Plagiarizing Yourself

[HeyAll]

I try avoiding it however possible. It can be difficult. The fact is, it's challenging to find new ways to describe cocksucking or an orgasm. I don't have the skills to constantly reinvent the wheel like many authors can.

What I try to do is insert context, such as what's going on in the story. Like if it's a teacher/student story, focus on that in between the sex acts. Talk about how they'd get in trouble, or how neither of them can believe it.

 

[KeithD]

I try avoiding it however possible. It can be difficult. The fact is, it's challenging to find new ways to describe cocksucking or an orgasm. I don't have the skills to constantly reinvent the wheel like many authors can.

Precisely. There are limited ways in describing the act or even the buildup to the act. If you write a lot of erotica, you'll be duplicating. And in some ways, if you have a readership, they'll be looking for a variation of something they've seen you write before and enjoyed the arousal it brought them.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

That's just that source's opinion. Plagiarism is a legal term. There is no self-plagiarism in legal terms that I'm aware of (and I work in this area).

But perhaps you can cite a self-plagiarism legal case. There could be one that changes the established definition.

A citation for this? "Is likely" should produce several examples.

Calm down, Pilot.

I'll hold back the suit issue until I have a specific case. I am afraid, however, that for all your expertise, "plagiarism" is not a legal term; it is an ethical one. "Copyright infringement" and related terms are legal.

And self-plagiarism has had some serious repercussions as a violation of ethics in academia. It is, of course, in academia that plagiarism really has meaning, and that meaning goes beyond pretending someone else's work is one's own. It is precisely as I have defined it (and, I assure you, it is an area I have dealt with for nearly fifty years). With a little effort, you can find many references and articles on it on the internet. Here's another one to help you get started.

Self-Plagiarism

 

[KeithD]

Calm down, Pilot.

We can do without your snotty histrionics. There was nothing frenzied by my challenge of your post.

"Plagiarism" indeed is a legal term. Looking forward to your citation of legal cases of publishers suing authors for "self-plagiarizing" in subsequent manuscripts.

Where you and others have taken this discussion is in suggesting the authors have limitations that I don't believe they have.

 

[LAHomedog]

I try avoiding it however possible. It can be difficult. The fact is, it's challenging to find new ways to describe cocksucking or an orgasm. I don't have the skills to constantly reinvent the wheel like many authors can.

What I try to do is insert context, such as what's going on in the story. Like if it's a teacher/student story, focus on that in between the sex acts. Talk about how they'd get in trouble, or how neither of them can believe it.

Agree 100%.

 

[lovecraft68]

Not word for word of course, but I have gotten a feeling of Deja vu' when writing and if its strong enough I drift through my titles and see if I get a "shit, I used that in this story" and will alter it somewhat.

I think you can reach a point you've written so much, and so many scenes there will be repetition not only in sex scenes, but in dialogue or even plot and situations that occur in said plot.

Even our subconscious stutters sometimes

 

[Tio_Narratore]

We can do without your snotty histrionics. There was nothing frenzied by my challenge of your post.

"Plagiarism" indeed is a legal term. Looking forward to your citation of legal cases of publishers suing authors for "self-plagiarizing" in subsequent manuscripts.

Where you and others have taken this discussion is in suggesting the authors have limitations that I don't believe they have.

What you believe is of no relevance. Show me the legal definition of plagiarism and the laws that enforce it.

Authors do have limitations, and some of those are found in the contracts they sign with publishers. An author cannot legally sell the same rights to the same work to multiple buyers, and that's just the start. I will look for cases, but until I find any, I have indicated that my statement is held in abeyance.

By the way, my "calm down" didn't suggest you were in a frenzy, merely that you seemed a tad agitated with the issue, given the nature and typography of your responses. You appeared to be very concerned that self-plagiarism had no validity.

In the meantime, I have no objection to your voicing your opinions as a writer of fiction, but you shouldn't make unwarranted assumptions about academic works.

 

[KeithD]

What you believe is of no relevance.

Until you cite backup of your claims on what publishers have done, this defines you. You are, I think, pulling stuff out of your ass to limit writers where they aren't limited.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Until you cite backup of your claims on what publishers have done, this defines you. You are, I think, pulling stuff out of your ass to limit writers where they aren't limited.

