Protection in Prose...

[CoyoteTales]

Heya folks. Figured this is quasi-HowTo since it's technically asking for advice even if it's speculative fiction.

I'm working on a story involving a MFF threesome, and the fella is one of those overly responsible guys who insists on using protection even if both of his partners-to-be are on birth control. Assume that the women intend to doubleteam the hapless protagonist, who til this point has been monogamous.

1) Assuming intimacy occurs during the story between the protagonist and one of the women, should the 'odd one out' be participating by touching one or both partners, or just kinda waiting for the ability to cut in?
2) As readers, would having the protagonist insist on stopping for protection be something that detracts from the flow of the story, or is it reasonable if established as a character trait early on?
3) Can you cause potential issues by pulling out of one partner (having not ejaculated) and then entering the other, effectively mixing the fluids of the women together (i.e., are you risking some sort of UTI, yeast infection, or the like)? Does it make more sense to 'finish what he starts' before swapping out for a fresh rubber and starting in on the other girl? (to wit, assuming both of them get taken, now we've got #2 happening twice...)

...gods this sounds like a lame story idea the more I write it down...

Seriously, though. I think the best people to answer this are folks who have been in this situation - were there any complications that you didn't expect?

I've always been into writing stories that are less fantastical and more true-to-life. I think I may be in over my head on this one.

Help appreciated...
-CT

 

[silverwhisper]

CT: if he's overly responsible, does that necessarily extend to sex? i mean, it sounds good on paper, but if he's that uptight about things, mightn't sex be a realm where he isn't, where he cuts loose a little? is the menage the realization of a long-held fantasy, as it is for many men? in that instance too, he might be so caught up in what's going on that he doesn't worry about it.

but to answer your questions in the spirit intended:

1. this IMHO depends entirely upon the dynamic and personalities involved, and how the intimacy begins. if it's the two women ganging up on the man, then they likely wouldn't be interested in "waiting their turn", i wouldn't think. if it's a couple + 1 woman and the +1 was invited to join them, i would think the newcomer might be reluctant to make the first move beyond caresses. OTOH, maybe she's a sexual tigress and initiates things? any answer is potentially plausible without knowing the context/situation/personalities.

2. usually, i find choices made during sex OK provided the rationale/motivation is established prior to the sex. if you foreshadowed/seeded that personality trait earlier, i would think it's OK. just note that some people don't want reality intruding in their fantasy and any interruption would turn them off. those readers however are likely not your intended audience, so i say screw 'em. :>

3. the only issues i foresee here are any concerns re: STDs. if that isn't a concern--perhaps it's been established prior to sex--then no, and let's face it, exchange of fluids during sex is hot so the easier it is to include it in the story, the better, i say.

ed

 

[CoyoteTales]

Thanks for the quick reply, silverwhisper. Writing a clarification and then going to bed.

So far, I've got the dynamic being an established couple with a bit of a cooling period from being used to each other finding that they both are interested in the same woman, and there's a lot of unresolved sexual tension going on during the discovery process between the three of them.

The fella is trying to work out of a comfort/safe zone of having had just the one partner, the lass is bisexual but has been exclusive to the fella, and the new girl I haven't yet decided whether she's the driver or the passenger along for the ride with the couple taking the lead. All three of them are mutually positive about a threesome, though, and I'm going to assume there are no lurking past-partner STDs to worry about (hey, it's fiction, after all) and while the idea of doing the hot-swap of a ride is there, as the author I'm raising an eyebrow at my characters and saying, 'Does that actually -work-, or will someone who's actually done this sort of thing call shenanigans?'

I take what goes on in porn flicks as being so far from reality to be more of a staged performance than actual passion.

-CT.

The dare: 'You -always- write couple stories. How come you never write a threesome?'

The hook/premise: "What good is being bi if you only ever have half the solution? I'd always wanted to find someone that was more than an ordinary gal pal for my ladylove..."

 

[Carnevil9]

First of all, I've always believed that putting on a condom doesn't have to be an interruption to the sex; it can be part of the foreplay process. Ever had a woman put a condom on you using her mouth? Even if she hasn't mastered that skill, she can stroke you with one hand while rolling the rubber down with the other. The second woman can be sitting on your face or nibbling your nipples or whatever.

