Pronouns and proper nouns

[swingerjoe]

Hello, everyone. I'd like to get your opinions on the usage of pronouns vs. proper nouns in your writing. In writing my stories, I've encountered an issue, and I'm not exactly sure how it should be resolved.

This issue is best explained by example. If I am writing a story about a man and woman, I could write something like:

"Jake unclasped her bra and rubbed her breasts."

However, if the story involves two women, then writing "Noelle unclasped her bra and rubbed her breasts" would seem to imply that Noelle is taking off her own bra and rubbing her own breasts.

Therefore, I believe the proper, grammatically-correct, way of writing this phrase would be to use proper nouns:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts."

This is all well and good. But the problem arises when the story continues to describe the interaction between these two characters, and the over-use of proper nouns becomes rather clunky-sounding if you were to read it out loud:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts. Noelle then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around Meagan's nipples. As Noelle teased Meagan's nipples, Noelle's hands roamed behind Meagan's back and down to Meagan's ass."

Etc.

You can see the issue.

I believe that once the first-person point of view is established, it is grammatically correct to use a pronoun to describe that first person, as long as it is is consistent. For example:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts. She then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around Meagan's nipples. As she teased Meagan's nipples, her hands roamed behind Meagan's back, and down to Meagan's ass."

But this is still rather clunky. And if I were to substitute too many pronouns, it would become incredibly confusing:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed her breasts. She then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around her nipples. As she teased her nipples, her hands roamed behind her back, and down to her ass."

As you can see, it's difficult to discern who is doing what in that sentence.

In your opinions, how should that paragraph be written, in a way that is both clear and grammatically correct?

Thanks in advance!

 

[TxRad]

Once you establish the names for both, use the name of the aggressor and pronouns for the other. or you could use things like the younger woman if she is or the blonde, or some type of descriptor along those lines.

Go read some of the better stories in group to get ideas of how this is done.

 

[lovecraft68]

I had that problem in a FFFM scene. She and her cannot accurately paint the picture so it seems as if you do have to overuse the names.

Unless maybe they have discerning features. For instance if it was interracial and you said, her creamy skin you would know its whoever the white woman is. Or hair and eye color can help.

Her long blonde hair fell across Megan's breasts.....so if we know Lucy is a blonde...

Get it?

Uh, I still really don't sometimes.

 

[RejectReality]

Any time you're writing group, do your best to give everyone a different hair color. That's a quick and easy substitute for the names that is more specific than a pronoun and lets you mix things up.

Ethnic background. The more diversity you have in the participants, the easier it is to distinguish between them.

If there's enough introduction to the characters, you can utilize other things such as profession. If one participant is established as a model, you can use that as a substitute. Maybe one participant is a co-worker of the MC, while the others are from other facets of his/her life. Boss. Neighbor. Don't forget wife and husband or boyfriend and girlfriend. All useful when appropriate.

Relative age is something you can take advantage of, if it fits the story. An 18yr old blonde and a 35yr old Milf.

Give the characters names that have common short forms. Susan->Sue. It helps in a pinch.

Shaved? Trimmed? Ponytail? ( not connected to the previous two, that would be weird ) Long hair. Short hair. Grooming/style choices are something else you can use in a pinch.

If there's dialog, you can take advantage of dialect.

Diversity of participants will save you a load of headaches. If you've got one guy with four long haired 19 year old blondes, you'll be pulling your own hair out three paragraphs in.

 

[sr71plt]

It's all a combination of what is clear and what reads most smoothly.

In the example given, the change is now clear, but it could read more smoothly by having differentiated the two women in other ways and then using that differentiation, e.g.:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed [another differentiation, e.g., the blonde's/the younger woman's/the smaller woman's] breasts."

Yes it's hard and takes effort.

 

[Acktion]

I don't know how correct it is, but I'm encountering this very thing in the story I am wrestling with now. Or maybe it is wrestling with me?

Anyway, it involves two females and one male. The way I have gotten around it is to use the name of the female followed by pronouns until it's time to switch and then I use the name followed by "she" and "her" until it's time to switch again.

My thought was and is that the use of a gender specific pronoun after a proper noun of a member of that gender will point back to the last proper noun used.

And, thank you so much RR... now I have this image in my head of a girl pulling down her panties with a pony tail dangling between her thighs. <sigh>

 

[Weird Harold]

Once you establish the names for both, use the name of the aggressor and pronouns for the other. or you could use things like the younger woman if she is or the blonde, or some type of descriptor along those lines.

Go read some of the better stories in group to get ideas of how this is done.

Readers will be able to follow the action using TX's advice. Just remember that any time the pronoun deviates from the obvious antecedent, you need to clarify:

"Noelle removed Megan's panties. She massaged her pussy while fondling her own breast."

It should be fairly obvious that Megan is the Object of any action except where there is the qualifier "own" which switches (only) that action back to Noelle.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts."

That particular sentence could be handled with "Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed her breasts". Grammatically "her" is ambiguous, but context strongly implies that it's Meagan.

