Psychology of submission.

[nakedginger]

Understating why I like what I like. I have been exploring my submissive side and find humiliation massively arousing for me. The Doms who I play with are very, kind gentle and do things in very controlled way but I find myself drawn towards servitude and going further than expected. I get a real buzz surprising them.
The question I ask myself is why? What is in my brain that craves such a thing. A deep question but one that is gnawing away at me.
I may add I am quite feisty in real life.

 

[Acktion]

Isn't it an interesting question?

My current mind worm, for a few months now, is the part that potential temporoparietal junction dysfunction might play. Granted that is more neurological when you mentioned specifically psychological...

 

[nakedginger]

Isn't it an interesting question?

My current mind worm, for a few months now, is the part that potential temporoparietal junction dysfunction might play. Granted that is more neurological when you mentioned specifically psychological...

Well more detail maybe and beyond me but it is fascinating. So it's a dysfunction in my brain.

 

[Acktion]

What is "dysfunction?"

I just found it interesting... and in some ways captivating... that this particular junction is tied to the moral compass and the ability to separate "self" from "other."

However, I do not expect anyone to just accept my word for anything. Perhaps the reason my eyes are blue is because I'm not full of shit... because I constantly spew it out rather than retaining it.

I would always suggest to take anything I say and hit the books. And find ten sources minimum that either prove or disprove what I say before you accept or disregard it.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it... temporoparietal junction (TPJ) role in D/s...

We will, of course, disavow any knowledge should you etcetera, etcetera.

(Edit to Add: Why yes, there is a stripe of Sadism to my Dominance... why do you ask? )

 

[nakedginger]

What is "dysfunction?"

I just found it interesting... and in some ways captivating... that this particular junction is tied to the moral compass and the ability to separate "self" from "other."

However, I do not expect anyone to just accept my word for anything. Perhaps the reason my eyes are blue is because I'm not full of shit... because I constantly spew it out rather than retaining it.

I would always suggest to take anything I say and hit the books. And find ten sources minimum that either prove or disprove what I say before you accept or disregard it.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it... temporoparietal junction (TPJ) role in D/s...

We will, of course, disavow any knowledge should you etcetera, etcetera.

(Edit to Add: Why yes, there is a stripe of Sadism to my Dominance... why do you ask? )

No it's very interesting and open for free discussion. When I am being humiliated and getting very aroused from it then I feel disconnected, like it is not really me somehow. That would fit with a separation from self.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

You’re walking in the woods, a small hole opens beneath your feet, and you instinctively know there are many miles of unexplored caverns fanning out beneath you.

Such a cool topic.

 

[nakedginger]

You’re walking in the woods, a small hole opens beneath your feet, and you instinctively know there are many miles of unexplored caverns fanning out beneath you.

Such a cool topic.

I do feel like Alice vanishing down the rabbit hole sometimes.

 

[tallladiesman]

You’re walking in the woods, a small hole opens beneath your feet, and you instinctively know there are many miles of unexplored caverns fanning out beneath you.

Such a cool topic.

Explore
Carefully
Possibly using a recovery rope

 

[nakedginger]

Explore
Carefully
Possibly using a recovery rope

Or some long ladders

 

[Acktion]

Or some long ladders

I may have to borrow one of those long ladders to get myself out of this as I have been told off that I was "being mean" not to explain more and tried to point out that I'm not the submissive here to be tasked. And assigning research is a viable task.

***sigh***

I meet fewer and fewer Doms as pushy as some submissives can be...

Any road, I've got a leg up on some in some ways and a certain weakness in others from the training way, way back before some that might be reading this might have been born. My particular field of study was interdisciplinary. So, I don't tend to think in terms of pure psychology or pure sociology or pure neurology but a holistic intersection of all of them.

And it just makes more sense to me that way as two individuals with a similar societal background can come out as two very different people. Or two people with similar psychological profiles might then develop quite differently due to societal pressures.

But, back to the topic I was "being a meanie" about.

I was apparently not clear in part due to my endeavor to brevity (for a change) when I mentioned the ability to separate "self" from "other." Some of the papers out there on the subject have identified a certain... "blurriness" or "messiness" (got to love those scientific terms) within the temporoparietal junction as a potential cause behind why some people have more of an inclusiveness in their self-identity as opposed to a certain rugged individualism.

As it happens, they were talking in societal terms. And one of the (to my mind) fallacies is that they tend to look at society as a whole country (for example) or a community rather than the smaller groupings within the community of family units. So, they were thinking (and writing) in terms of how the individual would intersect with the community as a whole rather than within the specific relationship.

