Punctuation query

[Alex De Kok]

I'd like, if I may, to address a query to the collected brains in the Hangout. In the tale I'm working on at the moment I have a character saying something, realising she's in a possible invasion of privacy and breaking off her sentence. I've written it this way:

"They certainly seem comfortable – " Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

My query is about the termination of the first piece in quotation marks. I've finished it by using space, dash, space, quotes. It looks okay, but is it right? Nothing in my (admittedly few) references helps me. Should there be a period, or comma, before the quotes? I've tried it with both and it just looks wrong to me. I considered an ellipsis, but that usually infers missing words and here I have the character stopping in mid sentence.

Can the panel help?

Alex

 

[PAUL C]

A suggestion

"They certainly seemed comfortable..."

Larson broke off.

"Sorry, none of my business." He continued.

 

[Pure]

Does not look right, A.

The suggestion above isnt bad**. How about nothing at all, where the dots are. Why does the punctuation have to 'say' what you say. I.e., "Where are you going?" He questioned.


**Added: The problem with the dots is that they are often used when someone sort of 'trails off', which is the opposite of what's happening. (The three dots in a quotation, though, introduced by the quoter {added: writter of scholarly piece}, may indicate an arbitrary abrupt deletion.')

 

[Rainbow Skin]

Three separate issues.

If it was the equivalent of Larson said: "They certainly seem comfortable – Sorry, none of my business." then we'd just be discussing whether to insert a comma in the middle before Larson said. That is, which of these two is it:

"They certainly seem comfortable – " Larson said. "Sorry, none of my business."

"They certainly seem comfortable –, " Larson said. "Sorry, none of my business."

Now, as a dash can be followed by a comma – within ordinary sentences –, I'd go for the second. It's not like an exclamation mark, which can't be followed by one.

"They certainly seem comfortable! " Larson said. "Sorry, none of my business."

However, using Larson broke off changes it. I don't think you can write "Blah blah," Larson broke off., because the breaking off isn't the way she's saying Blah blah, it's what she does when she stops saying it. So it's a separate sentence between the two speeches, similar to:

"They certainly seem comfortable." Larson was silent for a while then spoke again. "Sorry, none of my business."

Now, is a dash followed by a full stop when it ends the utterance? You can argue it either way. Fowler says the point is debatable and of no great importance. So either of these:

"They certainly seem comfortable – " Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

"They certainly seem comfortable –." Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

Third issue, spacing. Printed dashes don't have spaces around them. It should be either of:

"They certainly seem comfortable–" Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

"They certainly seem comfortable–." Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

But in typing we usually haven't got a real dash, and either use a hyphen with spaces around it, or use two hyphens and optionally spaces.

 

[Pure]

Alex, I did find an example of the way you propose.

The second speaker interrupted.

"I'm not--"
"Shut the fuck up," she interrupted.

Interesting that Rainbow doesn't read you as having a second speaker, so far as I can tell. Maybe worth clarifying. If she misreads you, her proposals may not be valid. And by the same token, for me.

J.

 

[Quasimodem]

"They certainly seem comfortable. . . . " Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business." (This would indicate Larson, left the first sentence incomplete, then started the second, as a new thought.)


"They certainly seem comfortable . . . sorry, none of my business." (This indicates that Larson switched subjects in the middle of his sentence.)


The inclusion of the interstitial information [ Larson broke off.] is an individual choice, although, according to the punctuation of this format, the extra tag is redundant.



A period followed by three dots is equal to the end of an incomplete thought.

Three dots equal a change of thought between sentence fragments.

BTW:

All authorities that I have encountered require a blank space between each dot.

The exception is the space between the last letter of the last word in a completed sentence fragment, and the first dot. (See example one.)

 

[openthighs_sarah]

I read it the same way as Rainbow Skin -- one speaker.

I never read an ellipses as an indication of missing words in fiction. In non-fiction, or in quoted material, that's what it means. That's only one use, though. According to Chicago Manual of Style [14th ed., section 10.39]:

Ellipies points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty, and they should be reserved for that purpose. The dash, on the other hand, suggests some decisiveness and should be reserved for interruptions, abrupt changes in thought, or impatient fractures of grammar.

The ellipses are andante sostenuto; the dash is staccato.

So when I see "They certainly seem comfortable--", I assume he was about to say something more, but he cut himself off abruptly -- no fade (as the ellipses would suggest). Was he about to say something else? If not, I would use this version (provided by Rainbow Skin):

"They certainly seem comfortable." Larson was silent for a while then spoke again. "Sorry, none of my business."

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I wouldn't have understood it without your explanation, Alex. I agree with Paul. That makes most sense to me.

 

[gauchecritic]

Ok then. Using what has already been delineated and including the tag:

"They certainly seem comfortable - -." Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

"They certainly seem comfortable..." Larson trailed off. "Sorry, none of my business."

I think the trailing off would indicate a change of facial expression (realisation, embarrassment etc.) but the breaking off would indicate a quick intake of breath.

But then what do I know?

Gauche

 

[Chicklet]

Hey Alex,

Actually, I prefer the way you did it. I think that the "..." is more of a trailing off into thought type thing, rather than cutting off and trying to change the subject. If I saw you use the " - " in your story, I wouldn't send you hate-mail.

-Chicklet

 

[Guest]

But then what do I know?

Stop saying that, cher Gauche. You know a lot (hope that wasn't too personal).

Me, I go with ... , and so I go.

Purr

 

[Pure]

OT said

[quoting an authority]//Ellipies points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty, and they should be reserved for that purpose. The dash, on the other hand, suggests some decisiveness and should be reserved for interruptions, abrupt changes in thought, or impatient fractures of grammar. //

The ellipses are andante sostenuto; the dash is staccato.

So when I see "They certainly seem comfortable--", I assume he was about to say something more, but he cut himself off abruptly -- no fade (as the ellipses would suggest). Was he about to say something else? If not, I would use this version (provided by Rainbow Skin):

The authority isn't really talking about ellipses to indicate either a sudden break in speech (as when someone for no apparent reason stops mid sentence), or an interruption.

I agree with this. It's what I was trying to say, about interruption, break off, or 'trail off.'

Are you going to tell us, A, how many speakers there are?

J.

 

[PAUL C]

I assumed

I assumed that there was 'one person, in reported speech."

 

[dr_mabeuse]

All I can say is the way I'd handle it, which would be to describe what's happening in the attributive part. Something like,

"All I can say..." Larsen broke off, suddenly aware that he might be overheard. "etc..."

something like that.

 

[Alex De Kok]

Thanks for the replies, guys and gals. I knew I could rely on you. To clarify the situation, Larson saw something she shouldn't and is about to commit a faux pas by mentioning it. Her audience, Carly, is the sister of one of the people Larson saw, and who knows that Larson saw what she saw. (I can't say too much more - the tale isn't finished yet!)

I want to convey the situation where someone is about to say something they shouldn't and realises it after they have started but before completing the remark. If that makes sense.

I didn't want to use an ellipsis, which I would probably have done if the sentence had trailed off unfinished. I want to convey an abrupt breaking off of an incomplete remark. The inclusion of a couple of extra lines might help - this is how it looks at the moment:-

-----

"They certainly seem comfortable – " Larson broke off. "Sorry, none of my business."

"Comfortable with me? You're right." Carly chuckled. "You saw how comfortable this morning."

"God, I am so sorry about that. I should have stayed in the living room as you asked."

-----

Any further coments welcome.

Alex