Power games... who needs them?

[nice90sguy]

I do! for me they're an essential element of a hot story. Without them, nothing stirs in my loins.

Judging by the number of popular stories here that don't really have any confrontational, element or power dynamics, I guess I must be in a minority here.

 

[Euphony]

Like everything, it's a spectrum.

Some readers prefer quick, all cleared runway b/c they like erotica more like porn videos. Nothing wrong w/that.

Others prefer huge dichotomies that force characters to confront it (incest, May-December, Dom/Sub, etc.) Fine too.

I appreciate the clever who use their author skills to dabble with dynamics and let the characters explore their individual boundaries and deal with the friction that comes from those negotiations.

Hat for every head around here.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Well you're talking about a few different things here:

Power imbalance - one character is in a position of authority over the other or else has the ability to control them

Power abuse - the more powerful character abuses that power for usually sexual benefits.

Power Games - can either just mean the above or else that both participants are playing a game where they agree that one of them is the powerful character.

Confrontation - in this thread, I'm guessing it means the weaker character attempting to break free of the dynamic.

These are tropes for sure and some people enjoy them.

I tend to avoid this sort of thing in my stories, not necessarily consciously, but I think a lot of my stories have a 'tennis match' dynamic, two equal people - he does this, she does this in return, he does that, he does this and suddenly they're at the net together.

The problem with power abuse is that it doesn't make the character seem very nice. And if the characters are playing games that usually means they've established some kind of relationship already and most of my stories are about the start of a relationship.

No saying these are always bad, just that they need care and I've stayed away this far.

 

[nice90sguy]

Confrontation is not a trope, if by that you mean a sort of lazy story device. It's essential to pretty much any story unless you're writing a kind of still-life or a vignette.

By "power games" I guess I do mean confrontation, or more specifically (forgetting group sex for a minute), where one person wants something and the other doesn't, or wants it less, and therefore we might see coercion, persuasion, seduction, manipulation, all the way up to full non-con stuff like rape (which I'd rather not read). Two people can be attracted to each other and jump in the sack, or fall in love, but unless there's a dance between them first, it is, as Euphony said, like a porn video. And porn images/videos are where I go when I want that. It's precisely because this is a written medium that I need more than that here.

 

[SimonDoom]

I would not agree that confrontation is essential to a good erotic story, or that power inequivalence is necessary, either, although they may be an essential part of what YOU find erotic, and that's fine. I'd say that "conflict" in the very broad sense usually is an element of a good story. Conflict can take many forms and doesn't require power imbalance. Both parties can be strong, but perhaps in different ways, and they can equally want each other but have their reasons for resisting. It doesn't have to be "he wants it/she doesn't." It can be "they both want it but each has a reason to resist desire." Many incest stories fit this pattern. Literotica incest stories tend to dodge the power imbalance issue and lean on taboo, rather than power imbalance, to give the story sizzle.

Like you, I enjoy power imbalance/power exchange as an erotic subject, but for many it's uncomfortable and not erotic.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Confrontation is not a trope, if by that you mean a sort of lazy story device. It's essential to pretty much any story unless you're writing a kind of still-life or a vignette.

Tropes aren't necesserily lazy. They're just blocks of a story that tend to get used again and again in different combinations. It's practically impossible to write any kind of story without accidentally or intentionally brushing up against two dozen different tropes. For coercion in a sex story, any number of them begin "A-ha, I have discovered the evidence you murdered you father/the amateur porn video you made with your brother/the megafusion bomb that will destroy your whole planet, now do what I say..." and thats fine.

For confrontation, see Simon's answer above.

By "power games" I guess I do mean confrontation, or more specifically (forgetting group sex for a minute), where one person wants something and the other doesn't, or wants it less, and therefore we might see coercion, persuasion, seduction, manipulation, all the way up to full non-con stuff like rape (which I'd rather not read). Two people can be attracted to each other and jump in the sack, or fall in love, but unless there's a dance between them first, it is, as Euphony said, like a porn video. And porn images/videos are where I go when I want that. It's precisely because this is a written medium that I need more than that here.

Well there are different levels to this. If you have one character coerce or manipulate the other, then it makes it much more difficult for the reader to see them as a nice person and thus as the eventual relationship as a good thing. Even if the coercion is as simple as 'come and have dinner with me and see if we get on (and I won't tell anyone that you...)' it still forms the basis of the relationship. In more ambitious and longer works authors can do this sort of thing to build complex characters and get more ambigious reactions from the reader...it needs care though. Some people aren't even particularly keen on persuasion - they think an initial no should mean no and (mostly) guys should learn to stop pestering (mostly) gals.

Some stories need a dance and some stories don't, but there are many different ways to dance.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Like you, I enjoy power imbalance/power exchange as an erotic subject, but for many it's uncomfortable and not erotic.

