Possibly politically incorrect solutions to the western world's problems

[SlickTony]

You can hardly turn on the radio or TV or open a newspaper nowadays without reading about:

1. some social critic rabbiting on about the McDonaldization of the world
2. the obesity epidemic
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   These two phenomena, taken together, suggest a brilliant (IMO) solution to the United States' dependency on oil. There is a lot of discussion about the politics of oil, about global warming, personal transportation vs. public transportation, etc., but the elephant in the room is the fact that it's a non-renewable resource. We're going to run out of it--or we're going to have sucked all the easily accessible oil out of the ground and what there is left will become increasingly more difficult and costly to extract, to the extent that it will become unaffordable.
   
   It's been pretty much established that a large contributor to the so-called obesity epidemic is eating out--far more than our forebears ever did. With all the fast food and slow food restaurants in this country, there just has to be an unending supply of kitchen grease. As soon as possible, all cars should be built to run on biodiesel. This is technically possible and there are vehicles already being manufactured that do this. Conversion kits could be developed for existing cars until attrition accounted for them.
   
   If the greater portion of our cars ran on biodiesel, a renewable source of energy, it could cut America's dependence on fossil fuels by as much as 50%. We could buy what oil we still needed from our friends and tell certain other oil producing countries, whose values are inimical to ours, and who wouldn't mind seeing us die in pain or suffer under sharia law, to go fuck themselves.
   
   This would work in Europe, too. I understand that gas is already more than $2/gallon there, and your buses and trains need fuel too.

 

[shereads]

On behalf of me, amen.

On behalf of Europe and signatories to the Kyoto Agreement, I'd say "Bite my ass, American petroleum pigs! I work in a green building and ride a bicycle to work - with one leg, thanks to the flesh wasting disease that Monsanto accidentally released on my quaint village of half-timbered cottages and self-sustaining vegetable gardens. You Yanks use more fossil fuels, per person, than anybody else on the planet and pay less for it, plus your president is a famous idiot. Alternative fuels, our ass."

But maybe they don't feel that way. Or maybe they do, but they're just jealous that we only got the new Mini Cooper, and they had to work the bugs out.

Your thoughts?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I thought you were going to suggest squeezing the oil out of fat people.

---dr.M.

 

[SlickTony]

Ok, I've lived in America most of my life and I lived in one of the oil producing countries I'd like to have go fuck itself for four years. I said that this solution might be regarded as politically incorrect, i.e., it would piss someone off.

Hey, it might end up being a solution for everybody one day. We will run out of oil. The stuff took millions of years to make and we could run out of it in a few more decades.

Hey, I don't like our dependence on oil any more than anybody else. I think incidents such as Bhopal (which happened in India, not anywhere in Europe) reflect shamefully on my country. Nor do I hold any brief for Monsanto, which went on to do more different kinds of mischief after its initial start in oil. My ancestors were farmers. Farming is probably the second oldest profession, or maybe the third (I think politician came before). It used to be that a farmer saved back a portion of his crops to seed next year's crops. I don't even know if they can do that anymore (my family all moved into town 2 generations back). I think the concept of having to buy one's seed from Monsanto or some place like it each year is kind of apalling and antithetical to the profession.

You Yanks use more fossil fuels, per person, than anybody else on the planet and pay less for it, plus your president is a famous idiot. Alternative fuels, our ass."

I feel guilty about my Nissan getting only 24 mpg on its best day, but the community I live in is set up such that if I rode my bike to work it would take too much out of my day, then there's the thought of laboring up the incline of the Matthews bridge (my city has a river running through it with 7 bridges over it). I think it's kind of nifty the way people walk so much more in European cities--it has the double beneficial result of using less fuel and burning up calories so they can drink wine and eat food with real butter in it with impunity. Southern cities have painted themselves into a deadly trap with their lack of coherent planning and resulting sprawl. As for paying less for gasoline than everybody else, I look for us to catch up to the rest of the world by the end of the year, the way things are going. And I don't like Bush either, and his sidekick Cheney is worse. I plan to vote against both of them in November.

But--! I seem to recall reading somewhere that even Kyoto didn't sign off on Kyoto. And do bear in mind that

1. the earth went through periods of global warming--and cooling--millions of years before mankind existed, let alone evolved far enough to burn fuels to blame global warming on. The last period of serious global cooling resulted in climatic changes that destroyed whole cultures, and everybody was damn glad when the planet warmed back up again. Oh, and don't forget the volcanoes. Sorry, you can't pin Krakatoa on the U.S.
2. Before petroleum came into use, we were burning a lot of wood and coal, which polluted the air far worse than petroleum ever did, even before cleaner cars and refineries were developed, and we got our fuel for lighting by hunting down innocent whales. Petroleum did more to save the whales than Greenpeace.
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   Forgive me for not considering in advance how much of the readership doesn't live where I do. Seriously, Shereads, where do you live, actually? or are you just playing devil's advocate in this thread? Maybe once everybody's finished piling on me and gotten it out of their system, we can have an intelligent discussion about this.

