Proposed Secretary of the Treasury

[Boxlicker101]

Has anybody started a thread on the proposed secretary of the treasury not paying his income taxes? Whether it was deliberate evasion or ignorance of the tax laws, I would certainly think that would disqualify him from the office.

I'm positive it would be considered enough to disqualify any Republican.

ETA: Here's some more on this, but I don't know how reliable it is.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/Content/Article.aspx?rsrcid=42068

 

[voluptuary_manque]

As one columnist pointed out in the LA Times, it is a perfect example of just how overly complex and plain old stupid the U.S. tax code has become. If he can make a $34,000 mistake what are the rest of us supposed to do?

Do I hear anyone whispering "flat tax"?

 

[Boxlicker101]

As one columnist pointed out in the LA Times, it is a perfect example of just how overly complex and plain old stupid the U.S. tax code has become. If he can make a $34,000 mistake what are the rest of us supposed to do?

Do I hear anyone whispering "flat tax"?

The tax code is complex, but the man in question should be able to understand it, if he is to be in charge of enforcing it. Besides that, he was advised that he would need to calculate and pay the self-employment taxes that would be due.

Even if the flat tax had been in effect, the proposed secretary probably would have failed to pay it.

 

[midwestyankee]

Geithner was employed at the time by the International Monetary Fund. As an American under their employ, he was subject to only partial tax withholding from his paychecks. He was treated as an unusual form of independent contractor so that while some of his taxes were withheld from his regular paychecks, some were not. Apparently he was not the first, nor the last IMF employee to make the same mistake. And as soon as he discovered the error, he repaid his back taxes with interest penalties.

Let he who has never erred on his income tax return (or fudged on it) cast the next stone.

And don't give me that "he ought to know better" bs. He's not a CPA trained in international tax codes. Saying that Geithner ought to know better because he's up for Treasury Secretary is like saying that George W. Bush ought to be able to explain the infield fly rule because he once owned a baseball team.

 

[Xelebes]

The entire tax code should fit within a single book. If it is necessary to have it take up multiple volumes, then accountants cannot be trusted to carry it out as tax is such a small part of the job and the volumes should be left for cases on tax.

Fortunately, Canada's Tax Code is published in a single book (about 900 pages). Unfortunately, the US's Federal Tax Code takes up at least 12 books (over 10 000 pages).

 

[jomar]

One account I heard on NPR said that while he signed a form saying he'd pay the appropriate taxes (standard procedure), his accountant determined he didn't have to pay whatever he didn't pay.

 

[Huckleman2000]

One account I heard on NPR said that while he signed a form saying he'd pay the appropriate taxes (standard procedure), his accountant determined he didn't have to pay whatever he didn't pay.

Exactly.
The chances of someone in a position to be considered for Treasury Sec. doing their own taxes? About nil.

 

[Liar]

The entire tax code should fit within a single book.

The entire tax code should fit within a single postcard.

Trying the get the yearly tax and VAT crap done for my company, and I'm ready to start doing acid.

 

[Xelebes]

The entire tax code should fit within a single postcard.

Trying the get the yearly tax and VAT crap done for my company, and I'm ready to start doing acid.

Maybe for income tax, but we are talking about all the taxes, including tariffs, sales taxes, gasoline taxes and business taxes. But with income tax it gets more difficult because one can often hide dollar amounts in non-dollar amounts with a multitude of other assets.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The entire tax code should fit within a single book. If it is necessary to have it take up multiple volumes, then accountants cannot be trusted to carry it out as tax is such a small part of the job and the volumes should be left for cases on tax.

Fortunately, Canada's Tax Code is published in a single book (about 900 pages). Unfortunately, the US's Federal Tax Code takes up at least 12 books (over 10 000 pages).