Agree your second phrase. I don't think I could write an imbalance story to save myself - my characters are always much more closely aligned in their desires. It's why I don't "get" BDSM: with me it's always lower case letters, more a game than a dynamic, and why I stay right away from non-con, which I do find disturbing, some of the darker fantasies being expressed.

Wait, was that the ice-cream van .

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

One thing that can be done in an erotic story is to make a plot and a character arc from self-discovery. There doesn't have to be a power imbalance conflict (although there can be, especially when the character deals with other people after learning who s/he really is). In the case of someone who is closeted (for whatever reason), there is likely some inner conflict about coming out. I think this can be just as compelling as a situation between a power-have and a power-have-not.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Keep in mind that while conflict can be an integral dynamic within a story, two or more characters can face the same conflict without there needing to be a power difference between them. A couple facing a conflict related to their relationship not being accepted by society is just one example. "Us against the World" is a power dynamic that is used frequently in writing but I don't see it meeting the definition implied by the OP.

 

[XerXesXu]

Keep in mind that while conflict can be an integral dynamic within a story, two or more characters can face the same conflict without there needing to be a power difference between them. A couple facing a conflict related to their relationship not being accepted by society is just one example. "Us against the World" is a power dynamic that is used frequently in writing but I don't see it meeting the definition implied by the OP.

Grammarly's 4th PoV ???

 

[nice90sguy]

"Us against the World" is a power dynamic that is used frequently in writing but I don't see it meeting the definition implied by the OP.

Yes, definitely. A taboo functions that way in a lot of stories I've read here.

Conflict is not quite what I'm referring to. I love cheesy rom-coms. With few exceptions, there's at the very least a "meet-cute" , a friction between the protagonists that is eventually overcome. But none of them are sexy to me, except maybe the 1934 movie "It Happened One Night", precisely because of the strong power play between the protagonists.

And I agree with electricblue about BDSM, which I'm actually quite into, but not the way it's portrayed in a lot of stories here, which is usually more about couples spicing up their sex lives.

The sexiness of the femme fatales in Film Noir, or of an abductor like in the 1965 classic "The Collector", is what I look for in stories here -- and as I've said, I guess I'm in a minority.

 

[XerXesXu]

A timeless classic. I'm surprised you know this one; not many do.

I'll watch it tonight and tell you what I think. It's either rapey or it's not.

 

[nice90sguy]

I'll watch it tonight and tell you what I think. It's either rapey or it's not.

Lol it was post Hayes, so no rape I'm afraid.

 

[XerXesXu]

Lol it was post Hayes, so no rape I'm afraid.

I have no idea who Hayes is, but, even to me, 1934 seems a long time ago. What went before Hayes?

 

[nice90sguy]

I spelled it wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just because there's a power balance doesn't mean it has to be exploited. There's story fodder in two people of different status trying to figure out how they can have a relationship of equals.

 

[XerXesXu]

Just because there's a power balance doesn't mean it has to be exploited. There's story fodder in two people of different status trying to figure out how they can have a relationship of equals.

That's true, but there seems to be an interest in people exploiting persons of unequal power. I'm particularly reminded of a story beginning, " I hate all niggers, but today I was hating one, in particular, Sophie", or words close to that effect. Guess what happens? He keeps his job, she gets his cum trickling down his leg. That's what I call rapey. If a girl (in my case) doesn't want to have sex with you ' Thank you. Goodbye. NEXT.'

 

[Bramblethorn]

That's true, but there seems to be an interest in people exploiting persons of unequal power. I'm particularly reminded of a story beginning, " I hate all niggers, but today I was hating one, in particular, Sophie", or words close to that effect. Guess what happens? He keeps his job, she gets his cum trickling down his leg. That's what I call rapey. If a girl (in my case) doesn't want to have sex with you ' Thank you. Goodbye. NEXT.'

Sure, almost every NC story comes down to "person exploits a power imbalance to hurt somebody else". Just reminding people that there are lots of other, non-rapey ways to use power imbalance in a story.

 

[Alitaptap]

Ah, one of my fave topics, especially when it comes to erotica and gender politics. A quote I particularly love:

“What makes power hold good, what makes it accepted, is simply the fact that it doesn't only weigh on us as a force that says no, but that it traverses and produces things, it induces pleasure, forms knowledge, produces discourse.” Michel Foucault

I agree that power games are not necessarily a bad thing, and can be something that produces pleasure, discourse, evolution, and change. But a clear distinction must be made between that exchange and exploitation/abuse which I am sure everyone here knows.

a lot of my stories have a 'tennis match' dynamic, two equal people - he does this, she does this in return, he does that, he does this and suddenly they're at the net together.

I agree - this kind of dynamic is the most interesting for me as well. It’s organic and unexpected. A lot of newness and play can come from it because there is less rigidity and staunch adherence to commonly held beliefs.

Conflict can take many forms and doesn't require power imbalance. Both parties can be strong, but perhaps in different ways, and they can equally want each other but have their reasons for resisting.