 

[shereads]

Whoa, Slick! My first response, on behalf of me, was "amen."

I'm Joanie-With-You-On-This-One. I'm the devil's advocate, that's what I meant to say. I was just filling in for the Canadians because it's past their bed time.



I agree 119%.

And screw Kyoto if they didn't agree to the Kyoto Accord. Poseurs.

Edited to add:

I live in Florida, home of one-way mass transit.

 

[Madame Manga]

I thought you were going to suggest squeezing the oil out of fat people.

---dr.M.

Swiftly speaking, that's what I'd call a modest proposal.

MM

 

[Weird Harold]

As soon as possible, all cars should be built to run on biodiesel. This is technically possible and there are vehicles already being manufactured that do this. Conversion kits could be developed for existing cars until attrition accounted for them.

Oddly enough, the History Channel had an episode about Gasoline on today. It brought up one point about "biodiesel" and other "renewable fuels" like Ethanol -- there is not enough LAND, let alone Arable Land in the US to provide enough Bio-Fuel to replace our use of Gasoline.

The only alternative fuel that is theoretically availble in the quantity required to completely replace Gasoline/Diesel is Hydrogen -- a much better alternative anyway.

The technology to convert every internal combustion engine to use Hydrogen or Natural Gas (Methane) exists, is NOT all that expensive, and efficient noughto please even the most ardent "muscle car" fan. What doesn't exist is an efficient distribution system.

If we want to be politacllay incorect, let's collect al the Methane those obese people and cows generate and use THAT as our initial alternative fuel while we build the Hydrogen distribution network to do away with pollution completely.

 

[minsue]

I thought you were going to suggest squeezing the oil out of fat people.

---dr.M.

Me, too!! Good to know I'm not the only deranged person running amok on the boards!

 

[Somme]

Me, too!! Good to know I'm not the only deranged person running amok on the boards!

Amen

 

[shereads]

Good to know I'm not the only deranged person running amok on the boards!

You mean the evidence wasn't in until just now?

Good lord, Min, you should have said something! The rest of us would have poked each other's eyes out, pointing at examples of deranged posters, just to set your mind at ease.

 

[minsue]

You mean the evidence wasn't in until just now?

Good lord, Min, you should have said something! The rest of us would have poked each other's eyes out, pointing at examples of deranged posters, just to set your mind at ease.

I knew I'd get a good response, but as usual you went above and beyond the call of duty, Sher. So very happy I wasn't drinking anything when I reached the last sentence!

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

I knew I'd get a good response, but as usual you went above and beyond the call of duty, Sher. So very happy I wasn't drinking anything when I reached the last sentence!

Any room for another deranged poster?

~ R W

 

[minsue]

Never mind!

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

Never mind!

How rude!

harrumph

~ R W

 

[snooper]

... I feel guilty about my Nissan getting only 24 mpg on its best day, ...

So you should, especially as you USites have such short-measure gallons. That means 19mpg using real gallons.

 

[Remec]

I thought you were going to suggest squeezing the oil out of fat people.

---dr.M.

<really loud laugh and goofy grin>
Wonderful! I thought I was a little sick and loopy from lack of sleep when I had the same thought. (I just got in from work a little while ago, luckily today is my night off.)

Actually, I should amend. I thought maybe he was going to advocate hitting up dead bodies...especially ones marked to be cremated. I mean, if they're going to be burned anyways....

 

[snooper]

[B... I thought maybe he was going to advocate hitting up dead bodies...especially ones marked to be cremated. I mean, if they're going to be burned anyways.... [/B]

That has been the basis of so many Sci-Fi stories ...

Also it is (to a small extent) true already. In any incinerator the flue gets coated with deposits and needs to be cleaned out from time to time. Commercial firms do this to all sorts of chimneys, including crematoria, and take the flue residue away. They used to dump it, years ago, because nobody had a use for it, but nowadays flue residues are a significant source of certain elements, primarily germanium.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

To be a bit more serious about this, the US will eventually tank because of high gas prices. Unlike what used to be called the Old World, America is a huge country that came of age in the era of the automobile. Walking or biking to work are simply not options for the great majority of us: the distances are just too far. Nor are our towns set out the way they are in Europe, each market being about a day's walk from one another. Out west you can have a couple hundred miles between cities.

Most of the cities west of the Mississippi are set up on the automobile plan. They grew up around freeways and highways and are simply not equipped to handle pedestrian traffic at all. A lot of them don't even have sidewalks.

Methane is cleaner than gasoline, but it's no more plentiful and since it's a gas, it doesn't have the energy density of a liquid fuel. Hydrogen has to be made by the electrolysis of water, which takes massive amounts of electricity. For every joule of energy you get from burning Hydrogen, you have to spend a joule or more to make it. We could probably produce it by using hydroelectric power, but we only have sufficient HE power in the Northwest, and then we'd have to ship it. Hydrogen is very hard to handle. It can't be liquified and it can't be piped any distance. It has to be compressed and shipped in tanks.