I did find it interesting that in one paper, in particular, they pointed out that the same individual that was considered "unwell" and "socially maladjusted" within the current stereotypical American culture was viewed as a Shaman and one of the village elders when he moved to a more inclusive culture that did not value as much rugged individualism and blossomed under the new set of social mores where he was viewed as a social strength as opposed to a social drain.

Currently, there are not papers that discuss the impact of this on the Dynamick that I am aware of. But, that is because it is a relatively new finding (comparatively speaking) and they are still viewing in terms of... ummm... Aspergers, Alzheimer's,..er, Shizophrenia... I don't frankly recall the entire alphabetical list that they were drawing some inferences for. But, they are currently empire-building, looking to posterity, their "legacy" (or at least tenure), and so are focused on "bigger" things in their studies.

I, on the other hand, am sort of post-ambition. At least that sort of ambitions. And was merely looking at in terms of a puzzle piece to occupy my mind while I combat the encroachment of a disease that seems intent on devouring my intellect. Ergo, I fully admit that I reserve the right to be incredibly wrong and don't mind in the slightest being corrected.

However, the logic seems to hold together to my myopic mind.

A submissive (of either gender) tends to have something along the continuity of inclusiveness in their self-image, whereas dominants (of either gender) tend to have something more along the continuity of individualism with less inclusiveness in theirs. Or perhaps a different sort of inclusiveness.

Don't get me wrong. There are "bedroom only" submissives who are strong and independent outside the boudoir and tend to view themselves as whole and complete without anyone else until it comes time to have their sexual needs met. And there are Dominants who do not feel dominant without a submissive. But, for the most part, the submissive tend to look outside themselves for direction and the Dominant tends to look within. Hence my thought process about whether this could be a missing puzzle piece.

As far as humiliation mentioned in your original post... Well, perhaps this little puzzle piece doesn't fit. Or perhaps it does.

In a nutshell, erotic humiliation specifically somehow drives the endorphin stew for you. What the specific words are that set your kitty to purring are irrelevant for this discussion as not only is humiliation not one of my driving fetishes but I am not the One who will be using them with you.

Sociologically within the smaller relationship unit, such words that imply you might be less than equate to your Person being more than, and therefore better suited to take control of the situation.

Psychologically, you hear the words and view the actions. The words say you are not worthy. But, the fact they are still there and doing such debauched things to you, with you, for you shows that they find you so. And the dissonance piledrives the emotive response by by-passing your brain-feed that would argue internally with whatever compliment was given. "You're just saying I'm beautiful to get into my panties, but I'm not really." And it frees you to focus on actions rather than words.

Neurologically... well, why wouldn't the aforementioned temporoparietal junction "blurriness" or "messiness" be responsible for releasing the endorphin stew. Since, that is, after all, the control area for self-perception.

And, on a side-note, "damage" (which was unspecified) to this area has been noted to produce reports of "out of body experiences." Or "like it's not really me somehow..."

***shrug***

Well, hopefully she'll let me get away with stopping there. And, as always, I'm left wondering if I actually contributed anything to the actual question at hand.

But, either way, Alice, keep in mind that at the end of the day, you are most impressively you. Whatever has made you that way. And the people (and People) in your life, if you are impressed with Them... well, then that must mean that whatever you are is a damn fine thing, then. Right?

Now, if you will excuse me, it is time for me to gyre and gimble in the wabe.

https://img1.etsystatic.com/117/1/6121139/il_570xN.867044593_m1ha.jpg

 

[littlebirdjoy]

Thank you Grumps. I was going to have to read( and still will) when I get home to see if this wasnt the SAME thing you had pointed out to me about Aspergers.

I'm glad to see some of these deep topics being posted and discussed again. As I ruminated on overcast year and a half ago, though it has taken a few cool new turns the last 10 months... my reason for that feeling OP is related to my use of D/s as a very effective coping mechanism for Aspergers, generalized anxiety ( this is actually quite better than it has been in DECADES), and also some issues related to be being primarily an external feeler as a primary information processing function and an internal thinker as my primary information gathering function. Some parts of the D/s lifestyle help me process. Plus my weakest function is external sensor so I'm a hopeless childish sensation slut ^__^ but that is beside the point. My Daddy has been working hard with me to teach me to use these things to " hack" my predispositions, use them to my advantage.

 

[SissySalina]

Understating why I like what I like. I have been exploring my submissive side and find humiliation massively arousing for me. The Doms who I play with are very, kind gentle and do things in very controlled way but I find myself drawn towards servitude and going further than expected. I get a real buzz surprising them.
The question I ask myself is why? What is in my brain that craves such a thing. A deep question but one that is gnawing away at me.
I may add I am quite feisty in real life.

