Publishing advice?

[Bramblethorn]

I'm getting near the end of the series I've been posting on Literotica, and thinking I'd like to try my hand at getting it published commercially somewhere. I'm not sure what my best option would be, so looking for advice from those of you with more experience in these matters.

It's a novel-length lesbian story; I'm expecting it will be about 100k words once finished. Although there's quite a bit of explicit sex, it's heavily plot/character-driven, and anybody who picks it up expecting a stroke story is likely to be disappointed by the amount of talk etc. OTOH, judging by the feedback I've received, this is also the main selling point to those readers who do enjoy it. So I figure it'd do better marketed as "lesbian romance with sex" than "porn with plot".

I guess my options are either to self-publish, or to find a publisher willing to give it a go. But I'm not sure which of those would be better - and I don't know which publishers/self-pubs would be best. (I gather a lot of y'all use Smashwords, but are there better options?)

Considerations:

- I've really enjoyed the feedback and encouragement from readers here, so I wouldn't want to pull the story from Literotica for the sake of a few hundred dollars. (I'm guessing this rules out most conventional publishers, unless they're feeling really generous...)
- It's made it into the HoF here, which improves its visibility - obviously people aren't paying to read it on Lit, but maybe a few of those who find it here will be willing to buy a copy?
- I know some writers use free stories here to attract readers for pay-only stories elsewhere, but this isn't viable for me - it took me a year to write this one! I have a few other stories in the archive, but they're not in the same genre, aside from one short.

So, recommendations?

 

[PennLady]

First you need to research publishers. SR71 once suggested to me going to a site that sells books such as you've written and then looking at those books and seeing who publishes them. Then you check out the publishers and their requirements, etc.

Part of this depends on how quick of a turnaround you want. If you submit to a publisher, you probably have to wait 4-6 weeks for an answer, and that answer could be a rejection, then you'd do it again. Some publishers may specify that they don't want a manuscript that's currently also at another publisher.

Other advice I've seen or been given, if you're going to submit to a publisher, is to make sure your book has been heavily edited and proofread to minimize any errors.

Also, some publishers will require you to remove the story from any sites it's on.

From my limited personal experience with an e-publisher, people will purchase a story they've read. I had two nonhuman stories plus a couple of shorter hockey romances that I'd posted here, took down, then edited/fixed up and the publisher sold them on Amazon and other sites. People did buy, even though it had previously been available for free.

Good luck.

 

[D_Lynn]

Most distribution sites (Amazon being one of them) will require that you do not offer your book on other sites for less money than it is available on their site. In other words, you will not be able to keep it on Lit for free, unless you offer it for free on their site.

Going through a publisher cuts down on the amount of effort you have to invest in formatting, cover images, and submitting. You will get a lower royalty than self-publishing, though. It's a tradeoff. Most publishing houses have you sign an agreement for a specified period of time that gives them full rights to your work. This means, again, they will remove it from Lit because that does not make them money.

PL's advice to look into publishers who are already submitting material like yours is a good strategy if you're considering this route.

If you're dead-set on keeping it here, then start to look into other distribution sites where you can offer it for free, as well. Because once a reader who paid for it finds out they could've gotten it for free, you will lose credibility.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Hey Bramblethorn
I have been meaning to read your story - once I've got through the backlog of stories I promised in writing to read and review.

I have a blogpost on e publishing you might find helpful, it compares Lit with Smashwords and Amazon. I had good experiences publishing on all 3 but very different:

Where to Publish Your Hot Stuff.

I've earned surprising amounts with a story on Amazon published free elsewhere, although I suspect this was because I accidentally hit on a genre with a totally voracious readership!



I always thought you were a way more experienced writer than me! but please PM me to chat more about getting stuff out and about if you'd like to.

xxx

 

[Bramblethorn]

First you need to research publishers. SR71 once suggested to me going to a site that sells books such as you've written and then looking at those books and seeing who publishes them. Then you check out the publishers and their requirements, etc.