There are probably answers, but we won't find them until and unless the Gov starts funding serious energy research, something that's not included in Cheney's energy plan.

And as for waste grease from restaurants: it's all reused. Not for food, but for chemical manufacture. I understand that a lot of used cooking fat is cleaned up and used in cosmetics.

---dr.M.

 

[rgraham666]

Do you know when we'll get solar power? When Imperial Oil can figure out a way to bring it to us in a truck.

The Royal Canadian Air Farce

 

[Lauren Hynde]

This would work in Europe, too. I understand that gas is already more than $2/gallon there, and your buses and trains need fuel too.

Most buses here run on natural gas...

 

[NoJo]

I understand that gas is already more than $2/gallon there,

Nearer $6, Slick!

 

[Liar]

beware ... serious post below

Harold mentioned Hydrogen. Probably the most sensible solution to the fossil fuel plauge there is. Au contraire from the days of Hindenburg, handling hydrogen and making hydrogen powered motors are safe now, and the only thing you will pollute the closest environment with is a little extra humidity.

There is bacically one thing that still is a problem. Ok, it's nicer to the environment to burn. Cool. But is it nice to the environment to make? Nuh-huh. The process of manufacturing fuel to get the soccer mom one mile in her SUV is just as important to the environment as the actual combustion of the stuff. Sure, sum it up, and it is still a better choice than gasoline, but the energy needed to purify, compress and store hydrogen is in no way environment friendly.

Give it a few decades, and it will be. The question is, do we have a few decades worth of oil (or planet) left?

Also, I saw a list of the most polluting things in my local Stockholm area the other week. There were petrochemical plants, a 1,5 million city full of car commuters, coal power plants and various other heavy duty industries. Guess what was - by far - the biggest polluter of them all? The airport.

To do something drastic to lower the carbon dioxide pollution, running city busses on ethanol or natural gas, or bitching about fuel efficiency on your Volvo, is pretty much in the margin. Ground planes. Take the train instead of flying domestic. Jet engines are the biggest baddies of them all.

#L

 

[GodBlessTexas]

I'm glad there are people in the world to worry about these problems, because they don't seem to be of much concern here in Texas. Here, if you drive a little car, you're a freak, unless it's really sporty and has a ass-kicking, fuel-sucking hot-rod engine in it. Everybody loves their pick-up trucks and SUV's, and while I don't have any numbers, I'd bet good money that we lead the world in per-capita SUV/truck ownership.

Before you "rest-of-the-worlders" start cussing us, check out this solution I received via e-mail a few days ago. Personally, I'm not so sure this wouldn't be a good idea!

God, I love to stir things up!

 

[SlickTony]

I thought you were going to suggest squeezing the oil out of fat people.

Hell, Dr. M, if it could be done painlessly and in such a way as to ensure the fat people's survival, don't you know they'd be lining up to have the procedure done? And I'd be right up there trying to get "backsies" from someone I knew.

I was practically afraid to come back here. Now I'll go back and actually read the replies that have come down since last night.

I'd bet good money that we lead the world in per-capita SUV/truck ownership.

Yeah, if I had some money to bet I'd bet on something else. My momma has just herself and 2 cats (and my daughter till September) in her household, and she goes about in an Expedition. Well, it is good for hauling stuff. We've been putting off getting a new piece of fencing because there's no way you can haul a 10' (or whatever the std. is) length of fencing home in a Nissan or an Escort and we're too cheap to get HD to deliver it.

Strangely enough, Azar told me that my mother really doesn't like Bush, even though she voted for him both times, and can't quite bring herself to vote for Kerry. The reason she doesn't like Bush is that he is further to the right than she is, in terms of religion, and that I find very scary, but that's for another discussion.

Cute piece, GBT, but eventually we will run out of oil. Even Texas. And if the guys in the Texas National Guard take their duties as seriously as George II did when he was in the service, I'm not going to worry about them. My TKD class will be able to kick their asses to Mexico, especially as they (the guard) will probably be hung over a great deal of the time.

 

[fifty5]

Re: Re: Possibly politically incorrect solutions to the western world's problems

... Hydrogen ...

But I understood that most hydrogen was locked up in water (or hydrocarbons) - and to liberate it you need electricity, provided from...

And that's the rub - the only raw fuel that there's enough of (since while wind/wave/tidal/hydro-electric etc. can certainly contribute, there ain't enough to do the whole job) is atomic!   (20 years ago, there was already enough 'spent fuel' - which can be 'burnt' in breeder reactors - in UK bunkers to generate more power than we've ever got from coal.  Yup - ever!)

No, I don't like that either, but I do like my car, my central heating, electric lights, refrigerators, TV, computers, power tools...



f5