As a sissy and submissive to Her this discussion is a curious note.
"To each his (her) own" has been said in the past and "only you can find that" has also been said.
This is that only you can figure out your "why", each person is a little different and their brain sees things a little differently. Most of this goes back to the way you were brought up as a little one, it has been said that the teen years mole a person the most, so maybe your answer is back there.
So for this sissy there is no "humiliation" as things are seen as they are (facts) and little emotions.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I do feel like Alice vanishing down the rabbit hole sometimes.

Oh yeah.

Actually, I feel that way the past few years whenever I take in news.

Explore
Carefully
Possibly using a recovery rope

Indeed. Also take headlamps and lots of protein bars. And pizza.

Understating why I like what I like. I have been exploring my submissive side and find humiliation massively arousing for me. The Doms who I play with are very, kind gentle and do things in very controlled way but I find myself drawn towards servitude and going further than expected. I get a real buzz surprising them.
The question I ask myself is why? What is in my brain that craves such a thing. A deep question but one that is gnawing away at me.
I may add I am quite feisty in real life.

This question so dominated me (heh) for years, that I finally became exhausted. I’m not sure there is a complete answer, and certainly not a universal one.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth asking.

Part of the appeal of D/s that makes sense to me is suggested by one of your remarks:”The Doms who I play with are very, kind, gentle and do things in very controlled way.”

There are aspects of our humanity that need honoring. For some of us, the “honoring“ that is needed isn’t relished by our cultures or by the aspects of our personalities that usually insist on driving. When we find ways to honor these parts of ourselves, it’s delightful. For D/s, I’d say that one of these needs is a desire to acknowledge the darker parts of the universe, and by extension, ourselves. Another is to let go - in a safe way - of the illusion that we control things.

Religion continues to be a popular way to satisfy these needs, but its traditional forms are proving less and less satisfactory and less relevant to westerners. We still find ways to honor these needs at holidays. The one that comes most to mind is Halloween, a (safe) celebration of the darkness we know is intertwined with the universe.

Another is “safe” thrills - scary movies and games, haunted houses, roller coasters. I think that for many, D/s dynamics and activities are in this realm. They are safe ways to experience “darker” parts of ourselves and of the universe that yearn to be acknowledged, experienced and celebrated.

As for your being “feisty,” that’s true of plenty of submissives in other aspects of their lives. It’s certainly true of my own submissive. Many powerful people with great responsibilities find rest in giving up that yang for defined periods of yin, and submitting can do that. Likewise, many dominants crave periods of control but are also quite sensitive and compassionate. D/s can be - like religious ritual - a place to be fully human.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

There are aspects of our humanity that need honoring. For some of us, the “honoring“ that is needed isn’t relished by our cultures or by the aspects of our personalities that usually insist on driving. When we find ways to honor these parts of ourselves, it’s delightful. For D/s, I’d say that one of these needs is a desire to acknowledge the darker parts of the universe, and by extension, ourselves. Another is to let go - in a safe way - of the illusion that we control things.

Religion continues to be a popular way to satisfy these needs, but its traditional forms are proving less and less satisfactory and less relevant to westerners. We still find ways to honor these needs at holidays. The one that comes most to mind is Halloween, a (safe) celebration of the darkness we know is intertwined with the universe.

Another is “safe” thrills - scary movies and games, haunted houses, roller coasters. I think that for many, D/s dynamics and activities are in this realm. They are safe ways to experience “darker” parts of ourselves and of the universe that yearn to be acknowledged, experienced and celebrated.

D/s can be - like religious ritual - a place to be fully human.

Yes. Quoted for emphasis and agreement. Well said.

 

[swflsrmale]