Unless things have changed since I went to college, the laws etc. RE: personal income taxes are in a single volume. Other taxes, such as corp. income tax and excise taxes are in other vlumes.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Geithner was employed at the time by the International Monetary Fund. As an American under their employ, he was subject to only partial tax withholding from his paychecks. He was treated as an unusual form of independent contractor so that while some of his taxes were withheld from his regular paychecks, some were not. Apparently he was not the first, nor the last IMF employee to make the same mistake. And as soon as he discovered the error, he repaid his back taxes with interest penalties.

Let he who has never erred on his income tax return (or fudged on it) cast the next stone.

And don't give me that "he ought to know better" bs. He's not a CPA trained in international tax codes. Saying that Geithner ought to know better because he's up for Treasury Secretary is like saying that George W. Bush ought to be able to explain the infield fly rule because he once owned a baseball team.

According to the link I provided, he was advised by his employer that he was responsible for the taxes on his salary. After he was caught, he paid some of the back taxes, but not all. As for whether he prepares his own tax returns or not, I don't know. If a CPA or EA does them, they are only done as well as the information supplied.

W probably does know the infield fly rule. It's not really all that complicated. As an MBA, he might have done his own taxes too.

 

[midwestyankee]

According to the link I provided, he was advised by his employer that he was responsible for the taxes on his salary. After he was caught, he paid some of the back taxes, but not all. As for whether he prepares his own tax returns or not, I don't know. If a CPA or EA does them, they are only done as well as the information supplied.

W probably does know the infield fly rule. It's not really all that complicated. As an MBA, he might have done his own taxes too.

The link you provided was from a website whose stated reason for being is to counter a perceived liberal bias in news media. How about a more impartial source next time, eh Box?

 

[Boxlicker101]

The link you provided was from a website whose stated reason for being is to counter a perceived liberal bias in news media. How about a more impartial source next time, eh Box?

The link is to CNS News.com. What "impartial source" would you prefer?

 

[midwestyankee]

The link is to CNS News.com. What "impartial source" would you prefer?

Preferably one whose parent company is not dedicated to proving that liberalism is the bane of America.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Preferably one whose parent company is not dedicated to proving that liberalism is the bane of America.

Here's one from the NY Times. I don't trust them, but they are reporting the news, although with their own spin on it. Whatever happened, the man was issued the employer's share of Social Security taxes, and failed to deposit or remit it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/politics/14geithner.html

 

[midwestyankee]

Here's one from the NY Times. I don't trust them, but they are reporting the news, although with their own spin on it. Whatever happened, the man was issued the employer's share of Social Security taxes, and failed to deposit or remit it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/us/politics/14geithner.html

Fine. And on what basis does a simple mistake in an area that is not his specialty and is not why Obama is hiring him for the position, a disqualifying factor? Were all of W's nominees completely without error?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Fine. And on what basis does a simple mistake in an area that is not his specialty and is not why Obama is hiring him for the position, a disqualifying factor? Were all of W's nominees completely without error?

I'm not so sure it was a "simple mistake." His employer told him, in writing, his obligations to report self-employed social security taxes and other taxes, and he failed to do so.

The I.M.F., as an international organization, does not withhold payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare from its American employees’ paychecks. Those workers are required to pay the roughly 15 percent tax themselves, as if they were self-employed.

However, the I.M.F. does pay its American workers an amount equal to an employer’s half of the payroll taxes, with the expectation that they will use that to pay the I.R.S. The organization also gives them quarterly wage statements that include United States tax liabilities

I don't know if all of W's nominees were without error or not. Probably not. Do you know? I do know that his Supreme Court nominees were put under a microscope, as they should have been.

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm not so sure it was a "simple mistake." His employer told him, in writing, his obligations to report self-employed social security taxes and other taxes, and he failed to do so.

I don't know if all of W's nominees were without error or not. Probably not. Do you know? I do know that his Supreme Court nominees were put under a microscope, as they should have been.

All cabinet level nominees are "put under the microscope" as you put it. The question remains: how does this mistake disqualify the man to be Secretary of the Treasury?

