Plots

[jon.hayworth]

I have been looking at some software called NEW NOVELIST (I would be interested to know if anyone has used it).

It works on the premise that there are only a limited number of plots. In the past I have seen them reduced to as few as 3 more usually 7 and expanded to 36. New Novelist strikes the middle ground with 14 possibilities.

New novelist gives the following plots -
puzzle, locale adventure, chase, capture and escape, triumphant victim, revenge, kidnap and rescue, supernatural, love story, intense love story, coming of age, character adventure, excess and downfall, and internal transformation.

Do you think this list is comprehensive or can you think of plots that do not fit into the category list?

jon

 

[BigTexan]

Jon,

Who was it that said there was only one story told in infinite ways? Hmm, can't remember.

Anyways, in erotica I think are a different set of plots.

My favorite is "Prim wife becomes raging slut."

BigTexan

 

[Whispersecret]

My favorite is "Prim wife becomes raging slut."

BigTexan

That would be "internal transformation."

 

[BigTexan]

That would be "internal transformation."

Hmm, I guess it could be, or it could be "Revenge" if done differently or perhaps "triumphant victim".

Really, I don't see those terms as being a "plot" per se.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's happend before (many times), but isn't the plot a little more detailed than saying "Revenge"?

I mean wouldn't the plot be more along the lines of:

Prim wife get's a extraordinary makeover and loses her inhibitions. Her husband finds out and supports her "new" outlook on life pushing her to repeat the makeover. Wife decides that since Hubby is into and supportive of the "new" her, she will explore her new found sexuality to the greatest extent."

I guess what I'm saying is that "Revenge" may be the underlying theme of the story, but the plot is the actual story line itself.

Or maybe I just don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

BigTexan

 

[JUDO]

Jon -

In every story worth its salt, there had better always be an "internal transformation" with the main character, or the story is automatically boring.

I believe that the problem with categorizing story plots is that it limits the author's imagination.

I look at your list and I see scenes, not stories.


- Judo

 

[Lauren Hynde]

New novelist gives the following plots -
puzzle, locale adventure, chase, capture and escape, triumphant victim, revenge, kidnap and rescue, supernatural, love story, intense love story, coming of age, character adventure, excess and downfall, and internal transformation.

I think Judo's right. I've read several books... well, I'm thinking about one in particular, that contain ALL those elements in different moments of the action, and I don't think either of them is prevalent over the rest in the whole. And I truly hope there are a lot more plots than those.

 

[jon.hayworth]

I tend to agree - classifacation of plots does tend to be reductionist. The question that I am asking is; have the writers of this software struck a reasonable balance - or have they oversimplified to the point where the program will not work. I read a couple of rave reviews and have ordered it and now I am having second thoughts as to whether or not it is worth the money.

I know the only way to write is hard toil, sweat, and in my case innumerable cups of coffee and cigarettes. But if the software helps cut down any of the foregoing maybe - just maybe ...

Lauren.Hynde if like me you are really getting into the number of plots thing - try to get hold of a copy of "Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations" by Georges Polti pub The Writer, Inc.

If anyone is interested the link for the New Novelist software is

http://www.newnovelist.com/

jon

 

[wildsweetone]

Georges Polti, I was looking at his 36 Plots a couple of weeks ago...

http://www.wordplayer.com/archives/poltisitu.01-12.html

 

[jon.hayworth]

I wish that I had a found Polti on the Internet 4 years ago when I needed his book.

I looked and the site gave all his classifacations and sub categories - fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!

At that time it cost me about double the US cover price to get it on special order.

Now the basic's are all up for free. However the book is still worth the read to get his actual theories.

jon (sick as a parrot)

 

[KillerMuffin]

Well, I use index cards and WordPerfect. My plot points are generally saved separately so I can move them around. I put the main points on a white card, and various subplot points on various other cards. I do my best plotting when I don't have the window to the world computer distracting me.

I can lay the cards out and move them around, delete, add to, etc. as needed. I can do it at the kitchen table or the doctor's office. I can write notes and develop characters. This is, of course, something that's easy for me. That doesn't mean it's easy for you.

I believe that if you can't piece a plot together as it is, all the software in the world isn't going to help you. If you're the kind of person that keeps track well on a computer, then it sounds like a good buy. If you're not, it's probably going to be a waste of money.