I was explaining some submissive feelings I have to one of our female friends last night,(she's a great listener!) and how there was a nurse at my doctors office (when I was younger) that was on the "dominant" side. I wouldn't have realized it at the time, but I do now. Every visit entailed stripping naked, then weighed and measured, then face down on the exam table for a rectal temp taking. All while my mother sat in a chair next to me. This continued for six to 7 years. The pediatrician never said a word or stepped over any boundaries, but the nurse always created intimidation. The embarrassment of that continuing situation stuck with me all my life.
Fast forward to age 30 when my wife and I talked about my past (in detail) and one day I came home from work and was met by my wife standing there nearly naked. She said "follow me" into the kitchen, where the table was opened about 6-8 inches in the center. She said to strip and climb up on the table and lay face down with my cock hanging through the opening. She then pulled out a handful of pre-cut ropes and said "ankles first"...and proceeded to tie my ankles in a spread eagle position to the corner table legs. The effect of being in that position stops you from moving completely. The feeling of submissiveness came over me like a wave. When she told me to stretch out my arms and secured my wrists and then secured my waist to the support bars in the center and pulled everything as snug as possible, the feeling of TOTAL submissiveness overwhelmed me. I knew she could do anything she wanted and she did. The enema bag, butt plug, double dildo, and vibrator all got workouts and taking my own cum whenever she said became a regular routine. I was hooked. I'm hoping that our friend may take the hint and help my submissiveness progress. I would love it.

 

[AlexBailey]

Not a shrink...

(Sorry if I'm dumbing this discussion down a little, I'm not up to speed on clinical psychology but I do have some personal observations I'd like to bounce off some better minds.)

I once read that in the early days of automobiles it was once thought that drivers would never be able to go faster than 30 miles per hour because the human brain couldn't think fast enough to process all of the information coming at them, overwhelming the mind. In the days of wagon roads this may have been true, but as roads improved there was less to pay attention to. It's interesting that it's common for people to report emergencies or accidents to happen in 'slow motion' in their minds. I work in a field where a significant amount of my work could be lethal if not properly attended to, the danger tightens my focus and time seems to warp to where it's hard to estimate how quickly time is passing.

Erotic bondage and being dominated can overwhelm my mind in a similar fashion, making it impossible to focus on all of the different simultaneous stimulations. My mind reels and rattles like a pinball bouncing between buffers and obstacles: "Oh that feels so good, what is she doing now? What was that? Ouch! Oh yum! What am I wearing? Who is looking at me? Oh, that feels so good..."

There can be too many things going on at once to pay attention to all of them, yet those things can each be titillating in a way where they trigger new endorphins each time I come to focus on a different stimulus. Being sexually over stimulated in a situation I have little control of can have a snowballing effect and get me 'higher' than a lot of pain can reach. Getting spanked while my endorphins are raging can fill me with surprise that I'm so turned on that something that would usually hurt has become a turn on... it enters a sort of erotic feedback loop.


Even in situations that aren't as extreme as bondage, having more erotic stimuli that I don't have control of can compound the sensations. Does this make sense to anyone other than me?

If nothing else, it has a tendency to clear out my asthma.

 

[littlebirdjoy]

oh yep. MMHMM. Yes. This is my jam. This is also what my Master is teaching me to "use" to my advantage. So I'm a sensation slut 100%. The quickest and easiest way to get my butt to subspace is to overwhelm me with sensation and it is the only time my brain stops overthinking and turns "off". Restraint is like a magic button for me, because it is the only time my mind can't fight to overthink.
Now, what we've been working on the last good grief darn near 10 months is using this positively. i'm not going to throw out all of the tricks, but two of the most poignient are the use of a bell and a plug. I wear a bell on my anklet now. The anklet is my collar of consideration. The bell has a point. I was not taught but made to realize that if at any point i realize i havent been consciously aware of my bell in a while... im overthinking life. I'm winding myself up. I need to stop and refocus.
That was an eye opener.

Then the plug. I never understood a whole slew of idiomatic expressions! When I first started wearing my plug daily it was a hell of an exercise in self awareness! The first day was awesomesauce. I thought i was going to die of needy. Then I saw my ex Sir the next day and ended up having to defend a lot of my choices. i even had him read my Master's profile and got his feedback. It made me *uptight* to say the least. Well the next day I cried to my Master that I couldnt get it in. i COULDNT. no matter what i did... it wouldnt go! He told me to go for a walk... and think. Think through everything I did the past 24 hours then think about him and when I was back from my walk when it was time to come home (and I'd know when that was) that it would work just fine. and it did. ... I didn't know what to make of that at all. So he explained. For several months after that it served as a very real and present monitor of my emotional state. I was taught in a very very real and present way to be far more in tune and aware of the emotions that my conscious mind suppressed. I now very rarely need it to tell me when I'm starting to get stressed out or "up tight" (har har I get it now) about things. I also learned exactly how to get a reign in on that and put my focus back where it belongs.

"There can be too many things going on at once to pay attention to all of them, yet those things can each be titillating in a way where they trigger new endorphins each time I come to focus on a different stimulus."
So for me, yes... using a ton of sensation to override my ability to focus is amazing and wonderful, but so too is intentionally using one sensation to draw my attention.

