Pride, Patriotism, and Racism

[*Eve*]

Ok, this topic has been on my mind for a couple days and it's pretty disturbing that in the year 2000, people still feel this way.
A couple days ago, me and a friend were in a restaurant, and we were sitting in a booth, in the booth behind us, we could hear the conversation of two women. They were caucausion(it is relevent to the story), Normally I try not be nosiy and listen to anyone's conversation but the two ladies were speaking in voices that were hard to ignore. The subject of the Olympics came up (yes, I know that most of you are getting tired of hearing about it). Well, one of the ladies asked the other what she thought of the upcoming games, and the other one said, something to the effect of "I'm not interested in the Olympics like I use to be. It's nothing but black people. You can't tell the difference between Africa and the US to look at sports on television." The other lady paused in response and said something about showing her patriotism, and rooting for the US regardless. The other lady said, "What's to be proud of, it's what they excell at."
My first instinct was to go over to her table and punch her lights out, but then that would probably be giving into her narrow minded views of african americans. My friend was equally steamed, although she too was caucasion she said she felt so ashamed at that point. Of course it ruined my appetite, so we just got the check, as we were walking out and walked past the two, they had the grace to look a bit embarrassed because they realized that we had been sitting there the whole time.
I pondered what she said, about not being proud of your country simply because of the color of the people representing you. I was very proud when Tiger Woods won the British Open, and when Venus Williams won Wimbeldon, and I am proud of the many African Americans who bring gold back to this country in the Olympics. Is is just because they're black? No, although I do feel a certain pride when a see a minority accomplish something in a sport that wasn't open to them because of their skin color. There are still country clubs that would not welcome minorities in this country and to see Tiger Woods break every record does feel me with pride. It's understandable why people like Jackie Robinson, Joe Louise, Jesse Owens, and Arthur Ash were hero in the black community and to this country because of the adversity they had to overcome in order to acheive greatness, and that is not just black pride, that is what make up America. I am proud of the sacrifices that they have made in order for there to be so many sucessful african american athletes in this country. That's something that everyone should be proud of. We are lucky to live in a country that we get to interact with people of all cultures and races.
Will I watch the Olympics? Hell yea, and I will be rooting for the americans, period, because they are representing my country and I am proud of every single one of them
This was not a rant about blacks in sports, or the Olympics really but a message to say that whatever the race or sex, religion, creed, or sexuality, be proud of those who are willing to stand up and represent this country.

Comments are welcome from people from any country.



Damn, I think this is the longest thing that I have ever written on this board.

 

[Budokan]

This kind of intolerant and narrow-minded viewpoint doesn't surprise me one bit. What does surprise me is when people think that that sort of thing is going by the wayside in this "enlightened" day and age. Sadly, nothing could be further from the truth. I will say this, however. I believe that because of the rather free and open nature of erotica as a genre, most people who read/write the stuff are a little more open-minded than the general public.

 

[Kiss-met]

Tiger Woods isn't black, he has some flowing through his veins..but he is not black. Not even close..Tiger is over 70% asian, and he himslef even disputes it when people label him as black (post Masters commentary, and the Oprah Winfrey show etc..)...he prefers to be called Cablanasian, a reference to his caucasion,black, and asian roots...however, because of media manipulation and the tendencies of asians to be reserved, he is often mistakenly referred to as black. Examples of this are prevalent everywhere..its not a knock on blacks..it just happens..like Derek Jeter, the all-star short stop of the New York Yankees..he is labeled black,and never Irish..yet, hes 50% irish, or Naomi Campbell who is half English..theres way to many examples to cite, but you get the idea. Anyone else wonder why this happens? How if Europeans and Asians have a child, he or she is called Eurasian..or if an American and someone Asian has one, he or she is called Amerasian..so why the separation when someone black and someone white has a child, or black and asian?? The children are almost automatically labeled black...especially if they are successful i.e the Tiger Woods phenomenon.

 

[Roland Gilliad]

Damn straight Eve! I think that black and other ethnic athelites have made our sports better and more Competitive!
i think that People that think Black people dont belong in sports should sit down and rotate! i will watch our olympics and the next time i hear some one say somthing like blacks dont belong. Im going to pester that person with a LONG discussion about how some of our greatest athelites are
black people!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

 

[Slut_boy]

Eve, I loved your post. You may not know its relevance to African states - which relevance is multi-dimensional. First, the obvious: how previously disadvantaged groups of people manage to overcome the odds, so that when they rise to the top, they really do rise above everybody else. That gives African people hope - in Africa, the hope is especially needed. I never really can understand 'white' Africans who dispute the necessity of reddressing imbalance in society. Sport is often an equalizer, and therein lies its value in social reform. And then the second point is the paradox: that is the constitutional logic to reverse discrimination, and how sometimes people confuse their values. That it happens in the States gives hope to Africans that it isn't a uniquely 'African' problem.

