Professions Dominated By Women.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Professions dominated by women are experiencing significant shortages of workers and the average age of workers is steadily increasing, yet the pay remains near the bottom of all professions.

 

[sr71plt]

Could this be a victim of cause and effect? Hardly surprising.

 

[Guest]

Generalizations.

Airline pilot is another such profession. One can hardly say it is a woman dominated profession. It answers to all criteria above.

IT professional is another one.

Women simply tended to do the dirty work no one wanted to do. Now we don't give a fuck either.

Maharat

 

[wordofvirtue]

yep, just look at nursing -- more women are retiring out (or leaving the hospitals because they can't handle the workload they could when they were younger) than are entering the field. Why anyone would want to go into nursing is beyond me and I've been slaving away at it for the past 20 years. I told my daughter I'd help her pay for anything but nursing school. For the amount of responsibility you have, the amount of education you require, and the liability you take on it simply doesn't pay enough.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

WORD

Your sentiments are exactly what most nurses say to reporters about conditions in the hospitals.

 

[SeaCat]

WORD

Your sentiments are exactly what most nurses say to reporters about conditions in the hospitals.

Unfortunately they say these things to reporers because they happen to be true.

Cat

 

[Pure]

Professions dominated by women are experiencing significant shortages of workers and the average age of workers is steadily increasing, yet the pay remains near the bottom of all professions.

i rephrase as follows:


pure Professions dominated by women are experiencing significant shortages of workers and the average age of workers is steadily increasing

coincidentally, the pay remains near the bottom of all professions.

P: teaching and nursing are likely paid little, because after all, the woman has a husband (she doesn't need as much) and further is going to take years off for the kids.

it seems to me that both professions will remain in crisis. most new teachers quit within five year. teachers and nurses have their organizations to work for them, but have never had the clout of medical associations, law societies, etc.

teachers in the US, in particular, often the target of right wingers for any number of reasons from mustaches, to teaching evolution, are in weak position.

some nurses can grab the rocketship up: work as a nurse to a plastic surgeon. maybe own a share of the cosmetic clinic.

as with teachers, there's no future in serving the public generally, and its unwashed, in particular.

 

[Emerald_Dragon]

Unfortunately you are right about that. Teachers don't make enough. Then people whine about how they get the whole summer off, NOT! My husband spent at least a fourth of his summer attending classes so he could keep his licence, plus he added a part time job. If you add the time spent cleaning up the classroom after the school year and prepping it for the new school year his summer doesn't add up to much.

Add to that the fact that teachers bring their work home with them: papers to grade, lesson plans to write, and if you have anything to do with special education, a shit load of paperwork. And all of the activities you are expected to attend, coaching various sports, teachers meetings, conferences three times a year ect.....

This is not even counting the stress of political bullshit, union issues, dealing with parents that wonder why their kids are not getting better grades or having behavior issues.

My husband got a job in the IT field and is making at least 10 grand more than he did as a teacher (for a starting wage), works 8-5, gets better benefits and is able to spend more time with the kids and I.

And people wonder why there is a shortage of teachers....

 

[slyc_willie]

Professions dominated by women are experiencing significant shortages of workers and the average age of workers is steadily increasing, yet the pay remains near the bottom of all professions.

Just what professions are these?

I find it interesting that JBJ poses a comment like this, without giving any specifics, and very quickly, teaching and nursing are the two big professions some assume he is talking about.

Are teaching and nursing still dominated by women? I'm not asking this to challenge anyone, but to know. I've been in the hospital six times over the past four and a half years. I have to say that the number of female nurses to male nurses, in three different states, has been about equal.

I also know quite a few teachers in middle and high school. I myself was one. I wouldn't say that the ratio is equal across the board, but it definitely can't be as heavily biased towards women as it may have been, say, twenty years ago.

Maybe JBJ started this thread to bait out our own sexist ideas about what professions are more likely to be followed by women than men. In that case, this has been an interesting study. Or, maybe, he just wasn't that clear to begin with.

I wonder.

