Formatting glitches in uploaded files?

[vzb]

When submitting a story, I like to upload a .docx file instead of copy/pasting into the dialogue box because that way literotica will actually display a m-dash as such instead of breaking it into two hyphens (— instead of --). But the last couple times I've done this not only has that not worked (it's still giving me hyphens), it's also removed the space before any ellipsis so that it's pressed up against the preceding word instead of having a space on either side. (Compare the dashes/ellipses in this with the ones in this to see what I'm talking about.)

Maybe this is a longshot, but: does anyone know why this is happening and how to avoid it? And does anyone have a better method for securing the integrity of my sacred m-dashes? Thanks in advance.

 

[KeithD]

I've kept it very simple through nearly 1,600 stories now across accounts: copy and paste. It's always worked. It's not a big deal that em dashes come out as two hyphens--that was the typewriter's answer to the issue, so readers are accustomed to that.

Publishing ellipes have spaces between all of the dots: words . . . more words. And, no, the Literotica system doesn't render them correctly even when I give them correctly. Just a site style call we have to live with. As long as they are consistent, the reader will understand (most readers don't understand that publishing has a set style for this anyway.)

 

[vzb]

Yeah, I may go back to copy/pasting if I can't figure this out.

It's certainly not a big deal with the hyphens; I just prefer the way it looks with a proper m-dash and I'm (very) slightly irked that it's so hard to get them to work right. Same thing with the ellipses being presented just so. And I use lots of dashes and ellipses compared to most, so if I'm re-reading one of my own stories and the formatting is off, I'm going to be reminded of it roughly every 30 seconds.

 

[KeithD]

I just prefer the way it looks with a proper m-dash

Yes, well, this is where authors must give way to get their works published--just as much in the mainstream as here. The site has a right to set its publishing style for this and that. It's based on consistent presentation for the readers. It is not based on individual author preferences on presentation styles, which, if permitted, would lead to readers being thrown out of the flow of the stories because of the style differences they would encounter across the collection.

 

[KeithD]

if I'm re-reading one of my own stories and the formatting is off, I'm going to be reminded of it roughly every 30 seconds.

It's not "off" for that publisher (although it could be off for publishing authorities like the Chicago Manual of Style). As an author, you've just got to learn to accept a publisher's right to set the style standards for its collections if you want them to publish your work. Most of them aren't doing it to be capricious or contrary--they are doing it with the understanding that that provides the smoothest and most consistent read for the readers. Authors need to jettison the "it's all about me" stance and see getting published as a team effort.

 

[mildlyaroused]

It's not "off" for that publisher (although it could be off for publishing authorities like the Chicago Manual of Style). As an author, you've just got to learn to accept a publisher's right to set the style standards for its collections if you want them to publish your work. Most of them aren't doing it to be capricious or contrary--they are doing it with the understanding that that provides the smoothest and most consistent read for the readers.

I'd mostly agree, except that basic punctuation doesn't constitute style.

An em dash is an em dash, and shouldn't be split up. Just like a semicolon shouldn't be turned into a colon. I use hyphens and em dashes distinctly in my punctuation.

This is particularly true because when you go to 'preview and publish' the em dashes appear like normal, but they get split up when the text is actually published. This is just inconvenient. If the site wants us to use a certain style it should tell authors that em dashes won't appear like normal so the author can choose to rectify it, instead of having to put up with the default double-hyphen which doesn't look so good.

 

[vzb]

It's not "off" for that publisher (although it could be off for publishing authorities like the Chicago Manual of Style). As an author, you've just got to learn to accept a publisher's right to set the style standards for its collections if you want them to publish your work. Most of them aren't doing it to be capricious or contrary--they are doing it with the understanding that that provides the smoothest and most consistent read for the readers. Authors need to jettison the "it's all about me" stance and see getting published as a team effort.

Well, sure, the publisher has the right to standardize certain style choices. And I'm not declaring a jihad here or anything. It's fine, whatever.