Gee, Pilot, sounds like you think farting will cover your ass. Sorry, it just floats off in the ether. After all, you're insisting I meet your challenge with absolutely no reference to the one I laid before you: show us this "legal" definition of plagiarism and the laws that enact it. Show us the cases where it was prosecuted. You know, claiming someone else is farting is a pathetic defense of your own aroma.

I've agreed to shut up about publishers' suits until I find some cases. And if I don't find any, I will retract my comment. How about you do the same? The other readers here may not be interested in a renewed Tio/Pilot brouhaha, and we shouldn't subject them to it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Gee, Pilot, sounds like you think farting will cover your ass. Sorry, it just floats off in the ether. After all, you're insisting I meet your challenge with absolutely no reference to the one I laid before you: show us this "legal" definition of plagiarism and the laws that enact it. Show us the cases where it was prosecuted. You know, claiming someone else is farting is a pathetic defense of your own aroma.

I've agreed to shut up about publishers' suits until I find some cases. And if I don't find any, I will retract my comment. How about you do the same? The other readers here may not be interested in a renewed Tio/Pilot brouhaha, and we shouldn't subject them to it.

Aw, come on, I was just getting my popcorn.

The real issue is that it doesn't need to come down to court cases and cite this, the OP saying self plagiarizing in the sense of have you unwittingly used the same set up, or scene or something else in your story...they're not referring to legalities, just how can you avoid writing something close to what you've already written.

He'd know that if he actually read people's posts or had an idea of literal v figurative, or just wasn't so quick to bully and make the thread about him.


But don't worry, you're not jacking a thread, the majority of people here either have him on actual ignore or just unofficial ignore where they don't read any of his posts or bother quoting him.

 

[jaF0]

Not word for word of course, but I have gotten a feeling of Deja vu' when writing and if its strong enough I drift through my titles and see if I get a "shit, I used that in this story" and will alter it somewhat.

I think you can reach a point you've written so much, and so many scenes there will be repetition not only in sex scenes, but in dialogue or even plot and situations that occur in said plot.

Even our subconscious stutters sometimes

I do that all the time. Shit, I already used that phrase. Then I try to find anther way to say the same thing.


But I kind of like the recurring line thing. Reminds me of Mike Hammer and The Face. No matter what the episode was about, there would be a momentary focus on her, completely out of context.


Or Fantasy Island's 'look Boss, da plane, da plane!!'.

 

[KimGordon67]

That's just that source's opinion. Plagiarism is a legal term. There is no self-plagiarism in legal terms that I'm aware of (and I work in this area).

But perhaps you can cite a self-plagiarism legal case. There could be one that changes the established definition.

It's literally the second item in the list of 'forms of plagiarism' on the Wiki page.

There may be a specific legal definition related to copyright, but usage in other circles is clearly different from what you seem to be very sure of.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's too bad that your source is only about acidemia and not about fiction writers. So, maybe in acidemia they think of it as plagiarism, but reusing passages and things you have written in other works isn't as it is mine and I can't really, no matter how hard you try to tell me I can, steal from myself.

My source was a direct response to an assertion that was not specific, and was wrong.
It's 'self-plagiarism' in any context. The point is whether it matters or not. In academic circles it does matter. In fiction publishing on here, it seems pretty obvious that it really doesn't matter.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I do that all the time. Shit, I already used that phrase. Then I try to find anther way to say the same thing.

Yep - when does something stop being repetition and start becoming a writer's trademark? And before any clown jumps down my throat on that one, I don't mean in the legal ™ sense, I mean in the generalised stylistic sense.

Meanwhile, popcorn, anyone?

 

[KeithD]

Ah, the rabid sick puppy stalker has checked in to do his vulture thing (No, not electricblue66). No problem. Either those writers following the thread have "gotten it," or they haven't.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yep - when does something stop being repetition and start becoming a writer's trademark? And before any clown jumps down my throat on that one, I don't mean in the legal ™ sense, I mean in the generalised stylistic sense.

Meanwhile, popcorn, anyone?

I grew up reading the Destroyer series by Warren Murphy/Richard Sapir...crazy ass martial arts spy shit with a surprising amount of kinky sex, but my parents just thought it was an adventure series .

But in every book-and this series went well over 100 installments even early teenage me noticed they used the same descriptions of him in every book and some other expressions...and I started seeing it as a comfortable sort of catch phrase type thing in a way rather than being redundant.

 

[lovecraft68]

My source was a direct response to an assertion that was not specific, and was wrong.
It's 'self-plagiarism' in any context. The point is whether it matters or not. In academic circles it does matter. In fiction publishing on here, it seems pretty obvious that it really doesn't matter.

