just go on and on - and on - and on.

Much like an over-flowing drain...

And left by..... yup, you guessed it, any-mouse

It was probably E.L. James. She knows what you've said about her-- and she's coming after you.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

I've been lucky enough not to get any ugly comments on my stories, though I have seen readers get very upset at promiscuity--if it's a woman who has sex with more than one guy over the course of a story. It would appear that a male character can sleep around all he wants and it's no issue, and a woman can hook up with as many other women as she wants and that's fine, but anytime a woman has more than one male partner, she's clearly a detestable whore.

I do not understand why people with such opinions read stories on Literotica, unless it's out of that kind of self-loathing that makes people masturbate furiously while they stew in their anger.

I've gotten one or two that have been pretty negative (one was clearly sour grapes over my sole contest win, given its lack of actual content), but I have left them up. People are entitled to their opinions, and honestly you have to remember that sometimes angry reactions are just tactless critiques. Sometimes that thing that rubbed a reader the wrong way is really a matter of the writer not articulating him/herself correctly, and it's worth considering.

But when it's abusive or hateful? Yeah. Delete 'em. The trolls DON'T win when their comments are deleted, because in the end that means fewer people see said comments.

 

[Stella_Omega]

...anytime a woman has more than one male partner, she's clearly a detestable whore.

She's on the verge of telling one or more of them that they are not the king of love in the sack.

OhhhhGhawd the horror and sorrow of it all!

 

[lovecraft68]

It was probably E.L. James. She knows what you've said about her-- and she's coming after you.

Ohh one on one with E.L James?

I may not have a "Red room of pain", but I have a 3 foot black dowel named Abaddon, that I would love to bring out of retirement.

And she will be crying out the words Pussy and Cunt until she's hoarse.