please be aware of what you say...

[vylette]

something just happen to someone i knew...she took her own life after having an affair...she felt tremendous guilt over what she had done...went to her pastor to discuss it...and evidently from the note she left her pastor told her to have an affair (adultery) was an unforgiveable sin and she would be condemned to hell forever...in her letter she expressed how disappointed in herself she was and felt she could not go on...she left two young children behind...

please be aware of any advice you give people or any judgment you may pass, you never know what they will feel....she was an incredible person and now she is gone...and the world is worse off for it...

you truly do not know whose life you will effect and in what way you will effect it....words are so much more powerful than most people think.

 

[Liontamr]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss... That is a very solid reminder all of us need at times.

No matter what kind of front any of us put up, words do have a way of cutting directly into our heart and emotions and have ways of making us act and think irrational things.

Just something for a person to keep in mind next time you feel the need to cut someone down with harsh words.

 

[Rubyfruit]

That's just tragic, vylette.

I think that some people are lacking empathy and simply don't care how their actions or words can hurt.

Sad, but true.

 

[J.B.]

vylette,
I'm truly sorry for the death of your friend...
It's a shame that she went to someone she thought would give her the support she needed and the person turned out to be a thoughtless jerk...
It really disgusts me that these ... people think they are the out moral superiors and have the right to decided whether or not we'll be condemend for our actions and how.
I'm sorry your friend did not get the support she needed... and I'm sorry for your loss...
JB

 

[riff]

It's tragic, but I didn't do it. If I sound cruel, I am sorry. Suicide is suicide. I would be pissed at your friend. I am sorry she made the choice she made- but the ultimate responsibility is hers.

My deepest sympathy for your loss and the grief of her loved ones. I hope that she is at peace and no longer feels the pain that drove her to take her own life.

 

[InnocentAngel81]

although i didnt know you or your friend, i am sorry for your loss

 

[J.B.]

It's tragic, but I didn't do it. If I sound cruel, I am sorry. Suicide is suicide. I would be pissed at your friend. I am sorry she made the choice she made- but the ultimate responsibility is hers.

My deepest sympathy for your loss and the grief of her loved ones. I hope that she is at peace and no longer feels the pain that drove her to take her own life.

I understand what you're saying here riff but I disagree on some points.
Yes. the ultimate choice was hers to make an she made it.
But the point is she went to someone she thought she could trust to offer her some helpfull advice. Not condem her for all eternity. I do think some of the responcibility falls on the person who said some awfull things, when this person is supposed to be a healer and leader meaning he should also be helpfull and empathic(sp?) to the feelings of those he is counciling...

 

[paganangel]

my condolences.

fuck the church.

 

[AzureAngel]

Riff's point is that the ULTIMATE responsibility (i.e. - the choice itself) was the person's, not the pastors.

That being agreed with and settled on...

I think that it's horrible for a pastor to say such a thing. I don't know what religion she practiced, but I'd be surprised if it was a Christian one, since (perhaps I'm mistaken and it's only Lutheran) a general doctrine is that forgiveness is always possible, no matter how great the sin. I don't necessarily agree that a pastor (or any counselor) should be truly empathic, since that could be maddening... but certainly sympathetic. At least -aware- of the words that are coming out and the possible impact that they can have.

Yes, the choice was the woman's, ultimately... but there's no denying the influence wielded by trusted indivudals. We should all mind what we're saying in delicate situations.

It's an absolutely horrible story. I'm disheartened by how frequently "bad religious leader" stories have been popping up.

 

[Ishmael]

It's tragic, but I didn't do it. If I sound cruel, I am sorry. Suicide is suicide. I would be pissed at your friend. I am sorry she made the choice she made- but the ultimate responsibility is hers.

My deepest sympathy for your loss and the grief of her loved ones. I hope that she is at peace and no longer feels the pain that drove her to take her own life.

I also offer my condolences.

But riff is right. Everything that led her to her actions were her own decisions. No one else's. There is no one else to blame here.

Ishmael

 

[cymbidia]

the point is she went to someone she thought she could trust to offer her some helpfull advice. Not condem her for all eternity.

Did she go for the truth or for absolution?

When we go to people like religious leaders with our problems, we have to know ahead of time which side things they're going to land on. We have to know, if they're our religious leader, that they've preached long and thunderously about the horrors of infidelity once or twice.

Suicide is suicide. My brother killed himself, I know all about suicide up close. They choose it. It's not your fault. It's not that preacher's fault (though doubtless he's praying to his god for absolution in this matter right now). Your freind decided to do this cuz she saw no way out of her depression.

There is no blame: she killed herself.
That's all.


At the same time, i know all about survivor guilt. I know all about wanting to find someone, anyone, ANYONE, at whom to point a finger and scream, "It's YOUR fault, motherfucker!!"

But you can't.
There isn't anyone to point fingers at.
She made the decision. She did the deed.

Accept it. Try to work through the stages of grief you'll feel around this. If you're close enough to her family, try like hell to get help for those two kids she left behind in this ultimately selfish act.

I'm sorry for your pain in this.

 

[LukkyKnight]

rage against the dying...

Each life is a unique force in the world.

Each child is two people's unique gift to the world.

Our children do not choose life, or who will be their parents,
they are conceived by two who - like it or not, capable or not -
own the responsibility to do their best to prepare the child to
set forth in the world on their own, hopefully to flourish.

I am sad for the children she left behind.

If having an affair can lead her to seek the guidance of her pastor,
is the pastor's responsibility to her children not relevant?
Regardless of intent, in his role he was in place to redirect
her, to provide a perspective, to help her fulfill her parental obligation.


None of us are perfect, the past cannot be changed,
but there were better outcomes possible for this poor woman,
and her children. I wish them well.

We have all lost something which can never be recreated.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

fuck the church.

Ditto.



<--- for your friends memory.

 

[vylette]

i do know that the decision was ultimately hers...and i know her pain was so intense she saw no way out...and just one person saying harsh words doesnt make someone take a handful of pills...but i do wish he had shown her compassion...she believed in him...went to him seeking advice and hoping to be told it would be ok and was told she was wrong, told she was a bad person...there is no way of knowing if he could have helped the outcome...my mother who is a counselor has been the first to help me make sense of this...and i know it was her own personal demons she was battling...

but you will never convince me that nice words or harsh words dont make a difference in someones life...

you will never convince me that each of us touch more lives with our words or actions in a day that we arent even aware of...

i wish the pastor words had been kind and comforting...do i think she would have still taken her life?...i am sure that is definite possiblity...but at least damnation and cruel words wouldnt being running thru her head as she swallowed the pills..

i blame the pastor for not using his postion to try to comfort her when she obiviously needed it the most...no i do not think he shoved pills down her throat...i didnt mean to imply that...i think he could have comforted her and he should have...