As to what the other woman is doing while the first one is fucking you, she can be sitting on your face or on all fours while you lick her ass, or she can be off in the corner masturbating while watching you, or even shouting out instructions like the caller at a square dance!

Anyway, sounds like an interesting challenge and an interesting story.

 

[SweetErika]

Note: I'm going to pretend this is a married couple for naming ease.

It's totally realistic for the woman who's not having sex at the time kiss, touch, etc., one of the people who IS having sex. I think it'd be awesome if you, say, have the wife kissing the other woman or playing with her breasts or clit while the other woman is having sex with the husband. I'm not really a fan of 69-type situations in reality, but it could paint a lovely picture if you had one of the women being penetrated from behind while she performs oral sex on the other women who is lying in front of her. Or you could have both women on top of the guy, one is having sex and the other kisses her neck and wraps her arms around her to play with her tits and bits (as a woman might do herself while she's on top). In porn, both women would typically team up to please the guy, so it's a little unexpected and more realistic to have a bisexual wife more interested in playing with the new woman, you know? If you're realistic and primarily focus on pleasure for the women (even if it's like one face-sitting while the other is cock-sitting), it'll probably turn out about right and not too pornish.

And, yeah, it's fiction, but if you're going to the trouble to mention condoms, then I think a "he quickly changed the condom" or something similarly easy would be in order before the guy switched women. It's realistic to be concerned about an unplanned pregnancy, but it's also realistic for women to be concerned about STIs and even vaginal infections (there are several a woman could get from another woman), as you mentioned. And the new woman isn't a friend or gf of either party, she's a new sex partner. Whereas I might exchange fluids with a gf (because we've talked about health, safety and our feelings about safer sex, recently been tested, etc.), I sure as hell wouldn't do it with a random woman.

Do I think about STIs when I read stories? Not usually. Maybe if there's grossly negligent behavior OR it's mentioned. By bringing condoms into the mix, you're mentioning it and making my brain go there. It'd be a hiccup in the flow for me if the guy didn't change the condom, as I stopped to wonder why they were only worried about pregnancy with a random woman.

However, if you don't mention condoms at all, or only have the guy using them with the new woman, I'm not going to think twice about the STI issue (also because he has a "clean" cock for his wife if they have sex after) because I'll chalk it up to you taking some liberties as a fiction writer.

 

[mike2010fc]

.....

 

[CoyoteTales]

Starting to take shape here.

Okay. I like the idea of the husband and wife (or at least long term boyfriend-girlfriend) including a longtime friend they have in common and having an exploratory weekend on a lake (balcony sex, anyone?). I think I'm going to combine some of the ideas people have tossed out there -- having whoever is currently not directly involved be in touch with the coupling pair of the two; I think each of them will have their own method of wanting to be 'involved' directly or indirectly.

Things I want to avoid:
-The stereotypical 'girl-girl, guy sits in a chair with a martini/cigarette' scene.
-I'm not sure I can do the 'someone sitting on someone's face' route realistically, because wrapping my head around trying to describe that plus what the other person is doing is making my head hurt.
-I agree that maaaybe talking about STDs is not going to fly in this story. I can safely assume (hey, it's fiction) that all three of them are clean.

Stuff I'm thinking about:
-Having some sort of music in the background. Having each of them have a song that represents them will kinda help decide who is 'leading' -- when the music changes, change partners. :} Silly, or no?

The music changed, going from the slow, new-Agey strings to a more vibrant, rhythm and blues beat. Kendri grinned, and lifted her head, levering herself up on her arms and rolling off of my lady. Andrea stretched. "That's the end of my tune." she announced, sitting up. "A'right, that means I'm out, Kendri's on you, and I'm directing." I swallowed audibly. Kendri just started walking her fingers up my leg, wending their way towards my cock, which was looking surprisingly approaching 'willing and able to handle seconds'. 'Holy crumbs.' I thought, '...this is really going to happen...'

Kendri sang a few bars of her song pick. 'I'm lookin' for a fox...' She laughed. 'Or maybe in your case, more for a fu--eeep!'

Andrea had swatted her on the rump with the CD controller. 'New rule. No swearing. If you swear, I hit the Fast Forward button and you lose your turn."