But there are certain things that are (or ought to be) within the author's control and can vary from one submission to the next without damaging the overall presentation of the site. Perhaps you'd draw that line in a different place than I would, and that's totally fair...

... BUT, I'm not at all convinced that either of the cases I've mentioned represent an intentional choice by anyone at literotica: my guess is that this is more a matter of glitchy or limited software. I'm happy to be refuted by someone who knows better and, again, it's not a big deal.

 

[KeithD]

I'd mostly agree, except that basic punctuation doesn't constitute style.

Yes it does. For example, to serial comma or not. To set a short introductory clause off with a comma or not. To what extent to permit em-dashed interjections. When to permit semicolons. How many sentence fragments to permit in fiction. Do they/don't they permit the use of exclamation points (many publishers don't). Publishing houses go down to this level in setting their own style guide. Literotica is a publishing house. It has a style guide; it just doesn't have one posted anywhere.

You've pointed to two site style choices: not to include proper em dashes in copy-and-pasted works, and not to include proper ellipses at all (although this most likely reflects Laurel not knowing publisher style to this level)/

 

[KeithD]

But there are certain things that are (or ought to be) within the author's control and can vary from one submission to the next without damaging the overall presentation of the site. P

Yes, and Literotica is a pretty lenient publisher in this regard. (Have you tried publishing with a mainstream publisher?) These are just cases where Literotica has set their style whether or not you like it. The story file here is a rolling anthology subject to Literotica style and the degree of consistency it decides it wants. It's not unlike any other publishing house in that regard--except, as noted, it's a pretty lenient one.

You're not going to get me to move anywhere close to "it's all about the author."

Like any other publisher, with Literotica, the reader/buyer is #1. The best the author comes in at is #2. It's not like there is a scarcity of stories on offer for Literotica publishing.

 

[RejectReality]

About the only way to be sure Lit will render your em dashes is to replace them with the special character code — I've used this in every submission for over a decade. ( And, yes, I don't actually use them properly. I put a space before and after them, instead of having them directly join the characters... except when I use them for cut-off speech. )

I've never tested it, but looking it up claims that … would solve the ellipses problem. Manually typing it is going to result in the extra spaces being removed by standard html protocol.

 

[vzb]

About the only way to be sure Lit will render your em dashes is to replace them with the special character code &mdash

Thanks!

Sorry for the elementary question, but how would that work exactly? I haven't used character codes before. (I'm happy to look at a link if you've got one.)

 

[mildlyaroused]

Yes it does. For example, to serial comma or not. To set a short introductory clause off with a comma or not. To what extent to permit em-dashed interjections. When to permit semicolons. How many sentence fragments to permit in fiction. Publishing houses go down to this level in setting their own style guide. Literotica is a publishing house. It has a style guide; it just doesn't have one posted anywhere.

You've pointed to two site style choices: not to include proper em dashes in copy-and-pasted works, and not to include proper ellipses at all (although this most likely reflects Laurel not knowing publisher style to this level)/

You won't find a mainstream publishing firm that doesn't provide proper provisions regarding punctuation, and instead publishes the work without warning of changes. I've found myself in disputes around style before, but it comes in the form of discourse and actual conversation; it's poor etiquette to give the author no fair warning.

I'd add that you won't find a mainstream publishing firm that uses double hyphens instead of em dashes. There might be terms surrounding appropriate em dash usage, but a double hyphen is an outdated convention. It's usually associated with older technology that had limitations in typeface/character sets.

As the OP said, the issue seems to be more down to a formatting glitch than a style guide. This site allows pretty much any punctuation you want. It lets people with no experience publish disjointed prose to no end. I would be shocked if the question of em dashes came to a specific style standard when there are no other precedents for style set whatsoever.

 

[mildlyaroused]

Thanks!

Sorry for the elementary question, but how would that work exactly? I haven't used character codes before. (I'm happy to look at a link if you've got one.)

