Punishment question

[rexfelis]

I've got about a year of experience in expressing my dominance with a submissive woman, and I'm very aware how much I have left to learn before I will feel that I am experienced, so I have a question about punishment. I would love to hear from all sides.

In my relationship with my submissive, I have given careful consideration to when, what and how much punishment to use because I know that punishment, especially in the beginning, is a defining experience. I know that punishment must be punishment if it is to be effective, and not something the sub enjoys, and that I must be consistent with it.

I have been using non-physical punishments, in the rare times where I need them, trying to keep her unable to know what might be her next punishment as an added incentive to behave. I don't have to punish her very often, because she quickly decided that my punishments are not amusing. But I have only once ever used a physical punishment. As in, only as part of her harshest punishment experience did I ever use a flogger, mainly because I wanted to punish her in a variety of ways to emphasize the magnitude of my displeasure. I am trying to avoid hitting her as a form of punishment because first of all, I believe it is not wise to hit her out of anger, and second, I do not wish for her to associate the flogger with punishment when I want it to be a toy.

However, on the other hand, flogging her as a form of punishment does have its appeal, and the thought of rough and intentionally painful anal sex as punishment has crossed my mind as well. Currently, anal sex for us is a very intimate bonding experience which I use to make her feel fully owned and dominated by me. It is not a common thing for us to engage in, but I do like that it has positive connotations for her. As of now, I use things like report writing, orgasm denial, denial of touch, and denial of my presence as punishment.

My question is this. Is the use of an act or object as punishment wise if it is also used in another context? Should I consider things that are held in positive connotation as off limits as forms of punishment? Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

I appreciate your answers.

 

[JMohegan]

However, on the other hand, flogging her as a form of punishment does have its appeal, and the thought of rough and intentionally painful anal sex as punishment has crossed my mind as well. Currently, anal sex for us is a very intimate bonding experience which I use to make her feel fully owned and dominated by me. It is not a common thing for us to engage in, but I do like that it has positive connotations for her. As of now, I use things like report writing, orgasm denial, denial of touch, and denial of my presence as punishment.

If something has an appeal to me, I do it because it has an appeal to me. Period.

I don't need an excuse, or a reason, or behavior on the part of a partner that effectively gives me permission.

Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

I know others who do this. See the posts by Serijules on this thread.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My question is this. Is the use of an act or object as punishment wise if it is also used in another context? Should I consider things that are held in positive connotation as off limits as forms of punishment? Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

I appreciate your answers.

IMHO, it depends on the people involved and the relationship. I think the most important factor in punishment is the mental attitude and the understanding by both that it is puniushment, not a game, and not pleasure. I am a masochist, and yet if he chooses physical pain as a means to punish me, the effect is far from pleasureable, even more painful than normal and not in a good way simply because of the psychological understanding of what has happened to bring about its need. If the submissive does not feel remorse for whatever they have done to displease, no doubt it will not have that effect but will continue to either be pleasureable or foster resentment.

The use of something which is also used for pleasure also depends on the psychological and emotional position of your submissive. It could be that it would begin to be associated with negative events by some, just as easily as it could happen that they do not see it as punishment but still see it as pleasure. Once again it is a matter of the mind, and also the psychological maturity and stability to differentiate the 2 events and not become distressed or confused. Similarly, for some, denying them your presence can cause negative problems unrelated to the punishment in various ways, one of them being in shutting down open communication. It is a matter of knowing each other well, talking about how each feels about the alternatives, and understanding that if something does not go as planned that it is the responsibility of both to then deal with the outcome.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

I've got about a year of experience in expressing my dominance with a submissive woman, and I'm very aware how much I have left to learn before I will feel that I am experienced, so I have a question about punishment. I would love to hear from all sides.

In my relationship with my submissive, I have given careful consideration to when, what and how much punishment to use because I know that punishment, especially in the beginning, is a defining experience. I know that punishment must be punishment if it is to be effective, and not something the sub enjoys, and that I must be consistent with it.