In Africa, sport has done wonders to unite a previously disintergrated society. Where 'white' people previously despised and oppressed black people - now those same disenfranchised people have risen above it all and elevated themselves to the status of national heros, who now have the respect of the very people who until recently denied them their existence.

I think the women into who's conversation you stumbled, are in the minority. There will always be minorities that just don't understand the bigger picture - either because they are too dim, too politically blinkered, or else too apathetic to engage the issue. The fact that it concerns you, Eve, already places you in a position far above them. I am sometimes so proud to be an African, and yet sometimes so ashamed to be a 'white' African. Your post meant a lot to me - thank you.



[Edited by Slut_boy on 07-25-2000 at 02:10 AM]

 

[Endlessly]

Eve, I'm having trouble trying to figure out how to word my response because, when it comes to issues of race, I'm in a very odd spot. I'm white-- 100% Irish, actually-- but I have been raised by the small but loving, supportive black community that my town has. (Montana isn't known for it's ethnic diversity, eh.) I'm REALLY involved in civil rights and african-american awareness; it SICKENS me to be one of the only two states in the union to not have the Dr. King holiday as a state holiday.

This doesn't cause the 'white' culture to look at me funny-- but I always wonder if those people who have raised me with these values do. If any of them think it's not my place to be involved so heavily with african american issues.

An example. My senior year of high school: my best friend (who was black) and I petitioned the school board to recognize february as african-american history month, and got them to require all social studies classes to profile the life of Dr. King on Martin Luther King, jr. day each January. I was captain of the winning african-american knowledge bowl team for two years in a row, and my church is about 95% black. The following is what pisses me off about Montana:

Because of the above, the majority of people I ran into-- that I still run into when I come home-- constantly either assume or ask me if I am black. I don't think things should be based on skin color.. But assuming that I am black when I am this goddamned pale and my parents are so white they're blue.. It's ridiculous.

I think my point is this, Eve. People are dumb. It is a concept that transcends race, gender, religion or creed.

 

[CreamyLady]

Eve, I absolutely am in awe of your restraint. I'd have had to empty my iced tea on that arrogant, ignorant head.

Someone once gave me a code to live by. A person is a person, until he or she proves to be an asshole. I'm sorry you had to have a meal near two of them.

 

[*Eve*]

Well......

Thank you Slut boy, for understanding one of the points of this thread.
Kiss-met, I don't want to get into a political debate on who's black and who's not, but as much as you may not want to admit it, Tiger Woods will always be seen as black in this country. Dating back to the days before the Reconsturction period if you were to have even a tenth of black blood flowing through your veins you were considered black no matter how white your skin was, unfortunately people don't look at him and just see a man of 70% asian decent, they see him as a black man. I'm not saying that that is what I think he is. He can call himself whatever he wants but I garauntee you that if he weren't famous, he wouldn't be allowed to play at some country clubs in this country, because of his black appearance. When he was a kid, he was tied to a tree while a bunch of little white kids threw things at him and called him a n****r. They did not see him as 70% asian. You are right in that it is an unfortunate phenomenon in this country because I don't think it's right that bi-racial or multiracial children
have to identify one race or be ostracized. No matter what he considers himself, he is a hero to many african americans and minorities especially children who was unaware of the game before he made it very popular. Personally I see him as a super athlete and yes it did make me happy when he won the Masters, shattering sterotypes of the old boys school.
I wish that this was a perfect world and we won't be seen for our skin color instead of what's in our hearts but this isn't a perfect world and that's the way things are unfortunately.
Kiss-met, believe me, I am in no way hostile to your views, I really a appreciate it, healthy debate is good for this board.
I thank you to the rest of you who have responded. More comments are welcome of course.

 

[gypsyprince]

The race issue

I too, am sorry for what you endured, Eve.

Being from the Dominican Republic has always made my cultural identity in America somewhat of a mystery. A large percentage of people who live in that country are of African descent way back from slave trade days, and in America they would be "African-American" if it weren't for on tiny little problem: the language and culture of D.R. is Spanish.

So then that makes me Hispanic. This was never an issue in my neighborhood in NYC because everybody was Hispanic there. But when I moved to Florida 6 years ago and started the high school social warfare, I was unarmed.

Although skin color never meant anything to me, because Hispanics look like anything you can imagine, it did to my fellow students. "White" kids thought I was "black". "Black" kids thought I was "black". But I didn't "talk black". They figured I was an "oreo". No one was even aware of the culture that borders Haiti. Yet other Carribeans have the luxury of being considered "Black" because they speak English.

