Point of View, and Tense

[PorscheLynn]

I'm brand spanking new to writing erotica (lame pun intended). Fairly new, in fact, to reading it, though hardly new to erotica in general (to be blunt, I watch a lot of porn, and have read some erotica here and there before as well).

Two key things I'm trying to get a handle on are what tense to use, and what point of view to use.

"And then she kissed him"

or

"And now I'm kissing him"

or somewhere in between? I'm tending toward the immediacy of the second example when it comes to the actual moments - or hours - of passion. But this style doesn't work as well in the more mundane building up of introducing characters, and mounting tension.

Thoughts, anyone? I'm a bit at a loss, though I'm doing alright otherwise.

 

[minsue]

Welcome!

As a reader, I prefer 3rd person over first, but what really matters is that you keep it consistent throughout the story. Nothing is more irritating than trying to read a story where the POV jumps back and forth.

- Mindy

 

[shereads]

Over in the hinterlands (Sexual Roleplay forum) I like using first-person/present-tense, not for the reader's benefit - most of us read our own stories and we don't invite critiques - but because it's more fun for me. I imagine myself in the moment, and write what I think I'd do and feel. Of course, I'm not writing erotic fiction. I'm playing with a partner, for our pleasure and maybe a teensy, exhibitionist thrill.



I have read at least one novel that was beautifully written in first-person, present-tense. Andrew Pyper's "The Lost Girls." It's a suspense novel with hints of the supernatural, and a darkly witty character study. The use of present-tense keeps the suspense alive because it makes each new threat and response seem immediate - and allows the use of a first-person narration without revealing whether the protagonist will survive.

Is that an erotica issue? It is if you're writing a killer sex scene.

 

[minsue]

Over in the hinterlands (Sexual Roleplay forum) I like using first-person/present-tense, not for the reader's benefit - most of us read our own stories and we don't invite critiques - but because it's more fun for me. I imagine myself in the moment, and write what I think I'd do and feel. Of course, I'm not writing erotic fiction. I'm playing with a partner, for our pleasure and maybe a teensy, exhibitionist thrill.



I have read at least one novel that was beautifully written in first-person, present-tense. Andrew Pyper's "The Lost Girls." It's a suspense novel with hints of the supernatural, and a darkly witty character study. The use of present-tense keeps the suspense alive because it makes each new threat and response seem immediate - and allows the use of a first-person narration without revealing whether the protagonist will survive.

Is that an erotica issue? It is if you're writing a killer sex scene.

You're right. Somehow I think sexual roleplay would definitely not be as fun in 3rd person.

There are definitely some very good first person works out there. Jfinn's Amy's Smile series immediately jumps to mind. *fighting the urge to PM her demanding the next chapter, dammit!* I tend to prefer third person, but again it's just a personal preference issue. The main thing is consistency.

 

[lucky-E-leven]

I think it depends on the category you write in, as well as your intent with the piece.

Most of my stories lean toward the romance side and in this case, I think spelling thoughts and emotions out detracts from the reader's experience. I like to give the reader the opportunity to impose their own sense of fun-loving in the story and hope that makes it more 'real' for them. But for straight smut, wank, stroke, porn...whatever you want to call it, first person can be more moving. (as stated above by the lovely Shereads....and she should know....she reads.)

If your intent is to describe in detail the ins and outs (sorry for the pun) of a particular love scene and get people hard/wet then I'd say first person.

If your intent is to sweep them up in a story and toss in some good fucking to add to the effect then I'd go with third person.

just my 'druthers.

~lucky

Oh yeah, welcome to the lion's den. We're mostly a docile bunch that prefers licking , but do be on the lookout for claws and fangs. Enjoy and don't hesitate to ask for help, most here are happy to oblige.

 

[PorscheLynn]

Thanks for the opinions (and I welcome any others anyone else has).

As an example of why I'm tending toward the idea of the first-person, present-tense style, here's a snippet from the conversation-turned-naughty-storytime that inspired me to finetune in into a full story.