I have been using non-physical punishments, in the rare times where I need them, trying to keep her unable to know what might be her next punishment as an added incentive to behave. I don't have to punish her very often, because she quickly decided that my punishments are not amusing. But I have only once ever used a physical punishment. As in, only as part of her harshest punishment experience did I ever use a flogger, mainly because I wanted to punish her in a variety of ways to emphasize the magnitude of my displeasure. I am trying to avoid hitting her as a form of punishment because first of all, I believe it is not wise to hit her out of anger, and second, I do not wish for her to associate the flogger with punishment when I want it to be a toy.

However, on the other hand, flogging her as a form of punishment does have its appeal, and the thought of rough and intentionally painful anal sex as punishment has crossed my mind as well. Currently, anal sex for us is a very intimate bonding experience which I use to make her feel fully owned and dominated by me. It is not a common thing for us to engage in, but I do like that it has positive connotations for her. As of now, I use things like report writing, orgasm denial, denial of touch, and denial of my presence as punishment.

My question is this. Is the use of an act or object as punishment wise if it is also used in another context? Should I consider things that are held in positive connotation as off limits as forms of punishment? Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

I appreciate your answers.

Good for you... A Dom (or anyone for that matter) never hits out of anger. And actually, hitting is not a word I would use in connection with punishment, anyway.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

My question is this. Is the use of an act or object as punishment wise if it is also used in another context? Should I consider things that are held in positive connotation as off limits as forms of punishment? Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

I did read about a couple who doubled up on some toys for this purpose. There was a flogger which was used for punishment and a different one used for play. This meant that the one used for play had no negative connotation.

anal sex for us is a very intimate bonding experience which I use to make her feel fully owned and dominated by me.

If you do decide to use painful anal sex as a punishment, in both play and punishment you would be dominating her fully. This would make it a very powerful tool. I do wonder whether, for her though, the closeness and specialness of loving anal sex might be lost a little through this. You know your lady best I'm sure.

 

[rexfelis]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I think I'll avoid using anal sex as a punishment, since it could lead to physical damage. The rest, I'll have to consider some more.

 

[myinnerslut]

my Sir has used a variety of punishments when needed. He has stopped the scene completly when i had displeased him. when i broke one of his major rules, i wasnt allowed to cum for two weeks. on the physical end of things, he has used rough anal once, and it was a very effective punishment. He has also used a floggers as punishment, but since i am a bit of a masochist, he has to go beyond what i find enjoyable in order for it to be a punishment.

 

[sexychik69]

I did read about a couple who doubled up on some toys for this purpose. There was a flogger which was used for punishment and a different one used for play. This meant that the one used for play had no negative connotation.

I agree with what VD said... if you look at it from a psychological experiment approach, it can be concluded that if one object is meant to bring a sense of fear or awareness of your displeasure (say one particular flogger), then a different one may be associated with pleasure. One of a different color, with different demensions, etc. could and should be safe to use. If not, then there are plenty of other spanking tools and toys that you can use on her that normally have the same satisfying effect on both Dom and sub. But, as long as there is no mental connection between the two toys, it should be safe to use both seperately. Just don't forget which is punishment and which is pleasure!

 

[rexfelis]

I agree with what VD said... if you look at it from a psychological experiment approach, it can be concluded that if one object is meant to bring a sense of fear or awareness of your displeasure (say one particular flogger), then a different one may be associated with pleasure. One of a different color, with different demensions, etc. could and should be safe to use. If not, then there are plenty of other spanking tools and toys that you can use on her that normally have the same satisfying effect on both Dom and sub. But, as long as there is no mental connection between the two toys, it should be safe to use both seperately. Just don't forget which is punishment and which is pleasure!

Perhaps I should do that. I suppose either way I'll have to experiment to find what works for me, though... so I might as well try everything reasonable.

