Prop 8 ruled Unconstitutional!

[3113]

Also, another reason why you can't make that argument is because the converse also applies. If a gay judge is more likely to overturn a gay marriage ban due to bias, then isn't a straight judge more likely to uphold a gay marriage ban due to bias?

Precisely. Bi-sexuals would have to rule on all cases having to do with gay rights as they'd be the only ones not oriented toward one side or the other and so free of any accusation of bias

 

[Huckleman2000]

Precisely. Bi-sexuals would have to rule on all cases having to do with gay rights as they'd be the only ones not oriented toward one side or the other and so free of any accusation of bias

If the bi's I know where in charge, this'd be a much happier world. Probably not more efficiently run, though.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

According to the Sacramento Bee, August 6, 2010, page A9:

"After Vaughn Walker was nominated for he federal court in 1987, gay activists took issue with his role for the U.S. Olympic Committee who successfully sued to bar a San Francisco sports festival from calling itself the "Gay Olympics."

Granted, this was before his appointment to the bench, but it demonstrates that he doesn't automatically take the pro-gay position.

If it is true that he has taken the pro-gay view on every case that went before him since then, based on bias rather than the merits of the case,, then I would expect every one of those rulings to be overturned by higher courts. But if they were, don't you think that Fox News would have told us?

The article, by Peter Hecht, goes on to say:

Ah! The old TWO HEADED SNAKE FALLACY.

Hitler gave some Jews perfect immunity from Nazi persecution, too. He was fond of his mother's Jewish doctor, so the man lived in peace during the whole 3rd Reich. Hitler also exempted Jewish veterans of World War 1 who were decorated for valor, etc.

So whats your point? Hitler was nice to Jews?

 

[swordandsandle]

Ah! The old TWO HEADED SNAKE FALLACY.

Hitler gave some Jews perfect immunity from Nazi persecution, too. He was fond of his mother's Jewish doctor, so the man lived in peace during the whole 3rd Reich. Hitler also exempted Jewish veterans of World War 1 who were decorated for valor, etc.

So whats your point? Hitler was nice to Jews?

You are using somebody with a certibfiable mental illness as a counterexample.

Homosexuality, despite what the religous right says, is no more a mental illness then religous psycho-fixation is.

All I will say is, people can and will have bias. However, if their bias is backed up by fact, then they have all the rights in the world to flaunt it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You are using somebody with a certibfiable mental illness as a counterexample.

Homosexuality, despite what the religous right says, is no more a mental illness then religous psycho-fixation is.

All I will say is, people can and will have bias. However, if their bias is backed up by fact, then they have all the rights in the world to flaunt it.

Oh! Hitler was no more crazee than most of the people on this board. He hated communists and hated Jews cuz most Jews are communists; had he murdered communists and left the Jews alone he'd be a hero today. Stalin did much worse than Hitler, murdered more Jews, and the world still kisses his ass.

Hitler was simply wrong about the wrong things at the wrong time. He was more a loser than crazed. Killing 6 million Jews was a bad thing, but killing 25 million Russians was a good thing.

 

[rgraham666]

it goes farther than that...


"the people" is usually read as "the majority of the people."

One thing that was of major concern to many of our founding fathers was the idea that a simple majority could run rampant. And rightfully so.

Simple majority rule does nothing to protect minorities.

In the latter part of the 18th century, a simple majority of British subjects felt it was entirely proper for certain foreign colonies to pay extra taxes in order to recoup for the crown expenditures made on their behalf during a recent war with France. How did that turn out?

I'm afraid the people allowed to vote in Britain back then were not a majority of the people living there. Britain was in the grip of the Rotten Borough system as well as the demographic changes being brought about by the Industrial Revolution.

Also much like today, the decisions about taxation were made in Cabinet, not in Parliament.

Let's also not forget that one of the Intolerable Acts was intolerable because it gave rights to French Catholics and that pissed off a lot of American colonists.

