Pop culture in stories

[TadOverdon]

As a matter of fact on Facebook I've been seeing posts about a novel called "Condominum" that was written forty years that people claim is relevant to the current disaster.

 

[jaF0]

I kinda touched on some of this in the Easter Egg thread. Pop culture doesn't have to mean current disasters. In a recent story where one of the characters is named Alice, I touch on Alice's Restaurant, All The Young Girls Love Alice and Alice In Wonderland.

 

[yowser]

When including pop-culture references (or anything obscure in a literary or technical way) possibly unfamiliar to your audience, I suggest you consider carefully your readers’ potential reaction.

It is one thing to have the detail serve as a ‘marker’ – a cultural signpost of time and place – but you probably don’t want your reader stopping in the middle of a paragraph and going ‘who the hell is X?’

I find it particularly off-putting when it feels like the author is being cute (“here is an esoteric nugget I know about but you don’t”). Unexplained acronyms are especially annoying.

I think EB’s point (“never as a plot mover or something to dwell on”) – a light touch that doesn’t interfere with the overall tale – is a good approach.

 

[KeithD]

I kinda touched on some of this in the Easter Egg thread. Pop culture doesn't have to mean current disasters. In a recent story where one of the characters is named Alice, I touch on Alice's Restaurant, All The Young Girls Love Alice and Alice In Wonderland.

Some of the most satisfying and challenging writing can be constructing a story with several levels of access--writing it so that it satisfies readers with memories of historical/cultural references embedded in it while not confusing or offputting another level of reader not familiar with those references. Somewhat like the so-called "children's" books that can satisfy both the child the book is being read to and the adult, on a different level, who is reading the book to the child.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

As a matter of fact on Facebook I've been seeing posts about a novel called "Condominum" that was written forty years that people claim is relevant to the current disaster.

And about 10 years ago there was a Rizzoli & Isles episode that dealt with the collapse of a brand new building because the builder took some short cut that didn't show up until they had some heavy rain. And as this takes place in Boston, it wasn't even up for a year.

Buildings have been collapsing for as long as man has been building them. They will continue to collapse in the future. Just think of all those bridges you drive over every day that have been around for decades without having any repairs done to them. Kinda makes you want to stay home and wear a mask.

 

[jaF0]

And about 10 years ago there was a Rizzoli & Isles episode ...

I used to really like that show. Then it got ... weird.

 

[KeithD]

Kinda makes you want to stay home and wear a mask.

I've kinda been doing that for the last fourteen months. Went to my first maskless concert (all gray hairs, of course, in an area of the country believing in science) with distancing (and wine) included, and I felt guilty about stepping out like this.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've kinda been doing that for the last fourteen months. Went to my first maskless concert (all gray hairs, of course, in an area of the country believing in science) with distancing (and wine) included, and I felt guilty about stepping out like this.

There's no need for people who've been vaccinated to be skittish about socializing. I got my vaccine at the first opportunity possible and haven't looked back. Life is short and full of risk and death is 100% certain. Have fun while you can!

 

[KeithD]

There's no need for people who've been vaccinated to be skittish about socializing. I got my vaccine at the first opportunity possible and haven't looked back. Life is short and full of risk and death is 100% certain. Have fun while you can!

Happily, I can have fun at home, writing on the computer. I had enough fun for most people before I hit forty.

 

[TadOverdon]

The Godfather. It's almost as embedded in popular culture as Casablanca. I think it's a pretty safe reference to use without dating a story too much.

I've decided that my protagonist uses it in conversation to emphasize a plot point that's been made clear to the reader earlier.

"We don't have a choice. Make the deal."

"Huh? After what they've pulled?"

"Like the guy said in The Godfather: this is business, not personal. They've got us, here. They already own part of us. If we don't play ball with them, they just move on to another distributor. Then they sue for a seat on the board anyway. And with his ego on the line, your dad—"

"—will go to the mattresses, yeah. I get it. Even if we win in court, which I doubt, we'll have lost out in the marketplace. So what, then, we lie down with pigs?"