Kendri eyed my lover. "Why's that now?"

"Ronnie doesn't care much for foul language, being a gentleman." she explained. "It's one of his turnoffs." I smiled apologetically.

Kendri narrowed her eyes at me, and nodded. "Noted, then, thanks for the tip. All right. I reserve the right to use as many double entendres as I can get away with, though..."

-I'm on the fence about the hot-swap guy changing partners without climaxing stunt. It sounds a little unrealistic, because it leaves one partner unsatisfied and watching the fella pull out of her and get into the other person. Maybe it belongs in a foursome rather than a threeway, and maybe it's just a guy-fantasy rather than an all-around hot thing.

But then there's the 'don't break the chain' idea I had, where the third person has had their climax and is busy cuddling and recovering, and then is reset just in time to tagteam with the partner that has just caught theirs.
- What -do- you call a three-person relationship, anyway? A triad? Or just 'threesome?'
- I really do like the idea of making this about the new girl's experiences, and I'm halfway thinking of writing from her point of view, but I have this lovely epiphany setup scene in mind where the husband and wife partner ship admit that they're both interested in the same woman and it doesn't destroy their relationship so much as give them the idea to approach the girl as a team.

-CT

 

[SweetErika]

Starting to take shape here.

Okay. I like the idea of the husband and wife (or at least long term boyfriend-girlfriend) including a longtime friend they have in common and having an exploratory weekend on a lake (balcony sex, anyone?). I think I'm going to combine some of the ideas people have tossed out there -- having whoever is currently not directly involved be in touch with the coupling pair of the two; I think each of them will have their own method of wanting to be 'involved' directly or indirectly.

Things I want to avoid:
-The stereotypical 'girl-girl, guy sits in a chair with a martini/cigarette' scene.
-I'm not sure I can do the 'someone sitting on someone's face' route realistically, because wrapping my head around trying to describe that plus what the other person is doing is making my head hurt.
-I agree that maaaybe talking about STDs is not going to fly in this story. I can safely assume (hey, it's fiction) that all three of them are clean.

If the third is a longtime friend, I think there's no reason to mention the STI issue. The reader can infer they've talked about it, been tested, etc.

Stuff I'm thinking about:
-Having some sort of music in the background. Having each of them have a song that represents them will kinda help decide who is 'leading' -- when the music changes, change partners. :} Silly, or no?

Silly.

Sometimes people use games as icebreakers, but I don't think it's called for in the situation you're describing, especially since you're not using it as an icebreaker. My gut feeling is that it should just flow naturally.

The music changed, going from the slow, new-Agey strings to a more vibrant, rhythm and blues beat. Kendri grinned, and lifted her head, levering herself up on her arms and rolling off of my lady. Andrea stretched. "That's the end of my tune." she announced, sitting up. "A'right, that means I'm out, Kendri's on you, and I'm directing." I swallowed audibly. Kendri just started walking her fingers up my leg, wending their way towards my cock, which was looking surprisingly approaching 'willing and able to handle seconds'. 'Holy crumbs.' I thought, '...this is really going to happen...'

Kendri sang a few bars of her song pick. 'I'm lookin' for a fox...' She laughed. 'Or maybe in your case, more for a fu--eeep!'

Andrea had swatted her on the rump with the CD controller. 'New rule. No swearing. If you swear, I hit the Fast Forward button and you lose your turn."

Kendri eyed my lover. "Why's that now?"

"Ronnie doesn't care much for foul language, being a gentleman." she explained. "It's one of his turnoffs." I smiled apologetically.

Kendri narrowed her eyes at me, and nodded. "Noted, then, thanks for the tip. All right. I reserve the right to use as many double entendres as I can get away with, though..."

No "rump" and please change the "Kendri" and "Ronnie" names. "Rump" just seems like an outdated word and makes me think of rump roast. I kept getting hung up on "Kendri" - it's like a typo for "Kendra" or a nickname for the boy's name "Kendrick" for me. The guy shouldn't have a little boy's name like "Ronnie," either.

I don't mean to be hypercritical, but it'd bug me enough to click out of the story, and I think you'd prefer to know that.

