Present Tense and story ratings

[TheRedLantern]

While I doubt this was your intention, I can't help but read this as a strong argument against holding official contests in general.

I didn't read it that way. I read it as "the way to win a contest is to write a great story and do it in a way that causes the minimal amount of friction with readers." In this case, I think the evidence is pretty strong that present tense can cause some small amount of friction. It's up to each of us to decide what to do with that information.

If what they really do is encourage more of the same, unoriginal, formulaic tripe that is already flooding the site on a daily basis, then I don't see much value in them beyond the monetary one — which is only cashed in by the three people on top. They are great opportunities for more exposure, especially if you're an up-and-coming author, but it's hard to disagree they don't read allow for putting your best, original foot forward as you're trying to attract new readers.

In my opinion, contests don't encourage more of anything. It's a competition, so some of us are going to enter with the intent of winning by writing the story that most makes people want to give it a 5-star vote. First Person Present is my default writing style, and I think it might cost me a hundredth of a point here or there, and that's all that this is about.

I think most people enter with the intent of reaching a bigger audience, I know I did until I had a story get competitive and I saw how much fun it was.

 

[TheRedLantern]

I understand this impulse, but I can't help but think that way madness lies. There are so many things that can bolster or shave your score down by those margins.

Yes, absolutely, and I assure you I'm not going mad over this. My theory is that I can consistently write good stories that can keep me competitive (we'll see if that's true) in that top pack of each contest. Assuming that my theory is correct, I'm just looking at the things that can cost me enough to go from 1st to 4th in a really crowded field like the Holiday contest.

None of that matters if the story isn't the best one I can tell. I agree 100%. This is "on the margins" stuff.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I only enter one contest here most years. I prefer the challenges.

 

[Bazzle]

If I could stay in one tense it would be a bonus

 

[iwatchus]

I only enter one contest here most years. I prefer the challenges.

For whatever reason, I do well in contests and terribly in challenges. I got a prize in one of the two contests and wrote my second highest rated standard lone story for the other.

My three challenge entries are also the only three non-H stories I have.

That said, I plan on doing more challenges in 2026 than contests. My current WIP is for Pink Orchid. In draft form, I think it's the best thing I've ever written. See what I feel about when it;s done. See how any readers feel about it -- no one else has seen any part of it yet.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Halloween is my go-to, which I didn't go to this year or last. I've had a dry spell on them here by entering another site that requires it to be a new story, nowhere else. I've never gotten in the top three here on any contest, but I think I've been in the top six score-wise on one of the ones I entered.

For whatever reason, I do well in contests and terribly in challenges. I got a prize in one of the two contests and wrote my second highest rated standard lone story for the other.

My three challenge entries are also the only three non-H stories I have.

That said, I plan on doing more challenges in 2026 than contests. My current WIP is for Pink Orchid. In draft form, I think it's the best thing I've ever written. See what I feel about when it;s done. See how any readers feel about it -- no one else has seen any part of it yet.

 

[Actingup]

Yes, absolutely, and I assure you I'm not going mad over this. My theory is that I can consistently write good stories that can keep me competitive (we'll see if that's true) in that top pack of each contest. Assuming that my theory is correct, I'm just looking at the things that can cost me enough to go from 1st to 4th in a really crowded field like the Holiday contest.

None of that matters if the story isn't the best one I can tell. I agree 100%. This is "on the margins" stuff.

I think that it’s perfectly valid to be thinking like this. It’s not really about the glories of getting a blue W, but about how best to engage the reader in the category, contest or not, and doing your utmost.

Personally, I don’t really enjoy reading present tense, and will only persist if the story is good enough. I tend to write in past tense, either 1st or 3rd person, because it works.

Another point is to avoid trickery. I belong to a book group where we recently read a novel written in 1st person past tense, and in the last chapter the perspective abruptly shifted to other narrators because the author had killed off his MC. That’s an absolute dick move and annoyed all of us, because if you’re reading something in 1st person, you assume that the MC lived to tell the tale (unless in a diary).

 

[iwatchus]

My WIP novel is first person present. The discussion here has me wondering if I should shift it to past tense in the revision phase next month.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Assuming that my theory is correct, I'm just looking at the things that can cost me enough to go from 1st to 4th in a really crowded field like the Holiday contest.