Ah, I should have clarified that - I have already researched several publishers (googled, looked at what they sell, checked submission guidelines, checked against a list of known scams). Some won't accept material that's been already been published elsewhere, which is obviously a deal-breaker.

Of the ones that do, the one that looks like the best fit is Bella Books (http://www.bellabooks.com ). Their policy is that "Only previously unpublished stories—or stories that have appeared on the Internet (and can be pulled)—will be considered". I'm also considering Pink Petals (http://pinkpetalbooks.com/Submissions.html ). If anybody has other suggestions, let me know.

But it's hard to get a feel for the numbers - for me the point of a publisher is that they should be good enough at marketing and finding enough additional readers to make up for what I lose in royalty percentage and independence. I have no idea whether that's likely to happen.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I always thought you were a way more experienced writer than me! but please PM me to chat more about getting stuff out and about if you'd like to.

Thanks for that, will do!

I've done a fair bit of amateur writing and several pieces of professional writing on spec, as well as technical editing, but I don't have any experience with marketing my own stuff or with non-solicited submissions.

 

[sr71plt]

ABut it's hard to get a feel for the numbers - for me the point of a publisher is that they should be good enough at marketing and finding enough additional readers to make up for what I lose in royalty percentage and independence. I have no idea whether that's likely to happen.

Well, yes, but you also have to add into the equation the time, effort, and knowledge you'll need to get it done yourself as opposed to the publisher doing this for you. This is production-phase stuff, not marketing.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

Save yourself a bunch of bother and just self publish on Smashwords.

It's relatively easy to format your .doc file to their style guide and if you just follow a few additional guidelines (like a good cover - which doesn't have to be expensive at all, unless you want it to be) you'll access their Premium List and have access to a wide array of large retailers (among them - Sony, B&N, Kobo, the Apple Store, B-T, Diesel, and others). Smashwords has a program your submission goes through that formats the file to make it compatable with nine different reading devices.

If you go the route of submitting to publishers you'll just be going to a lot of trouble and likely with little or no result. You'll have to reformat your file for each submission (some want one type face, another wants another type face, and the next will want a different one too; some will want single space, some double space, some 1.5 spacing, and it goes on and on). I tried that route back a while ago and it was nothing but a pain in the ass.

You'll go to all that trouble so some 'editor' or 'publisher' will skim a few pages of your story. And, to be entirely frank, through that experience I never had any contact with an 'editor' or 'publisher' who had a firm grip on anything but his dick (and whatever it is girl editors and publishers maintain a firm grasp on). You'll be signing away your publication rights to bozos who can't do anything for you - in terms of marketing your stories - that you can't do for yourself. AND who knows - the publisher you sign the publication rights to your story to might be out of business by April. Eventually you'll be able to again do something with your stories, but those rights will be in limbo for some while until you can make a determination as to whether they're really out of business, going to try again to get back into business, etc.

Just self-pub.

 

[sr71plt]

What's the situation (cost/graphic artist support/production support) on getting covers now when self-publishing?

 

[lovecraft68]

To the pretentious sounding boob above me.

This is a cover done on Microsoft publisher with a $3 stock photo. It's not perfect, but plenty good enough for an e-book

 

[BONNIEBREA]

What's the situation (cost/graphic artist support/production support) on getting covers now when self-publishing?

I've done all of my covers for under ten dollars (and some of them under five) - just the cost of a royalty-free stock image. The rest can be done on Paint or pretty much any other graphic design software.

 

[AshleyStout]

Say we'd like to branch out of epublishing and have a paperback available as well. Has anyone found a site that's really easy to work with? Is the formatting different?

Heh. I was rather out of my element dealing with the html code required for ebook publishing, I'd like the easiest or best way to deal with print.

Thanks guys! I learn so much from these message boards.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

Say we'd like to branch out of epublishing and have a paperback available as well. Has anyone found a site that's really easy to work with? Is the formatting different?

Heh. I was rather out of my element dealing with the html code required for ebook publishing, I'd like the easiest or best way to deal with print.

Thanks guys! I learn so much from these message boards.