 

[Belegon]

Let's not turn the Prop 8 focused thread into a thread about voting rights in the British Empire circa 1770. I will gladly grant both of you any and all points you want to make to stay on topic.


On topic, although we will not see any actual decisions over the weekend, I find the way public figures are pushing against a stay gratifying, if not necessarily helpful.

Personally, considering the way the decision was written, I don't see why he would grant a stay pending appeal based on the already presented evidence. I hope I am right about that.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Let's not turn the Prop 8 focused thread into a thread about voting rights in the British Empire circa 1770. I will gladly grant both of you any and all points you want to make to stay on topic.


On topic, although we will not see any actual decisions over the weekend, I find the way public figures are pushing against a stay gratifying, if not necessarily helpful.

Personally, considering the way the decision was written, I don't see why he would grant a stay pending appeal based on the already presented evidence. I hope I am right about that.

I hope so-- so much that I can't talk about it.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I'm not sure he will, much as I might like to see it. My logic goes thus: If Walker allows gay marriages to go forth pending appeal and thousands upon thousands of couples marry, it could be seen as presenting the Ninth with a sort of fait accompli that would prejudice their decision leaving the Court stuck as "The Bad Guys" if they rule against. A ruling in favor of the defense would like result in all of those marriages being declared null and void. Who wants to be responsible for that?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Let's not turn the Prop 8 focused thread into a thread about voting rights in the British Empire circa 1770. I will gladly grant both of you any and all points you want to make to stay on topic.


On topic, although we will not see any actual decisions over the weekend, I find the way public figures are pushing against a stay gratifying, if not necessarily helpful.

Personally, considering the way the decision was written, I don't see why he would grant a stay pending appeal based on the already presented evidence. I hope I am right about that.

IDIOTA

These same people wanna keep the pot boiling, pissing off more and more Tea Baggers. November is close. Keep their noses shoved in the Fairy Frolics and the Democrats get fucked.

 

[Huckleman2000]

I'm not sure he will, much as I might like to see it. My logic goes thus: If Walker allows gay marriages to go forth pending appeal and thousands upon thousands of couples marry, it could be seen as presenting the Ninth with a sort of fait accompli that would prejudice their decision leaving the Court stuck as "The Bad Guys" if they rule against. A ruling in favor of the defense would like result in all of those marriages being declared null and void. Who wants to be responsible for that?

On the other hand, given the depth of the Findings of Fact and the pathetic defense arguments offered, with no supporting testimony - How is an appellate court going to rule otherwise?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Democrats will eat this shit sandwich if the marriages happen, and there are plenty of ways the folks can fuck with Democrats. The Usual Suspects dont understand that come November their fun is over, and it may be over for a long time. After the ridicule and disrespect the Supremes took from Obama and Democrats, theyre likely waiting for something juicy to stick up Obama's ass.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by voluptuary_manque
I'm not sure he will, much as I might like to see it. My logic goes thus: If Walker allows gay marriages to go forth pending appeal and thousands upon thousands of couples marry, it could be seen as presenting the Ninth with a sort of fait accompli that would prejudice their decision leaving the Court stuck as "The Bad Guys" if they rule against. A ruling in favor of the defense would like result in all of those marriages being declared null and void. Who wants to be responsible for that?

On the other hand, given the depth of the Findings of Fact and the pathetic defense arguments offered, with no supporting testimony - How is an appellate court going to rule otherwise?

I'm of at least two minds about this. If same sex marriage becomes legal as of the date of the ruling, and thousands of these marriages are performed, and the Supremes end up saying something like "No, the state can do this. It is not contrary to the US Constitution," what then. SCOTUS would be saying the amendment to the state constitution is valid and therefore all the same sex marriages that have taken place since its passage are invalid. The couples will probably mostly stay together, but they would no longer be married, and inheritances and other matters that married couples take for granted would be affected. It could be a real mess.

On the other hand, it will take the Supremes years to render an opinion, and those couples who have beeen fighting for the right to get married might have to wait that long. This does not seem right or fair.