<3

 

[Primalex]

The question I ask myself is why?

If you state that you like humiliation, there is no particular activity that can be attributed to it which would be true for everyone. Someone might feel humiliated in being called "fat pig", someone else might feel merely insulted.

So the question is:
What is the common denominator of the activities that make you feel humiliated?

 

[Master_Doctor]

If you state that you like humiliation, there is no particular activity that can be attributed to it which would be true for everyone. Someone might feel humiliated in being called "fat pig", someone else might feel merely insulted.

So the question is:
What is the common denominator of the activities that make you feel humiliated?

Exactly. Humiliation is in the eye of the beholder... Ive trained and played with many submissives and or slaves over the years. What one feels is humiliation is nothing to another. One woman feels humiliated all day long if she is forced to spend the work day without a bra or panties (I had one slave that couldnt go into public w/o a bra (even if she was wearing a full sized sweater,. without breaking down in tears), while another wont feel humiliated of degenerated unless she was made to preform sex acts in public. What is humiliating... can be completely different from one person to another. What triggers your feelings of being humiliated very well may be completely different for another.

So, when I start talking to a sub about meeting her needs to be humiliated. My very first question is. What makes you feel humiliation. What causes situations cause your pussy to quiver in response?

 

[cookiecat]

I was explaining some submissive feelings I have to one of our female friends last night,(she's a great listener!) and how there was a nurse at my doctors office (when I was younger) that was on the "dominant" side. I wouldn't have realized it at the time, but I do now. Every visit entailed stripping naked, then weighed and measured, then face down on the exam table for a rectal temp taking. All while my mother sat in a chair next to me. This continued for six to 7 years. The pediatrician never said a word or stepped over any boundaries, but the nurse always created intimidation. The embarrassment of that continuing situation stuck with me all my life.
Fast forward to age 30 when my wife and I talked about my past (in detail) and one day I came home from work and was met by my wife standing there nearly naked. She said "follow me" into the kitchen, where the table was opened about 6-8 inches in the center. She said to strip and climb up on the table and lay face down with my cock hanging through the opening. She then pulled out a handful of pre-cut ropes and said "ankles first"...and proceeded to tie my ankles in a spread eagle position to the corner table legs. The effect of being in that position stops you from moving completely. The feeling of submissiveness came over me like a wave. When she told me to stretch out my arms and secured my wrists and then secured my waist to the support bars in the center and pulled everything as snug as possible, the feeling of TOTAL submissiveness overwhelmed me. I knew she could do anything she wanted and she did. The enema bag, butt plug, double dildo, and vibrator all got workouts and taking my own cum whenever she said became a regular routine. I was hooked. I'm hoping that our friend may take the hint and help my submissiveness progress. I would love it.

This is hot. You have a lovely wife.

 

[Lascivity]

I often find that questions of why (when it comes to BDSM stuff) often end up with answers that include "dysfunction" or similar words. So I'm not super into understanding the brain chemistry. I guess for me the more interesting question is "Why does this specific thing work for me?"

 

[Chewbacca79]

I often find that questions of why (when it comes to BDSM stuff) often end up with answers that include "dysfunction" or similar words. So I'm not super into understanding the brain chemistry. I guess for me the more interesting question is "Why does this specific thing work for me?"

I've a friend who is a psychologist. Not really into BDSM, but she knows her shit. She says that it is nearly always a result of past trauma.

Not saying I agree, but food for thought maybe.

 

[yukonnights]

I've a friend who is a psychologist. Not really into BDSM, but she knows her shit. She says that it is nearly always a result of past trauma.

Not saying I agree, but food for thought maybe.

I'm not sure that "submission" can be conflated with BDSM.

While most BDSM does include submission, not all submission includes BDSM. Take away the BDSM and you're left with pure D/s, which can be more nuanced.

I think most people of all genders and sexualities reside on a continuum from dominant to submissive. Not all of them have thought about it in much depth, but it's an innate part of who they are as a person. This doesn't really explain much about the "psychology of submission" in itself, but it does imply that such psychology is present in all of us. It is present in both those who have never had a past trauma as well as those who have. I would agree that a past trauma would/could emphasize or even change the inborn tendency of a person (probably more emphasize than change).

 

[sally_sparrow]

Greed

.....

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I've a friend who is a psychologist. Not really into BDSM, but she knows her shit. She says that it is nearly always a result of past trauma.

Not saying I agree, but food for thought maybe.

Would you mind asking your friend for links to peer-reviewed, large-scale studies that support her opinions?

Because this sounds like the most remarkable bullshit.