Every bit of me is tingling now, my nipples, my clit, my toes.. all feel as if they're afire. But slowly, agonisingly, but with love.. the thrusting slows, the heat in his eyes dissipates into a hardened look of lusty purpose. It feels like hours between when I realise he's stopping this glorious blowjob, and when he gently slips out between my lips, sweetly allowing me a moment to linger, kissing the tip of his penis, making him tremble.

As I said, I like the immediacy that it has that way. Maybe I'm being way too posessive of a first draft (I can get like that) but I have a hard time envisioning this in past-tense, let alone in third-person as well.

Sorry to be so needy, just having a nervous-newbie moment.

 

[minsue]

Thanks for the opinions (and I welcome any others anyone else has).

As an example of why I'm tending toward the idea of the first-person, present-tense style, here's a snippet from the conversation-turned-naughty-storytime that inspired me to finetune in into a full story.

As I said, I like the immediacy that it has that way. Maybe I'm being way too posessive of a first draft (I can get like that) but I have a hard time envisioning this in past-tense, let alone in third-person as well.

Sorry to be so needy, just having a nervous-newbie moment.

I definitely agree with you about using present tense.

Never apologize for asking questions, PorscheLynn. Hopefully, you'll still get more responses & advice. Especially since only 1 of the 3 of us, lucky-E-leven, actually has any stories on Lit.

- Mindy

 

[Weird Harold]

As I said, I like the immediacy that it has that way. Maybe I'm being way too posessive of a first draft (I can get like that) but I have a hard time envisioning this in past-tense, let alone in third-person as well.

First Person, Present Tense mght not seem like it but it's on of the hardest ways to write well because you're so limited in what your POV character is allowed to "know."

Third Person, past tense, "omniscient" is the most forgiving style, so most readers prefer it and it's usually the easiest way to write a story. However, it does lack the immediacy of a well written First Person story and doesn't suit all stories.

I'd say you should go with what your muse tells you is best -- what's best for the story you want to tell and what you want to accomplish.

Every POV and Tense combination has strong points and weak points, but all are capable of telling a riveting story when well executed.

 

[The_Fool]

Anything but 2nd person. I click back immediately. Very hard to do well.

 

[shereads]

I like your paragraph as presented. Moreover, think how much fun the Old Testament would be in a present-tense version? All that knowing and begetting wouldn't have been so easy to skip over.

 

[herecomestherain]

PorscheLynn, hello sweetie and a big welcome to Lit.


I like the intimacy of first person. Try to find a method that feels right for you. The last story I posted to Lit is in first person and it was easy to write in many ways, it just flowed. The first person POV has an immediacy that I like and if there is a good deal of yourself in the character, you have easy access to the innermost feelings, desires and impressions of the narrator. In a way it allows you to speak authentically in you own voice. It has limitations too but is certainly worth trying.

A useful commentry on all the POVs...
http://www.erotica-readers.com/ERA/A-POV.htm

 

[Guest]

I'm brand spanking new to writing erotica (lame pun intended). Fairly new, in fact, to reading it, though hardly new to erotica in general (to be blunt, I watch a lot of porn, and have read some erotica here and there before as well).

Two key things I'm trying to get a handle on are what tense to use, and what point of view to use.

"And then she kissed him"

or

"And now I'm kissing him"

or somewhere in between? I'm tending toward the immediacy of the second example when it comes to the actual moments - or hours - of passion. But this style doesn't work as well in the more mundane building up of introducing characters, and mounting tension.

Thoughts, anyone? I'm a bit at a loss, though I'm doing alright otherwise.

First of all, welcome to Lit and the AH.

This is my own, personal, slant on this, and is not meant to influence how you want to write - you have to develop your own style, and will realise your own preferences as your experience grows.

I prefer third person or first person, both written in the past tense. I see writing a story as exactly that; giving an account of something that happened, telling that story as it was - from the POV of the main character, or many characters, if using multiple POV.

For me, the only time present tense works is in sexual role-play, because that is an immediate thing. The writers are so drawn into it, and it can get fast and furious, that it does almost feel as if it is happening "now". However, when it comes to an actual short story, I can never suspend disbelief enough to make myself think: yes, this is happening "now". I just can't get drawn into it. How can somebody write about what's happening to them, as it's happening to them? I know, it isn't as straightforward as that, but it just doesn't work for me.