I wouldn't limit it to just here, I've read mainstream books where during the course of a series the author has used almost identical passages and dialogue. I mean who are you suing? Yourself? If the 'plagiarized' parts are all written under your name is someone going to report you for stealing from yourself?

Not sure it applies exactly, but there's an author on smashwords and other sites who will write a mom/son story then his next book is identical except its bro/sis...I'm talking same exact set up, almost identical sex scenes, just switching pronouns

I wonder how he sells books, like the readers are that okay with same old same old?

 

[KimGordon67]

I wouldn't limit it to just here, I've read mainstream books where during the course of a series the author has used almost identical passages and dialogue. I mean who are you suing? Yourself? If the 'plagiarized' parts are all written under your name is someone going to report you for stealing from yourself?

Not sure it applies exactly, but there's an author on smashwords and other sites who will write a mom/son story then his next book is identical except its bro/sis...I'm talking same exact set up, almost identical sex scenes, just switching pronouns

I wonder how he sells books, like the readers are that okay with same old same old?

.

TBH, I don't know why it's such an issue in academic writing. I just know that it is.

 

[Bramblethorn]

.

TBH, I don't know why it's such an issue in academic writing. I just know that it is.

I'd assume because publication count is often used as a measure of productivity. Some places it's vital for tenure, so there's incentive to milk a paper for all it's worth.

In fiction self-plagiarism is self-correcting: if it pisses off readers you'll pay for it, if it doesn't there isn't a problem. Not so much in academia.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I think of it as recycling, reorganizing and refining ideas and outlines. Sometimes I find that one story works for this to later realize that it works better for this other thing... and there are times where I find out that they work with both.

However, I always look forward to make the end result as something that is not a carbon copy of a previous work.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Bec repeated a subject at university as she had to drop it for work reasons. One of the notes for her readmission was "You cannot submit a previously graded work, or that significantly plagiarised your previous work."

I'll have a large coke with my popcorn, thanks.

 

[Trionyx]

I definitely reuse similar wording for similar activities across stories. Especially around explicit sex scenes, the connotation of specific words or phrases can make or break the scene, IMO, and I wouldn't pick poor ones merely because I used up good ones in a previous story.

I find that I’ve used similar descriptions of sexual activity in more than one story. One of my favorite positions is cowgirl and I tend to use it a lot in my stories. I’ll need to work on a bit more variety, I guess

 

[KeithD]

I’ll need to work on a bit more variety, I guess

No, you don't, if you don't want to. Don't let those pulling stuff out of their asses limit your writing choices.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I do like the notion of acidemia; where were you when Dr. Tim dropped out?

By the way, it is possible to steal from yourself; it usually comes under the rubric of 'embezzlement.'

It is, however, a major mistake to think of plagiarism as 'stealing.' In academia (and perhaps acidemia as well), the issue is not about taking someone else's work; it is about presenting work as original when it isn't. The rules for using your own previously published work are the same as for using the work of others: you are required to cite it. It is not uncommon to find in an academic article phrases like "as I noted in an earlier paper . . ." followed by a quote or paraphrase of the author's previous work. It is particularly important in publishing works since most journals require that submissions be original.

The same rules may not fully apply in fiction, but they do in published fiction: if you re-used your own work in a new piece for a different publisher, the original publisher is likely to sue you and your new house. Of course, reviewers will note your lack of creativity and readers may become bored with your repetitiveness.

Plagiarism really has nothing to do with stealing and everything to do with identifying and acknowledging where words, information, ideas, interpretations, and analyses come from.

Funny, yet how do you steal from yourself. What yours is yours until you either give it away, sell it, or throw it in the trash. Taking some income, that you earned and putting it somewhere else may be tax evasion but it's not embezzlement.

Embezzlement refers to corporate/company assets that are misused or taken for your own personal use.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

My source was a direct response to an assertion that was not specific, and was wrong.
It's 'self-plagiarism' in any context. The point is whether it matters or not. In academic circles it does matter. In fiction publishing on here, it seems pretty obvious that it really doesn't matter.

Okay. But. As a writer I use some passages over and over again changing the names to protect the innocent. (Psst, I don't this is just an example) And even if I did, whose going to call me out on it? Readers? Doubt it. And it's not a crime as Keith said earlier. Plagiarism is a criminal term. Using my own words is not a crime.