Yes, agree with this too. Conflict forces us to change, to grow - so it’s essential for the transformation of characters and us, as human beings. Probably why stories are so addicting - like windows into other people’s minds and we can safely ask: How do others deal with this? And yes, power exchange is not necessary for conflict, but you must admit, it does add some spice. Haha!

 

[SimonDoom]

Conflict forces us to change, to grow - so it’s essential for the transformation of characters and us, as human beings. Probably why stories are so addicting - like windows into other people’s minds and we can safely ask: How do others deal with this? And yes, power exchange is not necessary for conflict, but you must admit, it does add some spice. Haha!

Some people object to the word "conflict" because they associate it with physical conflict or violence, but in its broad and most helpful form it just means any situation where an obstacle gets in the way of a story character achieving their goal. It's what creates drama and interest in the story, and it can take almost infinite forms.

 

[Voboy]

I love power imbalances. I like the challenge of finding ways to make a more disagreeable character palatable to my readers. I miss the mark sometimes, but that's okay; better to miss the mark than to be unwilling to make the attempt, I reckon.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

All sorts of power differences can be interesting - age, seniority, knowing the local area/business/people vs not, clients vs strippers - as well as physical ones like size and strength, or choosing to give up some power, as in bondage and/or submission.

I think all my stories play with at least some of those ideas - I was going to say most, thinking my most recent doesn't, but apart from one sexual partner not being in a good state after his mother's funeral, half of it is effectively ranting about the Catholic church, so that's a huge power imbalance, Church vs mere sinner...

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I love the power imbalance, but I like when it is done subtly, through seduction. The seduction itself is what makes a story great for me, not the resulting power imbalance and struggle. Also, it doesn't work for me if the person with less power doesn't enjoy his/her position, at least unconsciously. But all of it has to be about subtlety, seduction, and it has to be believable on some level. So it requires a slow build up, nuanced characters and a slow journey towards disbalance.
I truly hate the stories where already in like a third paragraph, somebody relinquishes all power and from that moment on, the story doesn't have anywhere to go, except to show us how it looks when you relinquish all power...

 

[Bramblethorn]

All sorts of power differences can be interesting - age, seniority, knowing the local area/business/people vs not, clients vs strippers - as well as physical ones like size and strength, or choosing to give up some power, as in bondage and/or submission.

I think all my stories play with at least some of those ideas - I was going to say most, thinking my most recent doesn't, but apart from one sexual partner not being in a good state after his mother's funeral, half of it is effectively ranting about the Catholic church, so that's a huge power imbalance, Church vs mere sinner...

Some other things in that story that can also be viewed through a "power imbalance" lens:

Dan vs. Ade's family - an occupying army is a very unsubtle form of power imbalance. With Dan as the lone ex-soldier in the middle of a crowd of Republicans, that balance is reversed, and there's a bit of dancing as they figure out how that's going to go.

The issue of how being in a queer relationship affects Dan and Ade's social status. Dara and Keiran misread the balance of power, thinking that Ade being queer gives them carte blanche to kick him around - both in the assumption that Ade is no physical threat to Dara, and in not realising that the rest of the family aren't going to take their side.

Ade's parents' relationship was very unequal, and that colours how he responds to the events of the story. (Granted, this and the previous one both interact to some degree with the Church/sinner aspect, but they're things that could still have been an issue even without religion in the picture.)

And this: "I'm the only guy in years he's trusted to fuck him." Unpack that line and we're going to find some more power issues.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Some other things in that story that can also be viewed through a "power imbalance" lens:

Dan vs. Ade's family - an occupying army is a very unsubtle form of power imbalance. With Dan as the lone ex-soldier in the middle of a crowd of Republicans, that balance is reversed, and there's a bit of dancing as they figure out how that's going to go.

The issue of how being in a queer relationship affects Dan and Ade's social status. Dara and Keiran misread the balance of power, thinking that Ade being queer gives them carte blanche to kick him around - both in the assumption that Ade is no physical threat to Dara, and in not realising that the rest of the family aren't going to take their side.

Ade's parents' relationship was very unequal, and that colours how he responds to the events of the story. (Granted, this and the previous one both interact to some degree with the Church/sinner aspect, but they're things that could still have been an issue even without religion in the picture.)

Wow, actual literary analysis! Thank you very much.

You're right - though if Adrian hadn't been ushered out of the church hall, several of the rest of the family probably would have joined on his cousin's side (followed by others on Ade's side, simply because of what Dara's mum once said to our Mary, etc etc...)

And this: "I'm the only guy in years he's trusted to fuck him." Unpack that line and we're going to find some more power issues.

Yup - you'd have to read the Smoking Hot series for all the backstory. Though it's summarised in Turkish Delight, something like "some cunts in the Army treated him carelessly, and he's not enjoyed a cock there since. I'm taking baby steps - he loved my finger, when he relaxed enough at Christmas."