"The Novaks aren't quite that bad."

"Really? Do you trust Aleksandra?"

"No."

"Do you trust Stefan?"

"I…don't know. But we'd be making him CEO, not dictator. Christ, I've had to maneuver around your father so many times that I expect I can handle Stefan. For now."

 

[ChuckWolf]

I usually just make up fictitious pop-culture references.

Right now, the closest I've gotten is with my Coach Laurie stories, using the 80's sex-comedy trope of the hot & sexy female gym-teacher as well as other elements from those films.

In upcoming erotic stories, a central theme involves TV shows & actress composites based on their thinly-veiled counterparts from the 80's-90's.

 

[Salacious_Scribe]

I don't put in overt pop culture references, but I do sprinkle them in as Easter Eggs.

In one story my MC is Jon. His last name is not used. His brother is referred to as Mr. Bonjovee once.

Almost every story I write that has romance will have "as you wish" from the Princess Bride. This way those who know get it, those who dont... dont, and it doesnt date the story.

 

[Abbafan]

As long as its not forced, I can't think of anything wrong with it. I mean, pop culture is everywhere. It makes sense characters might end up talking about horror movies, or their favorite commercials while lounging around watching TV.

 

[TadOverdon]

How about this one:

"I think you should go home to your island, Aleksandra. Before someone drops a house on you, too."

 

[windar]

I'd love for someone to write a story where a wife leaves a man and moves in with a high flying hedge fund manager who has incidentally placed a huge short option on GameStop.

Or.. a maritime crew stuck at the Suez Canal in March getting frisky.

Or.. well the elephant in the room, Covid.

I have a whole series of stories invoving a billionaire hedge funder, though I didn't mention specific investments (I don't give my secrets away for free). Hey if EL James can have a mysterious billionaire and can become something close to one herself from writing about it, why not yours truly?

The Suez Canal-no I skipped that one.

Covid, absolutely! I had one within a few weeks of NYC shutting down.

None of these are on this site, but you can PM me or look for them yourself.

And I don't think they date the story. Wealth disparities in our society have been an issue for many years and will continue to be for many years longer, I'm afraid. Covid has been such a gigantic historical event that it will not be forgotten in the lifetime of this site or any other similar one.

To me, to just have people fucking without any social context is not very interesting...

 

[rescatooor]

Wasn't there a whole covid event last year?

I'm sure most people have some kind of covid story. I'm sure tags like covid, corona or pandemic being some results.

 

[yukonnights]

I think it's worth making the references clear enough that people who haven't seen the TV show or heard of the character will still get the point, whether because they're on a different continent or 20 years in the future. If people get the references, they get something extra out of the story.

Personally I like details that show a story is set in a definite place and probable time - it seems more vivid and real than all the generic characters in Anytown, USA. When those feel real it helps the characters feel real which makes their activities more convincing.

This ^ Without actually counting, I can say that a majority of my stories include fairly detailed settings. A good proportinon of these are a look-back into the past. Thus, little bread-crumbs of references will be found in them to solidify that period. In general, current times don't interest me enough to detail much about the setting — some of the ones I've written could be anywhere in the USA in the last 30 or 40 years. These tend to focus on some specific sexual aspect.

I agree wholeheartedly with K-queen above in regard to these details making the characters feel more real, their activities, slang dialogue, cars/trucks, technology, etc — all of these anchor the story more firmly and paint a broader image in the reader's mind. Plus, I enjoy writing them

 

[TadOverdon]

Wasn't there a whole covid event last year?

I'm sure most people have some kind of covid story. I'm sure tags like covid, corona or pandemic being some results.

One of the "most favorited authors" on the board got a 100,000+ word book out of the pandemic social isolation period. I/T, naturally.

 

[Blind_Justice]

I like my pop culture references clever and in moderation, both as a reader and writer. That said, in "Mud & Magic 1-3", I challenged my readsrs to find the fifteen easter eggs as a little Geek Pride game and got zero takers. Either they were too busy enjoying the story or I hid them too well.