 

[rexfelis]

my Sir has used a variety of punishments when needed. He has stopped the scene completly when i had displeased him. when i broke one of his major rules, i wasnt allowed to cum for two weeks. on the physical end of things, he has used rough anal once, and it was a very effective punishment. He has also used a floggers as punishment, but since i am a bit of a masochist, he has to go beyond what i find enjoyable in order for it to be a punishment.

What does anal usually mean for you and how did rough anal affect that? If I may inquire.

 

[myinnerslut]

What does anal usually mean for you and how did rough anal affect that? If I may inquire.

anal for me is anal sex (with lube) I usually am able to cum with only a little extra stimulation. when it was used as a punishment, there was very little if any lube, and it HURT. I was not supposed to get any enjoyment out of it (and didnt)

 

[O'Mac]

my Sir has used a variety of punishments when needed. He has stopped the scene completly when i had displeased him. when i broke one of his major rules, i wasnt allowed to cum for two weeks. on the physical end of things, he has used rough anal once, and it was a very effective punishment. He has also used a floggers as punishment, but since i am a bit of a masochist, he has to go beyond what i find enjoyable in order for it to be a punishment.

This is defintely my back-up plan when a sub has misbehaved in the past. As mentioned, it sometimes useless to use a crop or whip on a masochist and other physcial forms of punishment can turn the situation against the Dom. Stopping the scene works wonders and keeps the sub in check, I've found. However, in any case, make sure that they know that they have broken a rule. Random denial without an explanation isn't so good.

 

[rexfelis]

anal for me is anal sex (with lube) I usually am able to cum with only a little extra stimulation. when it was used as a punishment, there was very little if any lube, and it HURT. I was not supposed to get any enjoyment out of it (and didnt)

I was more inquiring as to the value of anal sex for you. For me and my sub, it has deep emotional connection connotations. She went from "No anal sex" to "Master, please, will you take me that way?" because I made it something that she associated with a very special and important thing for her, which is that emotional connection and knowing that I and I alone own her. For her it's a way of giving herself to me completely, in a way she wouldn't do for anyone else before. A demonstration of submission and fully giving herself to me.

I ask if it has any value beyond pleasure physically for you because that really complicates things when it comes to how it is perceived, if I should choose to cause pain for punishment that way. In my case, I don't think I could, because it would then likely lose it's purity of value and meaning for her, in my opinion.

 

[rexfelis]

This is defintely my back-up plan when a sub has misbehaved in the past. As mentioned, it sometimes useless to use a crop or whip on a masochist and other physcial forms of punishment can turn the situation against the Dom. Stopping the scene works wonders and keeps the sub in check, I've found. However, in any case, make sure that they know that they have broken a rule. Random denial without an explanation isn't so good.

I'm not yet used to calling it "scene". She and I were pretty much self contained for about a year, because we were so new that we were learning from eachother enough that it was all well and good. Now, in order to continue learning, I have begun reaching out to the community, as has she.

Anyway, I realized while reading your post that I have indeed had "scenes" with her, and I have broken scene when she displeased me, as well, and you're right - it works wonders.

Of course being consistent and clearly communicating the reason for any punishment is vital.

I wonder if perhaps I am being too cerebral about how to and how not to punish her. lol

 

[myinnerslut]

did you ever say why you looking for a punishment her? is this all hypothetical or do you have a specific offense in mind? if so, is it a big one or a small one? this information would be useful in deciding a punishment. In my experience, ive found that a punishment works best when associated with the misbehavior in question

 

[esclave_PP]

My question is this. Is the use of an act or object as punishment wise if it is also used in another context? Should I consider things that are held in positive connotation as off limits as forms of punishment? Has anyone used (or had used on them) a toy or an act that normally has good connotations, as a form of punishment?

Typically I would think that doing something that the submissive doesn't like would work best. In my case, it would be Master ignoring me. In some cases, it is physical. In others you keep the submissive from doing something they enjoy. Even writing a paragraph over and over can work as punishment.

Do something creative that doesn't drain you too much.