To me, the only time present tense works is if it is presented correctly, and in the right context. An example of this is if a character is in a certain situation, described in the narrative, and is writing an account of what is happening to them at that moment. A journal type thing, I guess.

Never write in second person, unless you are writing a story specifically for and to someone. There is one story, written in the second person, that gets me hot 'n' horny (as it were), every single time I read it, but I know for sure: that particular story was written for me. I doubt it would work for anyone else, in the way it does for me.

Lou

 

[snooper]

... Two key things I'm trying to get a handle on are what tense to use, and what point of view to use. ...

May I add to the welcome, both to Lit and to the mad world of authorship.

One small consideration of POV is the reader. If I read a first person story where the narrator starts, "I had my first child at my breast sucking away" that makes it difficult for me to identify with her, as I am male and 65 in a month or so. If it starts, "She had her first child at her breast sucking away" then I can quite happily be the invisible observer of this event.

In the present tense, things always seem rushed and hectic. Also they must happen in the right order, which makes simultaneous events in two places quite impossible to write about. The use of first person with present tense makes simultaneous events simpler, since the narrator can only be in one place at once, and will only hear reports of the second event later.

However, the best advice is "Write what you are comfortable writing."

 

[PorscheLynn]

Thanks everyone..

I admit, I'm possibly more unsure than when I started, but in a good way. I have a better sense of the good points and the bad points of all of these possibilities. (By the way, no worries, I have no intention of writing in 2nd person.. 2nd person is unfathomably difficult anyhow, and simply doesn't work well for most writing of any kind.)

I'm still struggling a bit to pick a tense and stick to it.. so any other advice is certainly welcome. But as I said, thank you all so much for the advice thus far, it's a great help.

 

[dirtylover]

re

Hi, welcome, ladida, , etc

How about mixing up past and present? (against all prevailing wisdom)

You could tell the story in the past, and then have the you, the protagonist, thinking in the present during erotic scenes...

eg
The BMW crunched up the gravel path, and dirtylover stepped smartly out. He was wearing a blue, silk suit with a daffodil in the lapel, and a tall top-hat. He leant over to Lynn and kissed her softly on the forehead....

He's kissing me! Oh my god, what am I doing? But it feels so good. etc


....nah, scrap it, it's a shit idea, pevailing wisdom prevails. On the strength of your sample paragraph I think you should play about with your writing though...

 

[PorscheLynn]

No, I actually like that idea. Perhaps not specifically like that, but I like opening up the possibility that with the right reason, I could have the sex present tense and the story past tense. I'm going to have to play with this idea.

 

[LadyM..]

hello PorscheLynn and everyone else....

as a new member of this forum, here is my first offical posting. i'd like to offer two opinions on this topic.

first - i'm all for going against the prevailing wisdom. i have done so myself with great results. if your comfortable with your characters and plot then mixing things up can be an added bonus to your writing.

second - maybe it's just me however you have one line in your sample paragraph:

"But slowly, agonisingly, but with love.. the thrusting slows,"

forgive me for nit picking, however i strongly dislike using the word "but" in a story. while i do understand it is sometimes necessary, you should try to avoid using this word (or any descriptive word) twice in the same sentence. mho

LadyM

 

[dirtylover]

Prevailing wisdom would suggest you're right

 

[PorscheLynn]

Thanks for picking up on that repeat of the word "but" LadyM!!! I was wondering if anyone noticed. You see, I knew it was there, and dislike it as well, at least the use of two in a row like that. But it was very late when I chose a sample to illustrate my point, so while I otherwise think this is one of the better parts of the story so far, that part really bugs me too. I know what I'm trying to convey, but it doesn't word out well. Ah well, first drafts are like that.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound snotty or anything, like "Well of COURSE I knew that was there!".. I just wanted to say I'm glad you brought it up, because it shows you read the sample I posted. And it points out something I didn't see; the fact that the word "but" in and of itself can be clunky, not really a preferable choice. I may still keep one of them in that sentance, but (ha, ha) it's a nice reminder of how to get into the "right" language for this sort of writing. I'm finding that the flow of a sentence and the story as a whole is even more important than it is in other writing.

