Preferred Forms of Punishment

[caspai]

Given the physical and emotional realities, as I understand them that exist with Dream, how is cutting off communication with her ever anything more than harmful? Is it not better at this point, rather than being a dictator and deciding alone that you need time away beter than coming to that decision alone? Would it not be better, at this point, to come to that agreement together, and work toward a stronger person within Dream?

 

[artful]

Cas

First of all, I don't use time outs with my child, I take calming breaths and work things out with her, even if it means we end up yelling. If that happens, I talk to her about it afterwards. She needs to understand, in my opinion, that anger is part of the realities of life. If I am wrong, I admit it to her and take responsibility for it. To not talk at all is to not work anything out.

The point here is that a submissive is NOT a child, so cutting off communication is counter-productive. It is dishonest. It is harmful. ESPECIALLY if a person has anxiety issues or health problems that can be made worse BY STRESS.

So how many hours would you subject yourself in listening to your childs TEMPER tantrum without your child understanding what you are saying to them,... without taking a break?

 

[P. B. Walker]

First of all, I don't use time outs with my child, I take calming breaths and work things out with her, even if it means we end up yelling. If that happens, I talk to her about it afterwards. She needs to understand, in my opinion, that anger is part of the realities of life. If I am wrong, I admit it to her and take responsibility for it. To not talk at all is to not work anything out.

The point here is that a submissive is NOT a child, so cutting off communication is counter-productive. It is dishonest. It is harmful. ESPECIALLY if a person has anxiety issues or health problems that can be made worse BY STRESS.

I understand that you do not use "time-outs" with your child, caspai, and I'm sorry to imply that you did. That was not my intent. I think what I was implying was that "time-out's" are an accepted way to help childern chill-out. I'm sorry you disagree with that. And we are all going to have our different ways to deal with people. That doesn't mean that everything you don't agree with is emotional abuse.

I think the main part of my point was that not everyone thinks rationally or level-headed when anger and what-have-you come into the picture. I think we can all think of an example of this with our fellow adults. So it is applicable to everyone, not just childern.

I can in no way see how temporarily cutting off communcation is dishonest. You've lost me there. To me, dishonesty is lying or withholding the truth. Maybe you can explain how you view this as dishonest.

I happen to view butting heads in the heat of anger as harmful. I think it is much, MUCH healthier to step back, take control of your feelings, and really thinking about what just happened before you go back to discussing it. Like I said... we all have our own way, but just because my way isn't like yours doesn't mean mine is emotional abuse.

PBW

 

[caspai]

That isn't an appropriate analogy, Art. Dream is not your child. I have known my daughter since before she was born, and could see things developing within her leading up to a break before it happened, and more often than not was able to head them off. When I wasn't able to, we would either fight them out, or I would hold her until she calmed down. Then we would TALK. Would I cut communication? Not with my daughter. The only times in my life I have ever cut communication with anyone, it has been forever, a last resort, and those people I never speak to again.

 

[Rubyfruit]

But you agree that, if I did tell her, it wouldn’t be cruel?

Yes, I agree with that statement.

I'm all about being real, open and in the now, no matter what the message is.

 

[artful]

Cas

That isn't an appropriate analogy, Art. Dream is not your child. I have known my daughter since before she was born, and could see things developing within her leading up to a break before it happened, and more often than not was able to head them off. When I wasn't able to, we would either fight them out, or I would hold her until she calmed down. Then we would TALK. Would I cut communication? Not with my daughter. The only times in my life I have ever cut communication with anyone, it has been forever, a last resort, and those people I never speak to again.

With ALL due respect,...you introduced the *child* analogy,...I only continued with it. Also,...you were speaking of a skin-to-skin relationship,...and Dream and I are LDR.

 

[caspai]

What we are dealing with here is a situation where someone is getting frustrated with someone else who is trying to work things out. This person may be talking in circles, and if that is the case, tehn there needs to be an agreement that time needs to be taken by both of them to try to understand what is going on with both of them. If that is what is needed, great. If the person "in control" of the situation just says we aren't going to talk for said amount of time, and then goes away, leaving the other person dangling, and lost, THAT is abusive and manipulative, and counter productive. It ends up making that person feel as if they mean nothing to the other person. That is the reality we are talking about here, Art.

 

[caspai]

I didn't introduce the child analogy, pbwalker did. I was merely responding to it.

 

[artful]

Cas

I didn't introduce the child analogy, pbwalker did. I was merely responding to it.

I apologise,...I was only responding to it also.