I've never had an urge to try to paper publish on my own. The costs are prohibitive (for an individual). Then you have the issue of how you market that object. There are just so many issues and e-publishing avoids all of them.

Also, you shouldn't have to deal with html code to e-publish. All you need is a standard Word (.doc) file. Smashwords demands a working table of contents, but all that can be formatted inside Word, using the tools already in Word (and the SW style guide takes you through the process step by step).

 

[sr71plt]

Say we'd like to branch out of epublishing and have a paperback available as well. Has anyone found a site that's really easy to work with? Is the formatting different?

Heh. I was rather out of my element dealing with the html code required for ebook publishing, I'd like the easiest or best way to deal with print.

Thanks guys! I learn so much from these message boards.

CreateSpace at Amazon will also make a paperback version available as long as it will meet their minimum page requirements. And I don't think it costs anything. A good many of my published works are available in both e-book and paperback through that system. I've ordered a couple of them, and they are as good quality as any POD (print on demand) service.

 

[sr71plt]

I've done all of my covers for under ten dollars (and some of them under five) - just the cost of a royalty-free stock image. The rest can be done on Paint or pretty much any other graphic design software.

But the software cost you money too, didn't it? And not everyone is a graphics designer. I doubt there's any more important element in the e-book world than the quality of the cover.

So, how does a self-publishing author who doesn't have the graphics design skills or software get their covers these days--and at what cost?

I'm not saying I have the answers because not wanting to have to do the covers is one reason I'm with publishers. But I also don't think it's either the costless process or the snap for a self-publishing author to do that is being indicated.

 

[AshleyStout]

But the software cost you money too, didn't it? And not everyone is a graphics designer. I doubt there's any more important element in the e-book world than the quality of the cover.

So, how does a self-publishing author who doesn't have the graphics design skills or software get their covers these days--and at what cost?

Paint.net is a free alternative to photoshop. Easy to download, and there are tons of plugins that will allow you to use more elaborate affects. You'll also find, as you talk to people, that many friends will volunteer their time/skills. I learned this after the fact, and am in the process of having my covers redone. For my non-erotica, I hired a professional. He gave me an astoundingly good rate, but you'd have to be committed to the project to pay even reasonable fees.

Your costs ultimately depend on your vision of your work. If you're doing it entirely for fun and self-satisfaction, you can whip something up at home or with a little help. If you're moving in on a bigger market, you have to consider marketability of your product.

Yes, your book becomes a product. Sigh.

Good luck!

 

[BONNIEBREA]

But the software cost you money too, didn't it? And not everyone is a graphics designer. I doubt there's any more important element in the e-book world than the quality of the cover.

So, how does a self-publishing author who doesn't have the graphics design skills or software get their covers these days--and at what cost?

I'm not saying I have the answers because not wanting to have to do the covers is one reason I'm with publishers. But I also don't think it's either the costless process or the snap for a self-publishing author to do that is being indicated.

There are certainly sophisticated (and expensive) graphic design programs out there. Although, really, these days you can find software to do almost anything - even pretty sophisticated stuff - as freeware for no-cost download from somewhere. I do some voice stuff too, and downloaded a free program called Audacity. It's great for recording and editing voice and sound, and it's as good as anything you're going to pay for.

But Paint is part of Windows and so is available at no cost greater than what you're going to pay for a computer/laptop & software package combination. I'm sure the Mac basic OS likely has something similar to Paint in the basic package.

The covers good enough for Smashwords and their affiliated retailers don't have to be at all complex or involve great drawing or layout skills.

Take a few minutes and go onto Smashwords. I publish there under a different pen name: BEThalia (be sure to deactivate the adult filter before putting the pen name in the search field). I have seven books there with seven covers. The stories are volumes in a larger story, so all the covers are done in a similar fashion.

But you'll see how effective but simple covers can be put together without the need for great design skills. Those covers are just a royalty-free stock image and text. the text is just a matter of using Paint (or something similar) and just deciding what colors/type faces/type sizes you want, then typing it in a dragging it all where you want it to be.

 

[bashfullyshameless]

To the pretentious sounding boob above me.