 

[trysail]

Women make good corporate financiers because of their literacy and attention to detail. Lots of people are surprised by how many women have done well in the field.

 

[SeaCat]

Just what professions are these?

I find it interesting that JBJ poses a comment like this, without giving any specifics, and very quickly, teaching and nursing are the two big professions some assume he is talking about.

Are teaching and nursing still dominated by women? I'm not asking this to challenge anyone, but to know. I've been in the hospital six times over the past four and a half years. I have to say that the number of female nurses to male nurses, in three different states, has been about equal.

I also know quite a few teachers in middle and high school. I myself was one. I wouldn't say that the ratio is equal across the board, but it definitely can't be as heavily biased towards women as it may have been, say, twenty years ago.

Maybe JBJ started this thread to bait out our own sexist ideas about what professions are more likely to be followed by women than men. In that case, this has been an interesting study. Or, maybe, he just wasn't that clear to begin with.

I wonder.

Slyc,

I'm not sure where you were in the Hospital but here on my unit there are three male Nurses. Two of us, (one R.N. and one Aide,) are on day shift. The other, an Aide like me is on the overnight. This is opposed to 20+ female Nurses.

My wifes unit has no male Nurses.

What always amazes and amuses me is the fighting against males entering the Nursing Field. There is a shortage of Nurses, there is a shortage of peopleentering the Nursing Field at any level and yet there is a resistance to males entering it.

Cat

 

[slyc_willie]

Slyc,

I'm not sure where you were in the Hospital but here on my unit there are three male Nurses. Two of us, (one R.N. and one Aide,) are on day shift. The other, an Aide like me is on the overnight. This is opposed to 20+ female Nurses.

My wifes unit has no male Nurses.

What always amazes and amuses me is the fighting against males entering the Nursing Field. There is a shortage of Nurses, there is a shortage of peopleentering the Nursing Field at any level and yet there is a resistance to males entering it.

Cat

The three different states I was talking about were Texas, New Mexico, and Florida. Texas I can easily understand. Where I live, the medical profession is one of the major industries. Men and women alike vie for equal position, according to students I know.

New Mexico and Florida . . . I haven't had as much intimate knowledge concerning the politics of female/male hiring for those positions.

All I am saying is that there seems to be an automatic bias -- STILL -- toward what constitutes a female-dominated field. I'm not attacking anyone's ideas or beliefs, nor the politics. I just want to know. Are there really fields in which women automatically dominate? Are there those in which men have all the choice stations?

 

[SeaCat]

The three different states I was talking about were Texas, New Mexico, and Florida. Texas I can easily understand. Where I live, the medical profession is one of the major industries. Men and women alike vie for equal position, according to students I know.

New Mexico and Florida . . . I haven't had as much intimate knowledge concerning the politics of female/male hiring for those positions.

All I am saying is that there seems to be an automatic bias -- STILL -- toward what constitutes a female-dominated field. I'm not attacking anyone's ideas or beliefs, nor the politics. I just want to know. Are there really fields in which women automatically dominate? Are there those in which men have all the choice stations?

Damned if I know, but here in southern Florida Women dominate Nursing. A male trying to get into it has to fight.

Cat

 

[slyc_willie]

Damned if I know, but here in southern Florida Women dominate Nursing. A male trying to get into it has to fight.

Cat

Hate to open this can of worms, but you seem to have held your own, Cat. Do you think it's because of skill?

 

[sr71plt]

Unfortunately you are right about that. Teachers don't make enough. Then people whine about how they get the whole summer off, NOT! My husband spent at least a fourth of his summer attending classes so he could keep his licence, plus he added a part time job. If you add the time spent cleaning up the classroom after the school year and prepping it for the new school year his summer doesn't add up to much.

Add to that the fact that teachers bring their work home with them: papers to grade, lesson plans to write, and if you have anything to do with special education, a shit load of paperwork. And all of the activities you are expected to attend, coaching various sports, teachers meetings, conferences three times a year ect.....

This is not even counting the stress of political bullshit, union issues, dealing with parents that wonder why their kids are not getting better grades or having behavior issues.