 

[P. B. Walker]

What we are dealing with here is a situation where someone is getting frustrated with someone else who is trying to work things out. This person may be talking in circles, and if that is the case, tehn there needs to be an agreement that time needs to be taken by both of them to try to understand what is going on with both of them. If that is what is needed, great. If the person "in control" of the situation just says we aren't going to talk for said amount of time, and then goes away, leaving the other person dangling, and lost, THAT is abusive and manipulative, and counter productive. It ends up making that person feel as if they mean nothing to the other person. That is the reality we are talking about here, Art.

Mmmm... well I am not in a 24/7 TPE relationship, nor I have I ever been in one. But I have to say, I think your reasoning is very "vanilla". What I mean by that is that I think you are assuming both people are equal. In that type of relationship (I figure you are speaking of such since you used person "In control" to describe it) only one person has the power, the other has willing given that control to the other. As such, everything happens when and where and how that person in power says. If they would rather work out the issues later, then that is what the sub/slave will accept. That isn't abusive, that is the Dom/me asserting total control. The submissive lives to please the Dom/me not the other way around.

If however, you are talking about a Top/bottom (i.e., a non-24/7 TPE relationship, where the BDSM is limited to the bedroom) then again, I don't think it is necessarily abusive. In my mind, it will depend on the people involved. I agree that in some situations, with certain types of people, stepping back can lead to hurtful feelings. Hurtful feelings don't necessarily equate to abuse. But I can also think of other situations and types of people were stepping back is the correct solution. But I still cannot call it emotionally abusive. Again, this is just my opinion. Sorry to disagree with you.

PBW

 

[caspai]

Dream is new to bdsm. I have never claimed to understand everything about it, but I recognize it as a journey, not as a destination. She is struggling with many of the things that are necessary to bdsm, and it seems to me it would be most appropriate to take things gradually rather than to just jump in at the deep end all at once and expect that everything is going to be smooth. That isn't realistic. What I suggest is to use compromise as a starting point, not as an ending point, and to slowly work toward a more Dominant position. It is called TRAINING, is it not?

 

[P. B. Walker]

Uhmmm.... ok.

PBW

 

[artful]

Cas

What we are dealing with here is a situation where someone is getting frustrated with someone else who is trying to work things out. This person may be talking in circles, and if that is the case, tehn there needs to be an agreement that time needs to be taken by both of them to try to understand what is going on with both of them. If that is what is needed, great. If the person "in control" of the situation just says we aren't going to talk for said amount of time, and then goes away, leaving the other person dangling, and lost, THAT is abusive and manipulative, and counter productive. It ends up making that person feel as if they mean nothing to the other person. That is the reality we are talking about here, Art.

The reality is that you have sided with Dream due to her having GAINED your sympathy,...in reality,...you are not FALILIAR with both sides,...nor have you taken the time to validate WHAT she has accused me of doing. THAT having been said,...I will not attempt to defend my position any longer,...for to do so,...would mean to bring out the *BIG GUNS*,...and YES,...I have them,...but don't care to use them. I apologise if I have offended you,...I assure you THAT was NOT my intentions,...but ONLY to defend my character. I am NOT an UNCARING selfish, over controlling bastard that has NO feelings for Dreams emotional or physical welfare,...and YES,...I have been offended by statements you have made,...that put me in THAT light.

 

[Ebonyfire]

The point here is that a submissive is NOT a child, so cutting off communication is counter-productive. It is dishonest. It is harmful. ESPECIALLY if a person has anxiety issues or health problems that can be made worse BY STRESS.

I disagree. There are may be times when adults (assuming the submissive is an adult) behaves like a child, and therefore would benefit being timed out. I would offer that if more adults did this there might be less spontaneous physical responses to certain situations.

We all have stress, but it is how we deal with that stress that makes the difference. In my opinion, cutting off communication is justified in many situations. Sometimes you have just got to take care of yourself. I do not believe it is dishonest. What is dishonest is to pretend to communicate.

And stress relief comes from within not without. We as adults have to take responsibility for our own responses to stressful situations. Not lay it at the door of someone else.

edited for grammar.

Ebony <YMMV>

 

[caspai]

Since we don't seem able to communicate, I am cuttingg communications now, Art. Goodbye.

 

[Never]

Rubyfruit:
"Yes, I agree with that statement.

I'm all about being real, open and in the now, no matter what the message is."

I think silence can say much more than words.
No one is advocating simply stopping in mid-sentence and walking out the door. Nor are they suggesting that this should go on for months.

Most of the things that occur with in a BDSM relationship would be abusive if they were done arbitrarily, or regardless of the limits of the other person. That’s why I object to calling this one action abuse.

caspai,
There are problems with your cutting communications.
1. Art has never said or implied in anyway that he would be willing to submit to you.
2. You're cutting communication out of frustration.
3. You're doing this to prove that you're right, you don't really care about Art's feelings or reactions.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Since we don't seem able to communicate, I am cuttingg communications now, Art. Goodbye.