Personally, I don't think its worth looking at things that can cost you from going from 1st to 4th place or vice versa. That sounds to me like a recipe for losing your mind, or at the very least turning you off from writing when the final tally comes in and that story you put your heart and soul and you were sure was a shoe-in didn't come in the top three.

Will writing in 1P present lose you a few votes? Possibly. Likely, in fact. But have you considered what you might lose by deciding to go against whatever gut instinct told you to write a story a certain way?

Not saying it isn't nice to win a contest, but I suspect min-maxing a story isn't the way to do it...

 

[Britva415]

For an example of a relatively popular book using first person, present tense:

The Hunger Games.

I haven't read that, but another example of relatively popular commercial novels which use 1p present: The Red Rising series (Pierce Scott)

Someone said above, 1pP should be justified. What I feel was left out of that statement was that it should be justified in-universe. "Creating immediacy" isn't a narrative justification for 1pP, it's a description of the author's motivation.

Red Rising was good enough that I have read three books and will probably read more. But it isn't good enough that I don't continually wince at the 1pP voice and tense.

I look at it this way: Without a narrative justification, a "frame" as I have called it in other places, 1p voice is breaking the fourth wall, and 1p in present tense just magnifies that. Exponentially.

 

[TheRedLantern]

But have you considered what you might lose by deciding to go against whatever gut instinct told you to write a story a certain way?

Yes, absolutely! I completely view this is a trade off. What I've noticed is that first person present is my default, so sometimes I don't have a good case to be made for that decision and I'm open to changing it in those cases to at least first person past.

Not saying it isn't nice to win a contest, but I suspect min-maxing a story isn't the way to do it...

Now I think you're just trying to psyche me out while you min-max your own competing story

 

[Britva415]

@TheRedLantern I didn't see any statement about why you chose 1pP ("first-person, present tense").

This tells me that the story really didn't need it, not even a little.

What would you say if I asked you what the in-universe reasons were for 1p voice and present tense narration?

 

[MillieDynamite]

Because I write that way well.

@TheRedLantern I didn't see any statement about why you chose 1pP ("first-person, present tense").

This tells me that the story really didn't need it, not even a little.

What would you say if I asked you what the in-universe reasons were for 1p voice and present tense narration?

 

[crookedletter]

My WIP novel is first person present. The discussion here has me wondering if I should shift it to past tense in the revision phase next month.

Certainly a question to ask yourself as you read through your draft, among other stylistic and plot concerns. But for what it's worth I would urge you to change it only if you feel it doesn't fit with the novel you want to write; not because some people say it might not be the novel they want to read.

 

[TheLobster]

I didn't read it that way.

To be clear, I wasn't insinuating that @MelissaBaby had implied anything close to what I wrote. It was just a realization that struck me then, and I wouldn't be surprised if she disagreed. So, this is squarely on me

I think most people enter with the intent of reaching a bigger audience,

That's how I treat them as well, though I suppose I'm reaching diminishing returns on how much more exposure contests can give me. There was one which I think I could've placed in, but made the "mistake" of posting my story in the first batch rather than at the very end.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Now I think you're just trying to psyche me out while you min-max your own competing story

i haven't entered a contest in a while, and don't plan to anytime soon.. So... don't worry

 

[iwatchus]

Certainly a question to ask yourself as you read through your draft, among other stylistic and plot concerns. But for what it's worth I would urge you to change it only if you feel it doesn't fit with the novel you want to write; not because some people say it might not be the novel they want to read.

To be honest, I have little idea why people care present versus past. I don't even notice when Im reading which it's in. I have to go back and look to be able to state which it is. People here, who I respect and are much better writers than I am, feel strongly about it. I think I just don't understand the issue. (Part of why I'm not as good of a writer, I suspect.)

I write in 1P present because that is what felt right in my first story, when I knew nothing about what I was doing. My other WIP novel is written in third person past. It's a sci-fi novel and that's what SF&F is almost always written in, so I was trying to write to readers' expectations.

I think I mostly get 1P vs 3P (although 2P is still mysterious to me). I really don't understand the difference in feel between past and present. (I do understand the actual tenses and how to write in them.) As I said, I think I completely ignore them as a reader (unless the author screws up and can't be consistent).