My husband got a job in the IT field and is making at least 10 grand more than he did as a teacher (for a starting wage), works 8-5, gets better benefits and is able to spend more time with the kids and I.

And people wonder why there is a shortage of teachers....

I think teachers in most areas should be paid more too, but this reasoning seems myopic to me. I had to take outside education to maintain credentials too and I had to bring work home too and I was expected to put in extra time and effort in my job too--and this was on a 12-month work schedule, not a 9-month schedule.

This is similiar reasoning to minsters I've heard complain about having to attend evening church meetings on top of their ministering jobs--well, they expect their parisioners to put that much time in on church business on top of the jobs they already have also.

In my area, at least, teachers are getting better salaries than most everyone else in service industries who is working a 12-month job. They are not the only ones by any means who need two jobs to make ends meet--even with two incomes already in the family.

I think the reason there's a shortage of teachers goes beyond salary. The whole job market has opened up more to women then when teaching and nursing were the main job possibilities for woman. And men aren't filling in the teaching gaps--because, on top of all the usual aggravation for teachers, men teachers have to walk on eggs for fear of being charged with inappropriate conduct--and both male and female teachers are increasingly limited in what they can do to control their classrooms.

 

[slyc_willie]

I think teachers in most areas should be paid more too, but this reasoning seems myopic to me. I had to take outside education to maintain credentials too and I had to bring work home too and I was expected to put in extra time and effort in my job too--and this was on a 12-month work schedule, not a 9-month schedule.

This is similiar reasoning to minsters I've heard complain about having to attend evening church meetings on top of their ministering jobs--well, they expect their parisioners to put that much time in on church business on top of the jobs they already have also.

In my area, at least, teachers are getting better salaries than most everyone else in service industries who is working a 12-month job. They are not the only ones by any means who need two jobs to make ends meet--even with two incomes already in the family.

I think the reason there's a shortage of teachers goes beyond salary. The whole job market has opened up more to women then when teaching and nursing were the main job possibilities for woman. And men aren't filling in the teaching gaps--because, on top of all the usual aggravation for teachers, men teachers have to walk on eggs for fear of being charged with inappropriate conduct--and both male and female teachers are increasingly limited in what they can do to control their classrooms.

See, here's where I'm in a quandary. There are some professions that I think should be entered into, not for the amount of money the position offers, but the esoteric/moral rewards. Nursing, military, law enforcement, teaching. Go ahead, call me socialist or whatever, but having served in two of the above fields, I think I have something to say.

I believe no one should enter the military for any other reason than to become a soldier. The same for becoming a teacher, nurse, or policeman/woman. Such endeavors, to me, are the mark of someone who wants to make a difference. Not make money.

Go ahead, attack me.

 

[The_Fool]

social workers...

 

[sr71plt]

See, here's where I'm in a quandary. There are some professions that I think should be entered into, not for the amount of money the position offers, but the esoteric/moral rewards. Nursing, military, law enforcement, teaching. Go ahead, call me socialist or whatever, but having served in two of the above fields, I think I have something to say.

I believe no one should enter the military for any other reason than to become a soldier. The same for becoming a teacher, nurse, or policeman/woman. Such endeavors, to me, are the mark of someone who wants to make a difference. Not make money.

Go ahead, attack me.

Won't drag down and out with you, but there's only one job I can think of that someone should be expected to work without receiving a stable living wage--and that's philanthropist, because they already have their money.

And the concept of esoteric/moral rewards is all in the perception anyway. I became a spy primarily on the esoteric/moral rewards determination (shouldn't complain about what's going on if you're not willing to be on the inside and have a say in what's going to go on). Does a soldier or nurse serve the greater good any more than a sanitation engineer? (Certainly does more than a pro football quarterback in my book.)

 

[slyc_willie]

Won't drag down and out with you, but there's only one job I can think of that someone should be expected to work without receiving a stable living wage--and that's philanthropist, because they already have their money.