Just write it as is. "—"

So:
He stared. "I just meant—"

Becomes:
He stared. "I just meant—"

Remember the semicolon on the end. It looks weird but when you go to 'preview and publish' you'll see it works.

 

[RejectReality]

Thanks!

Sorry for the elementary question, but how would that work exactly? I haven't used character codes before. (I'm happy to look at a link if you've got one.)

Anywhere you want the symbol, replace it with that code. Here's some words—and more words should render Here's some words—and more words.

Again, I've never attempted it, but it should even work in an uploaded doc. I copy-paste plain text.

 

[vzb]

Just write it as is. "—"

Anywhere you want the symbol, replace it with that code. Here's some words—and more words should render Here's some words—and more words.

Gamechanger! Thanks so much, this is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[KeithD]

You won't find a mainstream publishing firm that doesn't provide proper provisions regarding punctuation, and instead publishes the work without warning of changes. I've found myself in disputes around style before, but it comes in the form of discourse and actual conversation; it's poor etiquette to give the author no fair warning.

I've freelance edited for over twenty-five mainstream publishers and, with them all, all of my editorial suggestions have been subject to author review--and rebuttal, if they saw necessary--followed by a publisher judgment that might either accede to the author or inform the author of the line at which house style rules reign if the book is going to be published by them. (You have to sell really, really well with your initial book in the mainstream to be allowed to get "it's all about the author" with a publisher.) So, no, publishing the work without warning of changes isn't something you'll find with mainstream publishers.

The works aren't being edited by the house here, though, so that line of reasoning is irrelevant to the issue. That is a difference between mainstream publishers and Literotica. Literotica does not have an editing phase. So, yes, works will fall into their presentation guidelines (which, as I've already noted, are pretty lenient) or you get a rejection notice.

 

[ronde]

Yes, and Literotica is a pretty lenient publisher in this regard. (Have you tried publishing with a mainstream publisher?) These are just cases where Literotica has set their style whether or not you like it. The story file here is a rolling anthology subject to Literotica style and the degree of consistency it decides it wants. It's not unlike any other publishing house in that regard--except, as noted, it's a pretty lenient one.

You're not going to get me to move anywhere close to "it's all about the author."

Like any other publisher, with Literotica, the reader/buyer is #1. The best the author comes in at is #2. It's not like there is a scarcity of stories on offer for Literotica publishing.

I've not been trained in writing beyond high school English and two Rhetoric courses in college, so my question may seem dumb. That question is - Why does it matter if Literotica doesn't publish using all the requirements of a text on formal writing? I would venture that most readers here have as little or less training than I do, so they won't know the difference as long as the punctuation makes the story readable. They care a lot more about what the story tells them than any minute points of punctuation.

I've been cutting and pasting my stories since I started writing and have never gotten a comment about punctuation or story formatting other than I need to put in some indication of a scene change. The only change I would like to see is that Literotica always changes my italics to plain text. Yes, I know I could change that, but it's not worth the trouble to me.

 

[KeithD]

I've not been trained in writing beyond high school English and two Rhetoric courses in college, so my question may seem dumb. That question is - Why does it matter if Literotica doesn't publish using all the requirements of a text on formal writing? I would venture that most readers here have as little or less training than I do, so they won't know the difference as long as the punctuation makes the story readable. They care a lot more about what the story tells them than any minute points of punctuation.

I've been cutting and pasting my stories since I started writing and have never gotten a comment about punctuation or story formatting other than I need to put in some indication of a scene change. The only change I would like to see is that Literotica always changes my italics to plain text. Yes, I know I could change that, but it's not worth the trouble to me.

I don't think it matters as much as long as what Literotica provides in consistent presentation doesn't differ enough with what readers will encounter outside of Literotica that it will impede readers' reads of Literotica stories.

On the italics not presenting in copy and paste, you have to manually provide those yourself: <i> at the start and </i> at the end.