Do you feel emotionally abused now, Art?


PBW

 

[Rubyfruit]

Yes, I agree Nevermydear.

I suppose I was speaking to the end-of-it-all type silence in the big picture.

There is no excuse aside from lack of character for that in my book.

 

[Never]

Ahhh.. enlightenment.
No, I wasn't talking about that at all. This thread was about punishment, why would I punish someone after the relationship was over?

 

[justgem]

.

 

[Never]

Not all subs are created equal.

justgem:
"isnt that what all subs ultimately want? to please their Dom? so why do something that will bring "punishment"?"

That is one type of relationship, however, that isn't the only type of relationship. Some even desire punishment.

 

[iam4Her]

cut off communication .yes !

Really, i have to come in here.

When i started my journey with my Mistress, long time before it became realtime 24/7, when it was a classic online relationship. w/We also had problems to deal with.

Sometimes arguments, sometimes situations where i didnt understand my Mistress, situations where i didnt listen to what She said, situations of just ordinary misinterpretation, many situations where repetetative words came out of me of frustration, and of lacking social experience.

Yes I did have a problem deal with when it comes to the social communication skills. Yes I had much less selfesteem then i have today.

Mistress did shut off communication with me several times, and yes it was completly right to do that.
Yes it is very emotional frustrating to see the one you love go offline, but it really is effecient and constructive. It forced me to to slow down, calm down,rethink the situation , and straighten out my feelings.

Really seen from a Dom/me point of view, in a situation of problem, what can He/She really do infront of a computer ?, there is no eye to eye contact, no skin contact, no way to check the truth in what is said, except turing the computer off for a while.

How could you really believe in the Domination if the sub is controlling the conversation all the time ??

There is absolutly nothing wrong about shutting of communication.
All problems nomatter if they are relation, work, friend or whatever related need their pauses in order to come to the solutions.

Sometimes you actually need the 15-30 minute break because you need to go the bathroom, or the dogs needs to go out.

Sometimes a problem need a days break.


Pauses are neccesary and constructive even if they are forced on you.

And to turn it the oposit way..really there is nothing wrong if the slave would ask, "Master, can we take a couple fo hours of break in this conflict in order for u/Us to think through ?"

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

 

[artful]

Re: cut off communication .yes !

Really, i have to come in here.

When i started my journey with my Mistress, long time before it became realtime 24/7, when it was a classic online relationship. w/We also had problems to deal with.

Sometimes arguments, sometimes situations where i didnt understand my Mistress, situations where i didnt listen to what She said, situations of just ordinary misinterpretation, many situations where repetetative words came out of me of frustration, and of lacking social experience.

Yes I did have a problem deal with when it comes to the social communication skills. Yes I had much less selfesteem then i have today.

Mistress did shut off communication with me several times, and yes it was completly right to do that.
Yes it is very emotional frustrating to see the one you love go offline, but it really is effecient and constructive. It forced me to to slow down, calm down,rethink the situation , and straighten out my feelings.

Really seen from a Dom/me point of view, in a situation of problem, what can He/She really do infront of a computer ?, there is no eye to eye contact, no skin contact, no way to check the truth in what is said, except turing the computer off for a while.

How could you really believe in the Domination if the sub is controlling the conversation all the time ??

There is absolutly nothing wrong about shutting of communication.
All problems nomatter if they are relation, work, friend or whatever related need their pauses in order to come to the solutions.

Sometimes you actually need the 15-30 minute break because you need to go the bathroom, or the dogs needs to go out.

Sometimes a problem need a days break.


Pauses are neccesary and construtive even if they are forced on you.

And to turn it the oposit way..really there is nothing wrong if the slave would ask, "Master, can we take a couple fo hours of break in this conflict in order for u/Us to think through ?"

iam4Her
proud property of
Mistress Marlene

I agree with either side mandating a break, or pause in communication, as relates to LDR'S.

 

[Trainerman]

Justice

Doesn't it all come down to something people would like to see in society at large..actual justice? That is ...that the punishment fits the crime?

In the case of this specific question, then also it has to fit the individuals concerned. For some, therefore silence and communication withdrawel would be a really heavy penalty. Therefore, unless a really bad 'crime' had been committed this is not natural justice. To do something that would emotionally damage does not fit in with the ideals of SSC anyway...therefore we don't do it.

In my case....all I would have to do is withdraw spankings !!

Dave

 

[justgem]

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