 

[Quasimodem]

Originally posted by BigTexan
... Really, I don't see those terms as being a "plot" per se ... Maybe I'm wrong ... but isn't the plot a little more detailed than saying "Revenge"?

I guess what I'm saying is that "Revenge" may be the underlying theme of the story, but the plot is the actual story line itself...

I'm with you, Tex.
'Themes' are what I would call them, too!

A plot follows a line of action from a conflict, through a crisis, to a conclusion.

A plot is like:

'Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy builds girl.'

 

[wildsweetone]

Kind of like CAUSE and EFFECT...

 

[Whispersecret]

While revenge can be a theme, it can also be a plot. Look at The Count of Monte Cristo. That was a revenge plot. Man is wronged. Man plans revenge. Man exacts revenge (or not.)

I have a book called 20 Master Plots and How to Build Them Here are the plots the author lists. I tried to include examples of well-known stories, but couldn't think of one for every plot.

1. Quest - A character searches for a person, place, or thing, and is greatly changed by the end. (Wizard of Oz.)
2. Adventure - A character embarks on an adventure, but the focus is on the adventure, not on the character. (Raiders of the Lost Ark.)
3. Pursuit - Someone is being chased. (Alien)
4. Rescue - The focus is mainly on the hero and villain, the victim being secondary and sometimes only the catalyst for the hero and villain to confront each other.
5. Escape - Often someone is imprisoned and escapes.
6. Revenge - see above
7. The Riddle - This is basically any mystery story.
8. Rivalry - Two equally matched rivals struggle for power. (Ben Hur)
9. Underdog - Similar to the rivalry plot, except the rivals aren't equally matched. (Cinderella)
10. Temptation - A character is tempted, struggles internally, gives in, learns a lesson, and atones.
11. Metamorphosis - Someone is physically transformed (usually by a curse) and must be released from the curse. (Beauty and the Beast)
12. Transformation - Shows a character in the process of change through one of the many stages of life. (My Fair Lady)
13. Maturation - A character begins on the cusp of adulthood and learns something about how the world really works. (Stand by Me)
14. Love - Boy meets girl, etc.
15. Forbidden Love - A love story that goes against the conventions of society. (Harold and Maude)
16. Sacrifice - Someone gives up something precious in the face of a moral dilemma. (Casablanca)
17. Discovery - A character on the cusp of change is forced toward a self-revelation.
18. Wretched Excess - A story about the psychological decline of a character.
19/20. Ascension and Descension - A character either rises from bad circumstances, or falls from good ones.

I'm not exactly sure how Discovery, Transformation, and Maturation really differ, but I didn't write the book.

 

[KillerMuffin]

My fave plot book is "Building Better Plots."

I tried the Marshall plan and that just so did not work for me. The only thing better has been this literature class that I'm taking.

I think every writer should take a lit class. I think they have 'em on the web at most major online universities.

 

[Quasimodem]

When encountering problems from conflicting terms, I like to check what the dictionary has to say on the matter. This is from only one dictionary, but it seems to makes the differences clear.

Plot = 1. the main sequence of events in a play, novel, or film. 2. (v) devise the plot of (a play, novel, or film) 3. (v) mark (a route or position) on a chart or graph.

Theme = 1. a unifying idea that is a recurrent element in a literary or artistic work; motif.

Guess I'm still with Tex.

 

[jon.hayworth]

As I understand it.-

The Plot contains the underlying motivation - the basic driver that advances the story from the beginning to the end.

Of course in a major novel there will be sub-plots but underlying all these will be the plot.

For example take a very simple story "Easy Rider"

The plot is A Quest - to get to New Orleans for the Mardi Grass.

The theme is a journey Across the USA on Motorcycles.


I would say that "Gone With the Wind" is also a Quest - in this case the task is not to get somewhere or find something but in the face of adversity, the Heroine Scarlet, seeks to retain something Tarra.
The Civil War and the love affair with Rhett Butler are themes from which redherring sub plots spring - and fuel the main plot.

Shakespeare's Macbeth is Ascension / Descension. The theme is that men are manipulated by women. Macbeth is under the influence of both the witches and Lady Macbeth.

Themes are more the dressing - the clothes we put onto these very basic stories.

jon

Thanks Quassi you have made me do some thinking!!