Anyways.. sorry to keep answering every reply. I'm a bit of a chatterbox, part by nature, partly because I'm excited at this new endevour.

 

[dirtylover]

I love buts, can't get enough of them

 

[LadyM..]

Your welcome PorscheLynn, tis the type of thing I usually pick up on first. The word 'but' always seems to grab my attention when used, since it's what I consider a filler word. Try using this instead:

Quote: (with changes)

Every bit of me is tingling now, my nipples, my clit, my toes.. all feel as if they're afire. Slowly, agonizingly, with love! The thrusting slows, the heat in his eyes dissipates into a hardened look of lusty purpose.

Or

Slowly, agonizingly, the thrusting slows; the heat in his eyes dissipates into a hardened look of lusty purpose.

First drafts can always be a pain and I find myself guilty of using too many filler words when I first put thought to page. I have a list of 'don't use words' and 'over used words' that I run a find and replace search for at the end of each chapter. This has been a helpful tool for me and over time I've learned ways to replace or delete such words in my stories.

I look forward to reading more of this story as you progress.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Thanks for picking up on that repeat of the word "but" LadyM!!! I was wondering if anyone noticed. You see, I knew it was there, and dislike it as well, at least the use of two in a row like that. But it was very late when I chose a sample to illustrate my point, so while I otherwise think this is one of the better parts of the story so far, that part really bugs me too. I know what I'm trying to convey, but it doesn't word out well. Ah well, first drafts are like that.

Anyhow, I don't mean to sound snotty or anything, like "Well of COURSE I knew that was there!".. I just wanted to say I'm glad you brought it up, because it shows you read the sample I posted. And it points out something I didn't see; the fact that the word "but" in and of itself can be clunky, not really a preferable choice. I may still keep one of them in that sentance, but (ha, ha) it's a nice reminder of how to get into the "right" language for this sort of writing. I'm finding that the flow of a sentence and the story as a whole is even more important than it is in other writing.

Anyways.. sorry to keep answering every reply. I'm a bit of a chatterbox, part by nature, partly because I'm excited at this new endevour.

Hi, PorscheLynn,

Welcome to Lit. and to AH. This is a good place to hang out while taking a break from writing or procrastinating or just hanging out.

Since you are okay with nit-picking, here is another one. When oral sex is being performed on a man, he does not usually "thrust" but sits or stands or lies passively while the fellatist strokes him with his or her mouth. In fact, if the man receiving the oral sex is too active, some people will refuse to continue.

 

[Guest]

Hi, PorscheLynn,

Welcome to Lit. and to AH. This is a good place to hang out while taking a break from writing or procrastinating or just hanging out.

Since you are okay with nit-picking, here is another one. When oral sex is being performed on a man, he does not usually "thrust" but sits or stands or lies passively while the fellatist strokes him with his or her mouth. In fact, if the man receiving the oral sex is too active, some people will refuse to continue.

That isn't always the case, Box.

Lou

 

[lucky-E-leven]

That isn't always the case, Box.

Lou

Opening minds all over the place today, Lou!

~lucky

 

[PorscheLynn]

Yep, I'm definitely a member of Nitpicker's Anonymous.

Nitpicking right back, I have reasons for that, actually. Within the context, there is a building up to that - that the lady in question happens to be the rare type who loves to give oral sex to a man, and that the night is particularly passionate; he doesn't usually thrust.. minor happy squirming, but not thrusting really. Also it's a somewhat dom/sub situation, she is getting off on him controlling this act in which usually the woman has all the control. Lastly, it's a position for oral sex they're never done (he is kneeling next to her, she is lying on her back, her head to the side and propped up on a pillow).

And then there's the simple matter of that's actually how it happened. As I'm new at this, what's easiest for me is to write in detail about a recent sexual encounter, and draw it out from there, expanding on it.


Playing my own Devil's Advocate, however... I do appreciate the advice, since erotica is best when it appeals on a somewhat more universal level. It simply never occured to me that this is uncomfortable, even completely impractical for many folks. I'll take that into account, and tone it down slightly and or work in some of those nitpicky reasons that I just explained above. Thanks for the insight!