And to top it off, I couldn't hang with Hispanic kids because, unfortunately, I was in the gifted program, which had many cultures in it, but mostly whites. So I was a bit of an outcast. I "talked white" because of my proper grammar. I was a "sell out" because I dated more than just African Americans or Hispanics. This saddened and angered me, and made me feel like being what I was was somehow wrong. I have since worked very hard to rebuild my destroyed self-esteem, without harboring resentment towards anyone because of it.

Today, the only race I claim is the human race. If not I am a gypsy. (The original biracial kids!) Although, some of the issues still linger, particularly when I am attracted to someone who does not look like me. But I am coping.

It should not matter what anyone's color is. Everybody is made unique and beautiful.

Now as far as Tiger: Yes, he is "Asian", just as I am "Hispanic". But you have to understand how important it is when minorities see anyone that even comes close to what they look like on TV. Whether they felt "oppressed" or not, the sight makes them happy, because now they see that they can play golf, too, or be doctors, or actors, or anything. Not just sports. I am happy that rappers like Eminem, and the Beastie Boys exist. Or R&B stars like 98 Degrees or Pink. Rock stars like Lenny Kravitz and Corey Glover. Movie stars like Denzel Washington, Jeffrey Wright, and John Leguizamo. Singers Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, Macey Gray, Lauryn Hill. Jazz star Diane Kroll. And of course, props to Sammy Sosa, for putting Dominicans on the map! These people are all breaking stereotypes, attracting many different kinds of fans. At the end of the day, that is the point. That there are no formulas or molds. Just people, capable anything they wish and more.

Another great saddening irony is that even Dominicans as dark as Taye Diggs will use the word n****r in the negative way when referring to Blacks. I personally feel the word should be abolished, among all cultures. It is ugly and very hurtful, and although hip-hop culture has embraced and inverted its meaning, it still sprouted from hatred, and for Blacks and Hispanics to continue using it only hurts us.

And finally, yes, I am a patriot, willing to die for the ideals of this great nation, however far we may seem to stray from them at times. The Constitution, The United Nations, these are foundations for our future as a planet.

"Godspeed, this bright millenium..."
- All-4-One, "Someday",
from Disney's The Hunchback of Notre Dame


[Edited by gypsyprince on 08-18-2000 at 02:39 AM]

 

[Dudley]

Their Loss...

You know, Eve, the irony that should confront idiots like that is that not only do attitudes like theirs promote racism, but they create a barrier around themselves that leaves their own lives far poorer. Whether such knuckleheads care to admit it or not, we are becoming a multi-cultural society and the contributions of people unlike ourselves are ignored at our own peril.

I am the whitest white guy on earth, of Anglo-European heritage, raised in the suburbs, a product of corporate America. Yet I cannot imagine my life without the music of James Brown or Carlos Santana or George Clinton or any of the countless musicians from Africa, Latin America, Harlem or Compton who put the beat in my feet. I wouldn't be the person I am without having experienced Michael Jordan, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Lao-Tzu, Ruben Blades, Spike Lee, Gandhi, and the list goes on and on...

Next time you run into those two, or their moral equivalent, get angry but remember whose existence is that much less beautiful because they ignore people who don't look like them.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Racism just plain stinks even worse than my StudMuffin's feet. My family is rather racist all over. It's pretty much a sad hypocritical state of affairs considering I'm a heinz 57 mutt. One of my whole bunch of greats great grandaddies was a grand wizard or somesuch critter in the KKK back in Georgia. He married a totally gorgeous woman had a few children. He and his wife, whom he adored, were hung in their front yard later in life. It turns out she was an octaroon (stupid word if I've ever heard one). His only redeeming action was choosing her over his KKK buddies.

What makes me cry is that my teenaged nieces claim they are not the least bit racist, yet the only words they can use to refer to people outside their own race is beaner, nigger, slope, raghead and the like. They don't care in the least that it might hurt the people to be referred to that way. I pretty much qualify as all them.

I just never understood the appellation of "black" to some people. They aren't black at all, they're brown. Just like me and everyone else. It's not skin color that sets people apart, it's culture. That's what makes us all different.

I don't like some cultures, I just can't find a way to be comfortable with them. I'm pretty sure the people in those cultures are just as uncomfortable with mine. That doesn't make them less than me, just different. Even thought I may not care for the culture, there is always some things in it that are fascinating, intriguing, and interesting. Too much stuff to learn in this world to stunt it by hating what we don't understand simply because it's not like us.

 

[Morgoth]

A lot of people hate my disguise because it's Russian, for example. And It hink that black people really help sports. For example, basketball, because white men can't jump!(Actually we sure as hell can!)

 

[Unclebill]

Don't you just have to admire somone with the courage to display their ignorance so

blatantly and publicly!

Hi, Eve.