 

[jomar]

One account I heard on NPR said that while he signed a form saying he'd pay the appropriate taxes (standard procedure), his accountant determined he didn't have to pay whatever he didn't pay.

According to the link I provided, he was advised by his employer that he was responsible for the taxes on his salary. After he was caught, he paid some of the back taxes, but not all. As for whether he prepares his own tax returns or not, I don't know. If a CPA or EA does them, they are only done as well as the information supplied.

W probably does know the infield fly rule. It's not really all that complicated. As an MBA, he might have done his own taxes too.

In case you missed my post.

ETA: Ah. I see your NYT link mentions this. Never mind.

 

[Boxlicker101]

All cabinet level nominees are "put under the microscope" as you put it. The question remains: how does this mistake disqualify the man to be Secretary of the Treasury?

I don't know if it disqualifies him or not, but it does raise doubts. As I said, I'm not sure it was a "mistake." He was informed of his obligations and failed to live up to them.

Jo, I did see your post. Being second or third hand hearsay from an anonymous source, I didn't place much credence in it. Besides that, if somebody chooses to accept incompetent advice, that is their fault. Maybe he can sue the accountant for professional malpractice or something.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't know if it disqualifies him or not, but it does raise doubts. As I said, I'm not sure it was a "mistake." He was informed of his obligations and failed to live up to them.

Jo, I did see your post. Being second or third hand hearsay from an anonymous source, I didn't place much credence in it. Besides that, if somebody chooses to accept incompetent advice, that is their fault. Maybe he can sue the accountant for professional malpractice or something.

You mean like accepting the legal opinions of John Yoo? And like accepting the cherry-picked intelligence directed by the office of the VP?

 

[Boxlicker101]

You mean like accepting the legal opinions of John Yoo? And like accepting the cherry-picked intelligence directed by the office of the VP?

If W has done such things, he has certainly been roundly criticized for them, on this forum and on many other places.

 

[off2bed]

All cabinet level nominees are "put under the microscope" as you put it. The question remains: how does this mistake disqualify the man to be Secretary of the Treasury?

No one is above the law. Or is that too high a standard for ya? Why is this even debatable?

 

[midwestyankee]

If W has done such things, he has certainly been roundly criticized for them, on this forum and on many other places.

Being criticized was not the point: being held responsible is the point.

You still haven't explained why Tim Geithner is not qualified to be the Secretary of the Treasury.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Being criticized was not the point: being held responsible is the point.

You still haven't explained why Tim Geithner is not qualified to be the Secretary of the Treasury.

W has been held responsible for everything he has done, and even for some things he did not do.

If a person is so inept or dishonest that he fails to properly file his own tax forms, even though instructed how to do so, how can he be put in a place where he will be dealing with the tax reports of millions of others? Wou you let a fox guard the henhouse? (I don't mean a stone fox. She could guard anything of mine she wants.} Would you hire a known embezzler to head your bank's security? Would you hire a drug addict to guard the police evidence room where millions of dollars worth of drugs are stored?

If I were in the US Senate, I would probably vote against him on this basis, unless he could explain what the problem was. So far, he says he made a mistake. How could he make such a mistake when he was instructed by those who knew on the correct procedure? I don't mean some anonymous accountant; I mean his employers who told him how to deal with his taxes, and even gave him money to use in paying them.

ETA: And this is from the NY Times telling how he failed to do what he should have done:

However, the I.M.F. does pay its American workers an amount equal to an employer’s half of the payroll taxes, with the expectation that they will use that to pay the I.R.S. The organization also gives them quarterly wage statements that include United States tax liabilities.

Mr. Geithner fully paid his state and federal income taxes. In failing to pay his payroll taxes, he in effect kept the money the I.M.F. had contributed toward his liability. However, Mr. Geithner’s accountant told him he was exempt from self-employment taxes, according to Obama transition

Because of its extreme liberal bias, I don't entirely trust the NYT, but here they are reporting on a liberal, and are probably telling the truth.