First person perspective is another option, though it won't save you in a same-sex threesome

 

[robertreams]

Hello, everyone. I'd like to get your opinions on the usage of pronouns vs. proper nouns in your writing. In writing my stories, I've encountered an issue, and I'm not exactly sure how it should be resolved.

This issue is best explained by example. If I am writing a story about a man and woman, I could write something like:

"Jake unclasped her bra and rubbed her breasts."

However, if the story involves two women, then writing "Noelle unclasped her bra and rubbed her breasts" would seem to imply that Noelle is taking off her own bra and rubbing her own breasts.

Therefore, I believe the proper, grammatically-correct, way of writing this phrase would be to use proper nouns:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts."

This is all well and good. But the problem arises when the story continues to describe the interaction between these two characters, and the over-use of proper nouns becomes rather clunky-sounding if you were to read it out loud:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts. Noelle then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around Meagan's nipples. As Noelle teased Meagan's nipples, Noelle's hands roamed behind Meagan's back and down to Meagan's ass."

Etc.

You can see the issue.

I believe that once the first-person point of view is established, it is grammatically correct to use a pronoun to describe that first person, as long as it is is consistent. For example:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed Meagan's breasts. She then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around Meagan's nipples. As she teased Meagan's nipples, her hands roamed behind Meagan's back, and down to Meagan's ass."

But this is still rather clunky. And if I were to substitute too many pronouns, it would become incredibly confusing:

"Noelle unclasped Meagan's bra, and rubbed her breasts. She then leaned forward and licked in soft circles around her nipples. As she teased her nipples, her hands roamed behind her back, and down to her ass."

As you can see, it's difficult to discern who is doing what in that sentence.

In your opinions, how should that paragraph be written, in a way that is both clear and grammatically correct?

Thanks in advance!

listen to the more experienced writers in here, you can learn a lot. if it makes a difference, the rule and common sense both tell us the pronoun refers to the closest preceding noun. Consider this example I read in the San Francisco Chronicle:
An off-duty San Francisco police officer was shot by the perpetrator in his stomach.I run nto this misuse all the time in stories I edit for other writers. The advice about giving your characters attributes by which to differentiate them is great advice, because by the time they are kissing, sucking, etc. You should have already developed their personas and personalities enough to have several reference points, not merely hair color. One can have much larger equipment, or a bitchy nature, etc. Another way to distinguish is by their realtionship to one another. Above all, keep writing.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I ran into a slightly more difficult version of this problem when I tried to write a threesome scene involving identical twins. It became so frustrating that I eventually cut it back to a twosome, with the third just watching.

 

[TxRad]

I ran into a slightly more difficult version of this problem when I tried to write a threesome scene involving identical twins. It became so frustrating that I eventually cut it back to a twosome, with the third just watching.

Try it with triples.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Try it with triples.

I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I ran into a slightly more difficult version of this problem when I tried to write a threesome scene involving identical twins. It became so frustrating that I eventually cut it back to a twosome, with the third just watching.

One option there would be to embrace the confusion: "I didn't know whose hand that was and I didn't care" kinda thing.

 

[TxRad]

One option there would be to embrace the confusion: "I didn't know whose hand that was and I didn't care" kinda thing.

Been there, done that. It was good for a giggle or two anyway.

 

[SecondCircle]

I recently had quite the dance with this in the last story I submitted. It involved four guys and one lucky female. To add to the nightmare, the men wore masks that hid even their eyes, and were anonymous. No names, just titles of a sort that still served that purpose.

Sounds a lot worse than it really was to handle. I did use diversity and a little bit of setup to carve the four male characters into the readers minds. One of them was a brute. He was really big and masculine (more so I guess than his fellows.) Every time I referred to him in any way, the wordplay and connotation changed. Everything he did was rough and powerful, he grunted and growled, the texture of his skin and his touch was unique, his hands were big and so on. The adverbs and all that took on a more "forceful" or "violent" feel. His hips "crashed" against her, he "clutched" her, his hands "clawed" at her hair. When it came time for that beast of a man, you knew it was "him".

Another dude was pale and slim, and was a lot quieter and graceful in his actions. Another was black, and the fourth was POV character, so he got that fun "I" thingy. But the POV switched from that guy to the woman too though. But using the techniques others have mentioned (diversity in characters, knowing the characters, all that) and pairing that advice with a bit of creative wordplay, it all worked out. It didn't get repetitive or clunky, the pronouns and descriptors fit each character, and you could easily tell what was going on and what went where and all that. I think. Hope.

That's the most important thing, smooth immersive read that doesn't get confusing or stale.

 

[JKendallDane]

This is an every story conundrum for those of us that write GM or LS. It is a constant challenge to make sure you don't confuse the readers or even worse: get yourself confused! I've found that inserting dialogue and proper paragraph breaks during hot action scenes can solve a big part of the problem.

My worst nightmare was when I wrote a stroker about four frat boys, a pizza delivery guy, and a pool table...almost had to draw up a flow chart before that one all came together!