And the concept of esoteric/moral rewards is all in the perception anyway. I became a spy primarily on the esoteric/moral rewards determination (shouldn't complain about what's going on if you're not willing to be on the inside and have a say in what's going to go on). Does a soldier or nurse serve the greater good any more than a sanitation engineer? (Certainly does more than a pro football quarterback in my book.)

"Stable living wage."

That's another argument I have. Just what, exactly, constitutes a 'stable living wage?' Being able to make your rent and bills every month, and have a little left over to go out once a week? Or to make enough to afford rent, bills, that late-model car, cell phone, credit card bills, nightly partying, etc . . . .

I was a CID officer. I didn't give a rat's ass about my pay, because I believed that what I was doing was important. I helped people. I saved them from rapists, opportunists, and even a couple times, slavers. I did good, and I know it. There are nurses, teachers, police officers, and social workers (owing to Fool) around the world who have felt the same way. Too bad I -- and they -- didn't and don't always feel that way.

It seems we're getting off the subject, though. Still, a good point.

 

[sr71plt]

"Stable living wage."

That's another argument I have. Just what, exactly, constitutes a 'stable living wage?' Being able to make your rent and bills every month, and have a little left over to go out once a week? Or to make enough to afford rent, bills, that late-model car, cell phone, credit card bills, nightly partying, etc . . . .

I was a CID officer. I didn't give a rat's ass about my pay, because I believed that what I was doing was important. I helped people. I saved them from rapists, opportunists, and even a couple times, slavers. I did good, and I know it. There are nurses, teachers, police officers, and social workers (owing to Fool) around the world who have felt the same way. Too bad I -- and they -- didn't and don't always feel that way.

It seems we're getting off the subject, though. Still, a good point.

I searched for some phrase that meant providing a somewhat more comfortable life than what is now being referred to as "living wage," because I think everyone deserves more than that out of life and their work. Couldn't think of a good term, though. Somewhere between the two places you identify, I think.

 

[SimpleGifts]

All I am saying is that there seems to be an automatic bias -- STILL -- toward what constitutes a female-dominated field. I'm not attacking anyone's ideas or beliefs, nor the politics. I just want to know. Are there really fields in which women automatically dominate? Are there those in which men have all the choice stations?

I believe that something like 99 percent of dental hygienists in the United States are female. Just as a data point.

In contrast, corporate directors are predominantly male, although obviously not exclusively, and there are many prominent female directors (in the US use of the term, not the UK usage).

SG

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SLICK

Youre right. Mercenaries are generally much better warriors than a mob.

I think most professions are now unions, and professionals wear white overalls. It's all about protecting the turf. Maybe mafia is a better analogy.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SIMPLEGIFTS

I have a theory about female executives. Let my first say I KNOW SOME TOP-NOTCH, FIRST-SHELF WOMEN EXECS WHO ARE THE BEST!

But what I notice about most female executives is, they try and run a business like they manage their homes. They sweat the small shit and fret about pennies while they bankrupt themselves with credit-cards.

Where I work the ladies obsess about copy paper and pencils and sticky-notes. I cant get WORD or EXCEL thats required for my notes and billing. Yet, if some rube walks in the door with a computer service contract for a million dollars a month, they grab it.

 

[wordofvirtue]

Cat is right about male nurses -- you just don't see the numbers of them that you might think. In 20 years I've worked with no more than 6. And they generally aren't welcome by the patients, other nurses, or physicians. They face even more stereotypes than the rest of us. Poor Greg Fokker's plight (Meet The Parents) is funny because it's largely true. The guy I work with takes a tremendous amount of abuse -- it's ridiculous. I don't know why he comes back. As for me, I am out of the hospital and I simply cannot go back. I'm physically not able to handle the work load. And where I'm at is not a whole lot better. There is no way I could work day shift consistently; just too much to do and the expectation is perfection. Evenings are more mellow. Even so, I'm one person directly caring for 150+ inmates. Yep. You read that right. 1:150. People simply have no idea the amount of education and knowledge we have to have to be able to do our jobs which often involves overseeing physicians who make more mistakes than the public will ever be allowed to know.

 

[staciliv]

Generalizations.

IT professional is another one.

Oh, I don't know - I do ok!