 

[Britva415]

Because I write that way well.

Super confusing! Are you in @TheRedLantern 's story universe or are they in yours?

I swear they said in Inception "nobody has ever gone this deep" but now I can't find it as an attributable quote. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna re-watch it

 

[hugh_jarce69]

It’s all about opinions. I’ve just written a couple in first person/present tense and I find it the most erotic way to write.
Doesn’t need to be for every story but personally I disagree with anyone who says it doesn’t work.

Doesn’t make me right & them wrong. We’re just different.

My own view is if someone is going to go all the way through your story & tell you how you should’ve written it, I’d want to see some examples of their writing. If they don’t write then they can piss off. Just my opinion

 

[crookedletter]

To be honest, I have little idea why people care present versus past. I don't even notice when Im reading which it's in. I have to go back and look to be able to state which it is. People here, who I respect and are much better writers than I am, feel strongly about it. I think I just don't understand the issue. (Part of why I'm not as good of a writer, I suspect.)

I write in 1P present because that is what felt right in my first story, when I knew nothing about what I was doing. My other WIP novel is written in third person past. It's a sci-fi novel and that's what SF&F is almost always written in, so I was trying to write to readers' expectations.

I think I mostly get 1P vs 3P (although 2P is still mysterious to me). I really don't understand the difference in feel between past and present. (I do understand the actual tenses and how to write in them.) As I said, I think I completely ignore them as a reader (unless the author screws up and can't be consistent).

I don't understand why it bothers people. It's like any other stylistic choice: if you do it, do it well, and if you do it well it will work. I would rather read well-written first person present tense than poorly written third person past tense, and vice versa. I've bailed on both, but not because of some knee-jerk reaction to the choice; I've bailed because they're not well done. And likewise I've read things that do both beautifully.

There's no right or wrong choice. There are differences, differences in scope, differences in immediacy and how easy or challenging it is to provide backstory, flashbacks, etc. It just comes down to what fits with the story you're trying to tell, and how you'd like to tell it.

I would say if you're unsure which to use, stick with your gut, and then read it and see if you feel it's working.

 

[dirk2024]

My WIP novel is first person present. The discussion here has me wondering if I should shift it to past tense in the revision phase next month.

As someone who has revised the tense of a story, midway through writing it, why wait? Won't that just give you more words to revise and more possibilities to miss something?

 

[Britva415]

I think I completely ignore them as a reader

I can't. 1p present really makes me ask, who am I to this character (the one who's narrating), how am I here while this stuff is happening, if I am not there then how is this being recorded/transcribed in realtime. The only way to mitigate the disbelief and help me suspend it is if there's an in-universe answer to those questions and it's conveyed in the story somehow.

It doesn't have to be a ham-fistedly blunt, direct "I'll bet you're wondering..." answer, but if there's not even any whiff of authorial cognizance or effort along these lines, then I consider it a fourth-wall break.

Which... sure, some people ignore those too, I suppose. But for the whole entire story long!? Anyway, not me. I presume that a fourth-wall break happened for a reason. And when that reason turns out to be completely absent altogether, or complete bullshit, I cringe.

 

[iwatchus]

I guess my question is why does one fit a story better than another?

I understand that 1P is more intimate than 3P. What does present change versus past?

 

[Britva415]

I don't understand why it bothers people. It's like any other stylistic choice: if you do it, do it well, and if you do it well it will work.

First of all: Not for everybody.

Second: read what you wrote again about "if you do it well." Not-being-done-well IS the objection.

 

[StillStunned]

Someone said above, 1pP should be justified.

That was me, I think.

What I feel was left out of that statement was that it should be justified in-universe. "Creating immediacy" isn't a narrative justification for 1pP, it's a description of the author's motivation.

I've been seeing you make the argument for "framing" POVs for the past two years, and you're the only person - writer or reader - I know who makes that demand.

I'm saying this not as criticism, because I understand your argument (although I disagree with it). But I recently started pantsing a 1P POV story that's framed as a dramatic monologue (a prisoner telling his story to his confessor), and one of my first thoughts was, "Hey, Britva will finally be pleased!"