But then there's the 'don't break the chain' idea I had, where the third person has had their climax and is busy cuddling and recovering, and then is reset just in time to tagteam with the partner that has just caught theirs.

My advice is to let the story develop itself, rather than forcing your ideas on it. That's where it's getting porn-like and unrealistic. Creativity is fine if your characters are creative, but less is more much of the time in a story like this.

- What -do- you call a three-person relationship, anyway? A triad? Or just 'threesome?'

Sex=Threesome
Relationship (as in some sort of poly arrangement)=Triad

- I really do like the idea of making this about the new girl's experiences, and I'm halfway thinking of writing from her point of view, but I have this lovely epiphany setup scene in mind where the husband and wife partner ship admit that they're both interested in the same woman and it doesn't destroy their relationship so much as give them the idea to approach the girl as a team.

How about focusing on the wife's experiences instead? Then you could have both the set-up AND the female-centric perspective. Plus, you could bring a bunch of other interesting ideas into it (e.g. some emotional turmoil, awkwardness between the friends after the fact that resolves, etc.) and allow it to lead to more chapters where just the women get together or whatever. If you go that route, you could potential even write additional chapters from the perspectives of the other characters.

Then again, you could still write from the new girl's perspective and just have the couple summarize the set-up scene in a conversation with her or something.

In short, you have a lot of options with this, but don't allow your little head to get the best of you unless you intend it to be a stroke story for a mostly male audience. If you don't want to go that route, I'd suggest getting yourself a female editor who has experience with F/F sex and relationships and ask her to temper you a bit if you start getting porn-ish or unrealistic. If you can't find one in the EF, PM me.

 

[CoyoteTales]

*smiles* No, no, no worries. I asked for feedback, good, bad, indifferent, and I'm not expecting to hit this one out of the park; it's a little fuzzy nebulous right now, and nothing is set in stone.

One of the things about me is that I'm irreverent and rarely serious; my writing reflects that. I also originally trained to write for kids stories, so sometimes late at night it creeps into my writing style. I'll toss the names. I was just pulling placeholders out of the air, and I hadn't thought about really what the names meant - just sort of initials for the folks that these characters are loosely based off of, using a different name. The way I brainstorm is what you see here - I write a snippet and then look back at it and decide whether it works. I kinda slept on the song idea and realized that three to six minutes for a song is a little short for a partner change, and 'silly' to boot. I liked it better than playing Auctioneer / Ringmaster, though.

Eh. Maybe I'm overthinking this. The notion of 'go with the flow' resonates pretty well.

Maybe I'm in over my head on this one - I want something that reads better than a stroke story, but I kinda realize that I'm trying to corral a _lot_ of ideas in all at once.

Thank you again.

-CT

 

[SweetErika]

Eh. Maybe I'm overthinking this. The notion of 'go with the flow' resonates pretty well.

Maybe I'm in over my head on this one - I want something that reads better than a stroke story, but I kinda realize that I'm trying to corral a _lot_ of ideas in all at once.

Thank you again.

-CT

I think that's a good bet. Maybe write your ideas on a separate page so you get them out and can either use them in this story or future pieces? Who knows, they may be really exceptional starting points or plot details in other stories, even if they really suck in this particular one!

I'm by no means a seasoned erotica or fiction writer, but I firmly believe pieces have to write themselves to a great extent. That's true even for posts here, at least in my experience - the great ones just flow right out (often as we let the fragments of them roll around in our heads for a bit). It's like just letting an orgasm happen vs. trying to have/force one.

At any rate, I do NOT believe you're in over your head. You're clearly a very good writer, and it says a lot that you're asking for help/bouncing ideas off of us because this is not your area of expertise. From what I've seen as an editor here, people who are in over their heads don't do that, they just keep rolling with whatever ideas pop into their brains at the time, then perhaps expect an editor to fix it for them later if they get a clue that something's not quite right (generally, they ask for help with proofreading or similarly simple, when in reality the piece has more holes in it than swiss cheese!). Like you said, you're in the beginning stages of this piece and still brainstorming possibilities. Let that happen, then reevaluate your ideas based on who your characters truly are and let the story write itself. But don't ditch this story, especially so early on - it has a ton of potential to be fantastic and appeal to a wide audience, IMO.