For example, instead of rolling out the obvious (and meme'd to death) Skyrim quote "I once was an adventurer like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee", I used "I'm sworn to carry your burden". That's one of the more memorable lines coming from Lydia, one of the first companions you can get in the game.

Same with this year's Geek Pride story "Rotten To The Core". This time I tossed in sixteen song titles ranging from the blatantly obvious to the obscure. At least I got some takers this time, but even the best scored maybe five hits plus a few I'm sure I didn't put in there.

I think context has a lot to do with it. I used some song titles as references or jokes (like my protag butchering Bon Jovi's (Wanted) Dead or Alive) to tease a motorcycle-riding paladin). These got caught while distince phrases not obviously used in a music context got overlooked. "For The Love Of God" is one of Steve Vai's signature tunes, but used as an exasparated outburst, no one caught that one.

 

[LAHomedog]

Allow me to go back to my basic mantra that I've said many times on here: There are no rules regarding art and creativity. No rules. No right or wrong.

If pop culture works for your story and your characters include it. If it doesn't, don't. It's that simple.

Does your couple meet and fuck in a unisex restroom at a Coldplay concert? Great. Does she get hot because of the oral sex in "Outlander?" Great!

Whatever makes your story work. Go for it.

 

[TadOverdon]

Aleksandra doesn't get the pop reference:

Ethan snickered. "She who controls Arrakis…"

Aleksandra stared blankly at him.

"You don't want to change the world, Alex. You just want to rule it."

"Stop calling me that."

 

[PoisonPen33]

I agree that pop culture references tend to date the story. In my case, two of my characters are huge movie buffs and one loves video games. They'll make references that more often than not have to be explained (or not, depending) in one or two lines, but that's how they talk. Otherwise, it's Gilmore Girls where everyone peppers that conversation with pop culture. If you don't know the reference, you risk getting lost.

It's doesn't 100% apply, but Red Letter Media mentions this a lot - "Don't reference a more popular movie in your movie, otherwise, you're reminding viewers they could be watching that movie instead of yours."

 

[purplishy]

No one has yet mentioned that there's a whole category for this: Celebrities & Fan Fiction! After all, what is celebrity if not pop culture?

I don't write in this category, but I definitely enjoy lesbian celebrity stories. Lit has been around for so long, and sometimes when reading an old story it can be a little weird knowing how the celebrity looked 20+ years ago when the story was written... as well as today

 

[TadOverdon]

I agree that pop culture references tend to date the story. In my case, two of my characters are huge movie buffs and one loves video games. They'll make references that more often than not have to be explained (or not, depending) in one or two lines, but that's how they talk. Otherwise, it's Gilmore Girls where everyone peppers that conversation with pop culture. If you don't know the reference, you risk getting lost.

It's doesn't 100% apply, but Red Letter Media mentions this a lot - "Don't reference a more popular movie in your movie, otherwise, you're reminding viewers they could be watching that movie instead of yours."

In almost every 20th century novel I've read there are popular culture references that I don't immediately get, and they don't usually confuse me much. These days I have a tendency to read things with Google close at hand, anyway - a thing in a story will make me curious, and I look it up immediately. I did that a great deal when ready Madeline Miller's mythology-based books.

But Fitzgerald's full of them, as is Hemingway. Their stories are dated by the very fact that they're writing about their contemporary world. You can't take For Whom The Bell Tolls out of its specific setting, and you have to know or find out at least a few things about that conflict in order to understand all that goes on, because he refers to the politics of the situation without stopping to explain it. Not many people write primarily for an assumed readership of far future archeologists.

I'll venture a guess that more people get references to The Wizard of Oz as a movie than any Shakespeare quote, including anything from Romeo and Juliet and that will become more true with passing time. Oz is something of a perennial favorite that you can probably go watch right now, if you like...and because it's popular electronic media rather than a book, many times more people will be exposed to it.

If fiction's not specific, it's generic.