Your response was probably the most effective action you could have taken, merely to ignore and embarrass the jerk. I understand the desire to punch her out but that would have only confirmed (in her tiny mind) the stereotype. Your action proved that you're the civilized intellect, not she.

As to racism in America, most of it is politically motivated, it seems. Listen to the political rhetoric and you hear a lot of references to black, hispanic, jew, and various other minorities. From which major political party do you hear this with utmost consistency?

Why do they want to segregate people into well defined clusters by skin color or ethnic origin? Because they are masters of the power game and by Balkanizing America and pitting one small group against another, they foster divisiveness and thus gain and sustain power over people's lives and property.

They don't care about any one person or any group for that matter beyond getting their votes to remain in power. Slick Willie is a master of the divide and conquer mentality. Tell one group they are victims and that another group is the reason and then tell each group that you'll defend them against the other. That it's all lies is not relevant.

And the majority of the media shows its true colors by practicing the same sort of tactics. In certain cases, the item of major importance concerning someone in the news is their race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or some such other irrelevant fact.

When some thug commits a robbery or murder, who cares what his race or . . .? The only thing of importance is guilt or innocence and the appropriate treatment thereafter.

By the same token, when someone behaves in a heroic and exemplary manner, what relevance does skin color have? But the press often acts as though it were incredulous that a black or (insert selected criterion here) could have behaved in such a courageous (or kind, or benevolent, or moral) manner.

For a specific, I am elated by Tiger Woods success. Not because he's black or Asian or whatever. I am elated because he's skilled at what he does. Because he's disciplined and focused on his chosen pursuit, he has achieved some marvelous success for someone so young. The fact that he's American does give my a bit greater twinge of pride, however.

I remember seeing some footage of him on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson (yeah, years ago) and as a kid (under 10, I think) he was good with a golf club then. Bob Hope was on the same show and he was impressed with the skills demonstrated by this kid. I'm happy to have seen this kid grow into a successful young man.

While I didn't see the Oprah incident, having seen several brief interviews on sports news here and there, I am impressed with his articulate and civil demeanor. I can't help wondering if his reference to Cablanasian was a very sophisticated and polite "up your nose" response to the racist attempt to classify him by skin color or some other irrelevant trait. He impresses me as smart enough to have engineered something like that which is a strong rebuke while being very subtle, a combination born of keen intellect which I admire, appreciate and respect.

And, BTW, when do we see your next story? I'm looking forward to reading another of your stories. You have an admirable skill as a writer, my dear.

 

[Cheyenne]

...It turns out she was an octaroon (stupid word if I've ever heard one). His only redeeming action was choosing her over his KKK buddies....

...What makes me cry is that my teenaged nieces claim they are not the least bit racist, yet the only words they can use to refer to people outside their own race is beaner, nigger, slope, raghead and the like...

I've never even heard of the terms octaroon, slope, beaner, or raghead. (I have heard nigger, obviously.) My point isn't to let you know how stupid I am, but to show that some white people just don't think in such terms. Don't understand them, don't want to know what they mean, glad to have never heard them before, and hope to never hear them in RL since I assume all are bad.

Another thought- maybe one of the greatest things that will come from the Internet is a change in attitude towards race as being a defining factor of who you are. Meaning that online, you can't see what the other people look like, and you finally realize that everyone is the same on the inside even if they look different on the outside.

 

[teresafannin]

Living in Texas, I see racism every day. People like those women are a total waste of skin. I look past skin color to see the person inside. All politicians use the divide & conquer system. George, Jr talks a good game, but he is as white as they come & nothing has really changed here in Texas under his governorship. I truly think that the way to make America strong is to all be Americans. My family is Dutch/German with a little bit of French, but I am an American, nothing hyphenated for me.

 

[Bliss]

I went away and came back and I still want to help pour tea on their heads.

Where do I start? One of my great-great grandmothers was a 'full blooded' Cherokee. My maternal grandmothers' family is red haired, green eyed Irish. Through in some German, English and whatever else and you have me, genetic stew. My little brothers are "1/2" Korean, so I've been asked stupid questions for twenty+ years, like "How come your not Chinese?" and "Hey, you look more white than him".

Well, fuck me running, ya genius! It's sad but true, stupidity, intolerance and ignorance come in every color.

Although it's true that in this country Tiger is seen as "black only", I can understand his point of begging to differ. Saying that totally diregards his mothers island heritage, and that's not right either.

 

[Dreamer1]

I think my point is this, Eve. People are dumb. It is a concept that transcends race, gender, religion or creed.

Endlessly, that is so sad but so true.

Eve, I think your response shows how much more class you have than those women. Getting angry will never make the stupid people smart.

BTW Payne my great-grandmother was full-blooded
Cherokee also! The rest of my mix is similar too-French, German and English.