This is a cover done on Microsoft publisher with a $3 stock photo. It's not perfect, but plenty good enough for an e-book

That's... actually a goddamn great book cover.

Hell, I'm tempted to go buy that book just based on the cover. So I guess it did its job.

 

[NaokoSmith]

I just do my covers using Paint.net very inexpertly and free piccies from Clipart. Although it's true that it's hard to find a Microsoft Images shot of two naked guys nestling lovingly together. . But I use my imagination and find something which I hope will stimulate the readers' imaginations!

I make sure I credit where I got the images from (although I'm not altogether sure they'd be grateful!) in the copyright section of the books. I say: text copyright Naoko Smith, images obtained free from [link].

I don't think my amateur efforts can match professionally produced covers which are provided with an understanding of what makes readers pick up a book but as said above, you can't always afford to spend a lot on packaging your indie writing and Lovecraft shows just what can be done on your own.

 

[sr71plt]

This is a cover done on Microsoft publisher with a $3 stock photo. It's not perfect, but plenty good enough for an e-book

I'm delighted that you've finally come around to accepting exactly what I was trying to tell you when I told you you were being an idiot to pay $100 for a cover for a self-published e-book--you know the exchange that started off your two-year (so far) hate campaign against me.

(what a boob)

 

[bashfullyshameless]

This is a cover done on Microsoft publisher with a $3 stock photo. It's not perfect, but plenty good enough for an e-book

I'm delighted that you've finally come around to accepting exactly what I was trying to tell you when I told you you were being an idiot to pay $100 for a cover for a self-published e-book

I dunno, I'm paying considerably more than that for original artwork for my next book cover. Turns out artists do work, and work costs money.

Then again, if the book never makes back what I sank into the cover, that's fine. I get some cool custom art & I have a way to justify it to myself.

 

[lovecraft68]

Say we'd like to branch out of epublishing and have a paperback available as well. Has anyone found a site that's really easy to work with? Is the formatting different?

Heh. I was rather out of my element dealing with the html code required for ebook publishing, I'd like the easiest or best way to deal with print.

Thanks guys! I learn so much from these message boards.

Createspace is the best and really easy to deal with, but there is a cost. If you have done your own editing and cover design the minimum price to publish with them is $379

 

[lovecraft68]

This is a cover done on Microsoft publisher with a $3 stock photo. It's not perfect, but plenty good enough for an e-book

I'm delighted that you've finally come around to accepting exactly what I was trying to tell you when I told you you were being an idiot to pay $100 for a cover for a self-published e-book--you know the exchange that started off your two-year (so far) hate campaign against me.

(what a boob)

Selective memory Pilot. Waaay back then I said I would not pay crazy money for everything I did, but felt my first published book was worth getting it done better than I could do it and I paid $65 for my first one.

Now seeing by your own admission you let your publishers handle everything and am not sure about any this, why don;t you just let the grown-ups talk?

 

[lovecraft68]

I dunno, I'm paying considerably more than that for original artwork for my next book cover. Turns out artists do work, and work costs money.

Then again, if the book never makes back what I sank into the cover, that's fine. I get some cool custom art & I have a way to justify it to myself.

I'll send you a pm of someone who is pretty good with covers for around the $50 range.

 

[lovecraft68]

@PIlot and anyone else interested


If you've downloaded Microsoft office I am pretty sure you have paint. There is also a program called Gimp which is a beginners photoshop and is very good and is free and some versions come with publisher.

There are multiple sites like "freeonlineimageeditor" where you can add borders text and even invert and change some of the colors.

If someone does not want to take the time and pay someone fine, but when you get into publishing 30+ e-books a year that gets very pricey and let's face it some of them don't sell well and can take awhile to repay the expensive cover.

Also for the record? Take a look at some of the covers Pilot's publisher has done for him on Amazon. Nothing fancy at all a single photo with some text or maybe two blended together. They're pretty simple.

But that very little bit of work that someone else is doing for you allows them to take a percentage of your sales. They get a percentage for every single copy you sell to cover a one time $10 expense.