The same sex marriages between the time the first law was struck down and the passage of the state constitutional amendment are valid, and that won't change but, if the amendment is upheld, the new marriages will be invalidated retroactively.

At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's... amazingly sense-making, Box. I'm impressed!

 

[Boxlicker101]

That's... amazingly sense-making, Box. I'm impressed!

I always make sense.

 

[amicus]

You are using somebody with a certibfiable mental illness as a counterexample.

Homosexuality, despite what the religous right says, is no more a mental illness then religous psycho-fixation is.

All I will say is, people can and will have bias. However, if their bias is backed up by fact, then they have all the rights in the world to flaunt it.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Until political pressure in 1973, the DSM listed homosexuality as a mental disorder:

Following controversy and protests from gay activists at APA annual conferences from 1970 to 1973, as well as the emergence of new data from researchers such as Alfred Kinsey and Evelyn Hooker, the seventh printing of the DSM-II, in 1974, no longer listed homosexuality as a category of disorder. But through the efforts of psychiatrist Robert Spitzer, who had led the DSM-II development committee, a vote by the APA trustees in 1973, and confirmed by the wider APA membership in 1974, the diagnosis was replaced with the category of "sexual orientation disturbance",[10] presently referred to as gender identity disorder (GID).

Gender Identity Disorder can and has destroyed many, many lives...think before you type.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

How many pissing contests will STELLA win? I'm betting zero. Probably piss on herself at the urinal, too.

 

[statsultan]

Until political pressure in 1973, the DSM listed homosexuality as a mental disorder:



Gender Identity Disorder can and has destroyed many, many lives...think before you type.

Amicus

Searching for that 'ignore' button. Ah, there it is!

 

[TxRad]

Searching for that 'ignore' button. Ah, there it is!

Welcome to the bright side.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dear Reader,

The constant problem with the Usual Suspects is they wont leave anyone on IGNORE! They get bored and antsy and are compulsed to whoop; so OFF goes their iggy buttons, and back they come for another eruption of whooping & whining.

 

[Dragonlipz]

Gender Identity Disorder can and has destroyed many, many lives...think before you type.

Amicus

Like yours when you expressed your unrequited desire for that black dude at the radio station? The one that fired you for being a fag? Right?

The good news is that although he's straight and always has been, you can find yourself another nubian prince and marry him in California.......It's just a couple of hours south of you............

 

[Dragonlipz]

Dear Reader,

The constant problem with the Usual Suspects is they wont leave anyone on IGNORE! They get bored and antsy and are compulsed to whoop; so OFF goes their iggy buttons, and back they come for another eruption of whooping & whining.

I ignore no one.....as I've stated countless times: JBJ and AmiCoot have a perfect and indelible right to be as racist and uninformed as they want.....let them wallow in their stupidity....they're entitled...

 

[3113]

I ignore no one.....as I've stated countless times: JBJ and AmiCoot have a perfect and indelible right to be as racist and uninformed as they want.....let them wallow in their stupidity....they're entitled...

How does the ignore button keep them from doing this? if it does, then it has awesome powers tat should be put to use!

 

[Stella_Omega]

How does the ignore button keep them from doing this? if it does, then it has awesome powers tat should be put to use!

This. They are going to wallow in stupidity with or without witnesses. Much like the BP pipe spewing out pollution whether we watched the news or didn't.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I ignore no one.....as I've stated countless times: JBJ and AmiCoot have a perfect and indelible right to be as racist and uninformed as they want.....let them wallow in their stupidity....they're entitled...

Dont forget to include homophobic, misogynist, misanthropic, bipedal, former smoker, xenophobic, and omnivorous. I was a thespian once or twice but took the cure.

I really recommend being a racist, though. I laugh my ass off when I see the whole gang of cripples limping around with their affirmative action crutches begging for a handout, hand, check, and excuse to sit life out. So I embrace my racism manfully and unashamedly. certain that God is a white boy. I can live without rhythm.